My 5.2 Dream

90 Undead Death Knight
9185
Death Knight forums, I have a dream. A dream where white people, and bla-

Wait, wrong dream. My dream is just that DKs don't suck. And they don't, so that's mostly realized, but they could be better. A lot of that involves other classes, so I'll just touch on some quality of life changes I'd like to see and how they'd affect gameplay, then I'm curious to see what you guys think of 'em.

My first one is Death Coil healing on a percentage of total health instead of as a multiplier. Maybe... 5%? Three Lichbornes and three Death Strikes would heal for 36% in 6GCDs. 7% wouldn't be untoward, either. That'd be an extra Death Strike, which would actually work quite well. I don't think this would change much in a PvE setting, but the heals we're getting now are pretty crap. I think I actually managed to crit for 46K once, which was promptly AA'd down by a cooldowning warrior with one mighty flex of his thews.

Anti-Magic Zone should, in my opinion, be placeable as an AoE silence a la Sunbeam, but also reduce magical damage taken by 75% up to the DK's max health for all allies standing in it. Lasts 12s. This would make AMS a reasonable pick for tanking, allow a distant silence that doesn't require a rune, and give us some choice between AMZ and Lichborne.

Death Siphon needs another buff. It sucks. I'd say another 50%, maybe 100% damage buff if you're feeling ambitious. This would affect exactly nothing in PvE because nobody ever takes it. If it gets buffed to, say, double it's current strength, it'd heal for about 30K per use of a Death Rune if I recall correctly.

Desecrated Ground needs a mighty improvement. If it lasted 4s and made it so your allies couldn't be CC'd while they stood on it, I think that'd be great. I also would enjoy it if it gave you some sort of passive defense, like 25% less damage taken. This would make it an attractive tank talent, since currently all the options kinda suck except RW which is useful for trash.

Chilblains, Death's Advance, and Asphyxiate an unpleasant set of choices. I'd rather give Deaths Advance to Unholy DKs baseline and swap that out for Desecration, then make Asphyxiate function as both a stun and a silence but only DR for stuns. That'd give us some real choices to make without affecting PvE too much. I'd still stick with Asphyxiate as a tank, but a choice between Chilblains and Desecration would be nice.

Remorseless Winter could stand to take a buff. Instead of decreasing the cast timer on it, though, I'd rather make it so that it makes you deal 2.5% more damage per stack of Winter that you have on a target and a base 10% extra damage when activated. This could well get out of hand in AoE fights in PvE - 10 mobs with four stacks of RW already grant you 40% extra damage. On the other hand, in boss fights it'll see less stacks, but it'll still give you the flat 10% damage buff. This would also lend it some use outside of just forcing escape and non-damage/ healing GCDs, since that's kind of mediocre for an end-tier talent anyways.

Soul Reaper needs some sort of additional caveat. Now, if I got my way, it'd rip part of your target's soul clean out and it would have 10% of the target's health while dealing some modicum of damage (perhaps 33% of your weapon damage as Shadowfrost, unaffected by masteries) per hit every second until the debuff expires. If they're below 35%, then it deals the additional damage. If not, then at least you did something cool. I'd also like the timer to be nerfed to 3s, which would be easier to time, but that's just me being whiny, bad, and lazy. It's possible to do as is, just a bit of a chore. I don't see this affecting PvE so much except to possibly lag some people with the amount of ghosts spawning.

The overall gist of the talent changes I'm suggesting would be so you could choose to further become a damage machine or if you want to become beefier and tougher. They're largely PvP oriented, but some of them are pretty useful for PvE, too. Please leave comments and questions, I'm interested to see what other people think!
Edited by Trenk on 12/11/2012 5:04 PM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
6630
Death Siphon needs another buff. It sucks. I'd say another 50%, maybe 100% damage buff if you're feeling ambitious. This would affect exactly nothing in PvE because nobody ever takes it. If it gets buffed to, say, double it's current strength, it'd heal for about 30K per use of a Death Rune if I recall correctly.


I really don't like people asking for buffs to death siphon. The problem isn't that death siphon is weak it is the fact it is overshadowed by another more powerful easier to use heal (death pact). Death siphon actually hits harder then Howling Blast, has a longer range and is Shadowfrost damage. I do not know if it hits harder then death coil or not (death coil does cost runic power anyways). Instead of buffing the damage change it so it costs a rune according to your spec. So Frost is frost rune, unholy unholy rune, blood blood rune. It'll make more wanted after then it currently is. But as I said it is overshadowed and people don't really wish to change their rotations in any fight.

It is overshadowed not under powered.
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90 Undead Death Knight
9185
That's a point I didn't consider. Kinda stupid of me, since that's my main argument about DK PvP - that we're balanced, just other options are overpowered.

