465gs is too low for MSV

100 Night Elf Druid
13665
So I leveled to 90 first week of MOP. My gs at that time was 463 as a healer (on another toon).
we did fine and cleared 4/5 on our first week of raiding. Now I leveled another alt disc/shadow priest and suddenly I am being turned down by pugs when I try to run MSV.

They tell me your gs is too low and we want someone with 480gs minimum. Well, dear raid leader, if you are going to take people because of their gs even if they don't have enchants or gems. This is absurd.

When it was 2 weeks after release of MOP most had 460 / 465 gs and it was good for MSV now if you don't have 480 or above you can' t go.

I ran LFR this week oly 2 I coud run based on my GS again, and I didn't win crap even used my elder charms tokens. If I buy a tailoring robe and dark moon card = 18,000g I don't have much gold why shoul I spend 20k so I can enter a raid that was designed for people wearing blues.

I think Blizzard should remove stupid gs
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
The only way to "remove GS" is to "remove stats".
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100 Troll Rogue
21875
Pug requirements are a social problem, Blizzard cannot prevent pug leaders from using whatever screen they want when creating thier pugs.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
12/10/2012 06:28 PMPosted by Catbite
They tell me your gs is too low and we want someone with 480gs minimum. Well, dear raid leader, if you are going to take people because of their gs even if they don't have enchants or gems. This is absurd.


Nobody is turning you down because of your gear and then accepting people with no enchants or gems. If this is happening, you don't want to join that guy's raid anyway.

In any case, the reason people ask for inflated gear levels is precisely because they don't want someone's freshly blued out alt joining the group when they could get a raiding character instead, not because they think you have to have full 496s to defeat MSV.
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1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
I think 470 for hof/terrace is too HIGH.

my lock alt is doing more dps in msv than I see people do when im in terrace/heart of fear, and he cant even do those yet due to ilvl.

I see people in 496 boe epics doing 30k dps, makes me sad.
Edited by Aeliel on 12/10/2012 6:35 PM PST
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
I wouldnt take you purely based on your use of GS being so important.
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90 Tauren Druid
12115
So I leveled to 90 first week of MOP. My gs at that time was 463 as a healer (on another toon).
we did fine and cleared 4/5 on our first week of raiding.


This is exceptional - not the norm. In my experience, 476 is about a comfortable gear level for the whole raid where the content is a challenge but beatable by "casual" players. To do it in 463 gear your whole team needs to play very well, with good awareness, quick reflexes, and thorough understandings of your character. None of those are attributes commonly found in pugs.
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100 Troll Rogue
17115
Not very many people play their freshly dinged alt as well as they play their main, taking someone in blues at this point is a bigger gamble then someone fully gemmed and enchanted at 480 ilvl.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10695
gearscore/ilevel requirements of groups are reflective of what the group thinks they can get not the bare minimum the instance requires. MSV was cleared in blues, it can obviously be done in 5man gear. But if you can get someone with 509s why would you take someone with 463s?

This is why the requirement always goes up over time, as the available pool of people have higher and higher average gear leaders have higher and higher requirements to increase chances of success. Pugs are typically about farming not progression and wipes are generally considered unacceptable and every time you wipe you run the risk of people leaving. The further you get in the instance the less likely you are to be able to find a replacement.
Edited by Zachfu on 12/10/2012 7:42 PM PST
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90 Troll Hunter
11450
On Illidan, most MSV want 475+ and most HOF/TOES clears want 485+. The raids could be done with less gear, but they aren't.

If you don't like this, the solution is to run your own pug.
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100 Human Paladin
aus
20645
GS = gearscore. Its not the same thing as ilvl.

But pugs always overestimate GS to compensate for bads. I remember being told I did not have high enough GS to do a raid I had already cleared on that alt.

As others have said, Don't like it then start your own raid.
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90 Human Paladin
15450
I still remember back in BC pugs requiring healers with 2,000 healing power for Kara. Which is ironic, since a fully Kara geared healer will only have 1,500 healing power. I don't think I was even close to 2,000 healing power when we entered MH.
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90 Dwarf Warlock
15195
LFM Firelands normal, must be 90, must have 480 GS

I saw this today, and laughed so hard.
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100 Pandaren Priest
19425
At this point in the expansion, a 463 ilvl is also a possible sign of neglect. Where's your valor gear? LFR? Even conquest gear? What have you been doing for 3 months?

Now, it's perfectly legit to have a character that recently hit 90 and got geared up, but when a majority of other players are ahead, the knee-jerk response is to take one of them and not you. Possible ways to step around that barrier:
Form your own group, or get in a guild run.
Admit your ilvl to a pug, but tip it in your favor by knowing all the normal mode boss mechanics.
Know what dps you can pull on a long fight with some movement, offer to be a standby replacement to someone who gets in the run but ends up underperforming.
Give it a few weeks of Sha/LFR/charms, 1/6 chance at loot means you aren't guaranteed to get things right away.

I do think it's silly that HoF LFR has a 470 ilvl requirement, but oh well. You can try to bypass that by buying a valor item, enter the queue, and then immediately sell the item for your vp back.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
8505
My alt gets into runs just fine.. Maybe transfer to Illidan.
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90 Tauren Druid
12115
LFM Firelands normal, must be 90, must have 480 GS

I saw this today, and laughed so hard.


LOL, that's pretty funny. Bearing in mind that when Firelands was live, GS of about 7000 was current (IIRC), so only requiring 480 is lenient.
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