Maybe a utility buff, then? For example, it could grant you 10% additional healing taken when you use it? Then it'd be good for tanks.
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90 Human Death Knight
6630
That's a point I didn't consider. Kinda stupid of me, since that's my main argument about DK PvP - that we're balanced, just other options are overpowered.

Maybe a utility buff, then? For example, it could grant you 10% additional healing taken when you use it? Then it'd be good for tanks.


Now your travelling down the right path. I actually think a good player can mix deathsiphon in with their attacks (masterfrost mainly) and can do considerable damage with great heals to back it up. I actually tried it for a while and it wasn't my most damage as it takes a while to get used to it but in some instances having 40yd range spell is quite handy.
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90 Orc Death Knight
9135
I like your dream
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90 Undead Death Knight
9185
Thanks Wolvand, you were in it.
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90 Draenei Shaman
10170
It sounds like your really only looking at dks from a tanking standpoint don't really see where the focus is on pvp maybe as blood but meh. But I''ll add my 2 cents in.

Your Idea on AMZ would never happen we already have a ranged silence in strangulate and Asphyxiate and giving us a mass aoe silence don't think that will ever happen.

I think the idea of DS and DC healing boost is a good one not op bur fair would go along way as a tank or in pvp but not be to overpowered b/c of the long cool down on lich.

DSiph don't know much about it based on the post says its nice dps and ok heal but deathpack heal was always more important b/c you could get a big heal when u needed it aka on demand. The heal would have to be in the area of 40-50k that's one hit in pvp now a days maybe add a lil more of a cool down on it if it heals for that much.

Desecrated Ground needs to be like a freedom for a dk it needs to move with them and prevents cc but cut its length to 5 sec down from 10 it already has a long cooldown 2 mins.

soul reaper needs a boost above the 35% mark what that boost is I don't know maybe u get some added haste or have it do some damage and if targets not dead then u get that rune back or it fills a random depleted rune when it runs its course.

well there's my 2 copper
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90 Undead Death Knight
9185
The thing that'd make giving Death Siphon a 40K+ heal a little rough is that it heals based off how much damage it does at a 1:1 ratio. So 40K damage with 40K healing is an 80K health swing, which would make DKs pretty godmode, especially if they picked up Blood Tap and could drill out two DSi's with normal runes, two out of BTap, two more with Emp Rune Weapon, and a final one out of the final BTap. in quick succession.

Making Desecrated Ground a Freedom ability chafes to me, because it's a cop off of Blessing of Freedom except weaker because it's only five seconds. If it were a patch of un-CC'able earth that also happened to make you more resistant to damage, it'd help our survivability and utility while giving us a serious consideration between that and Remorseless Winter (Provided RW got the changes I asked Santa for).

Soul Reaper's intended to be an execute, so IMO it should stay beneficial only at 35%. The way I suggested it gave it some extra damage, 100% extra weapon damage dealt as Shadowfrost over three seconds, but it still wouldn't be worth using over 35% if you wanted to kill someone.

The AMZ change is mainly for utility, to give the class flavor, and as an emergency CD. Perhaps if it wasn't placeable, that'd be fairer. You're probably right in that another ranged silence, this one AoE, is a bit overtuned.

Just my opinions.
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90 Orc Death Knight
0
And I would like a money tree. :p

I don't know, I think DK is fine just the way it is. I don't know how much more powerful you want to be in relation to the other classes?
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
8990
I agree with Zupan were fine,stop being a baddie
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90 Undead Death Knight
9185
I... Don't see how wanting to change the class a bit makes me a baddie?

I can get liking DKs the way they are, but I don't understand where exactly I said DKs need to get stronger. My main goal was to create some amount of decision on multiple tiers of the talent grid we currently get, not to create some OP God Monster. A lot of what we have right now are very easy picks.

In relation to other classes, I'd like to be a strong but not must-have pick - weaker than the pre-hotfix incarnation of Frost Mages, but slightly tougher than we are right now.

In other news, if I had a money tree, I'd buy Ghostcrawler's position and then hire high ranking arena players to balance PvP for me.
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90 Human Death Knight
13115
I agree mainly with the Death Siphon, RW and Lichborne heal tweaks. I feel as if you thought them through pretty thoroughly.

I just fear that DK survivability buffs will not happen very soon because people like to play Blood in PvP and feel like they're "all that" and feel invincible. Realistically, people who casually BG/Arena in Blood spec ruin it for the people who actually play in the whole rated scene as Frost or Unholy, as intended. I hope before 5.2 launches we get maybe 1 or 2 tweaks to self-healing or survivability, but we'll have to see.
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