Word of Glory useless, thanks Blizz

90 Human Rogue
7915
Wow Primiez and Purebalance hating on Ret as usual - I thought you guys quit the game?

Simple fact is - Ret was balanced around Burst Damage and it's ability to off heal effectively - take one away or reduce either effectiveness dramatically and you un-balance the spec...again

Regardless of what people say - Ret's utility is not that great because it is defensive in nature and no match for all of the short cd offensive abilities many other classes have - Ret's self defenses and control abilities are also pretty ordinary unless they trade something to get something else, where many others have a lot of these things baseline

While I do not agree with Agincourt's constant whining on these forums and they way he constructs his points, i also don't agree with clowns like Primiez and PureBalance flaming Ret's over all - especially when they play classes in much better over all shape than Ret - your bias stinks and if it were up to you there would be no balance in the game, thank god you're not developers.

As much as i hate to say it, in this case I agree with Agincourt's point - if you break Ret's off-healing capacity - you pretty much break it's competativeness in organised pvp...

Originally - they put WoG on a 20sec CD - then they tacked on a cd reduction of 10 secs to a talent and found it still wasn't working (mainly due to Ret's lack of self defense which was completely gutted) so they removed the CD again, and once again Ret was some-what competative - not a completely top tier spec like Locks, DK's, Mages or Warriors - but able to often hold it's own - maybe it's time re-visit Ret's self defenses or make one of it's talent abilities baseline so it gain a little more offensive utility...
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100 Human Paladin
4155
Rets are now expected to use Seal of Insight just to stay alive? LOL.. Yeah, that reduces our damage by 20% which is damage that is already terrible.. Great idea, sparky!!!!!!

This is what Ghostcrawler has reduced RETs to. In order not to die in 15 seconds we have to drop our damage to among the worst in the game. Great job Greg!!!!!
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90 Dwarf Paladin
15400
I don't disagree with Agincourt, but I disagree about how he is going about saying it.
Ret healing is completely broken, there is really no reason to use Word of Glory at all, its a complete waste of Holy Power.
I have decent PvP gear, my Word of Glory today in Battlegrounds healed me and other for an average of 23k, that is of course with 3 Holy Power.
It is very true that pure dps classes can and do heal better than Ret.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11850
Rets are now expected to use Seal of Insight just to stay alive? LOL.. Yeah, that reduces our damage by 20% which is damage that is already terrible.. Great idea, sparky!!!!!!

This is what Ghostcrawler has reduced RETs to. In order not to die in 15 seconds we have to drop our damage to among the worst in the game. Great job Greg!!!!!


Why not? everyone else does.. DKs use deathstrike/presence switch/Lichborne/DC which gimps their dps and they get trained more than Rets... Warriors cant even do that and outside of second wind, they have absolutely no self healing...


Rets don't have Bastion of Glory you imbecile, Prot does. Rets already trade the most for healing. Their healing outside of FoL comes at a direct loss to damage, now you're telling them to lose another 10-15% of their damage to use Seal of Insight too? Get lost.


I was talking about Prot in the second paragraph. I was thinking of Tanks when OP mentioned selfhealing of warriors and DKs...my apologies....
Edited by Elantor on 12/13/2012 7:32 PM PST
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81 Human Warrior
9530
12/13/2012 07:30 PMPosted by Elantor
Why not? everyone else does.. DKs use deathstrike/presence switch/Lichborne/DC which gimps their dps and they get trained more than Rets... Warriors cant even do that and outside of second wind, they have absolutely no self healing...


It pigeonholes us into using Burden of Guilt for our level 30 talent.
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90 Human Priest
3730

RETs pay the "hybrid tax" on damage for the ability to heal. Outside of our cooldowns our damage is horrible. Now we cant even heal oursleves or anyone else, yet the "hybrid tax" on damage remains


Here in the rest of the world, it's not 2008 anymore. It's 2012 (nearly 2013!) and the hybrid tax is long gone.


Eh, we give up things to get healing... usually it's some CC or a cooldown.

It's not like hybrids are rocking the PvE DPS charts.

The "tax" isn't really the same as it used to be, though, hybrids are competitive.
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100 Human Paladin
12715
To be fair, Warriors do more self healing than just about everyone right now.

Second Wind needs a nerf in PvP. It's really that simple.
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90 Human Paladin
14125
You never stop whining, do you? You must enjoy doing it.

I hate to break it to you Agincourt, but Ret is in arguably the most balanced position it has ever been. Yes, we have problems. Every class and spec has problems.

You constantly making use of personal attacks against Blizzard is not going to help. You sounds like a spoiled little brat.

After seeing the series of nerfs they've been giving out to classes lately, I feel compelled to not complain about Retribution.

Then again the lack of heals is so bad that healing in PvP is pretty much an after thought. Like literally using Selfless Healer to heal teammates feels like it does nothing. Can forget about healing yourself, as it feels like a waste of a global cool down. Holy Power is best never used to heal.

I'm seriously starting to wonder if Seal of Insight is the best way to go. That would already nerf the already weak damage we have.
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The way the numbers work is like this:

Prior to 5.1, there was a blanket 15% nerf to healing, and PvP Power worked at half value for all non-percentage healing. Hence with 40% PvP Power, as a geared Ret might have, PvP healing was at 0.85 x 1.2 = 1.02 times what the tooltip would say when you were standing round in SW or Org (so effectively the same value), and for a FoL or 3-point WoG that was very roughly a 36K heal (not counting procs, healing buffs/debuffs, etc.).

Right now, non-healer specs get no healing boost from PvP Power, and the blanket nerf to healing in PvP is now up to 30%. That makes the multiplier for Rets (and other hybrids) 0.7 x 1.0 = 0.7 times the tooltip. A 36K FoL/WoG is now thus a 25K heal (this means a 100K FoL if you get a crit with full SH stacks - not likely, but what people remember). Now, toss in a Mortal Strike effect and we're at a 19K heal, and even with wings and trinket a best-case FoL barely reaches 100K, and everything else is barely noticeable.

I'm not sure about spriests, but i'm pretty sure that the combination of these two nerfs has over-nerfed other hybrids' healing.
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90 Human Paladin
10430
If this is not an over nerf, then the obvious message is that "If your not a healer, you shouldn't be healing". Now the gut reaction for those of us w/healing spec's is : "We need compensated! Give us something else!"

Unfortunately, this isn't so easy. You have examine if theirs an alternative strat with our current kit that could be the method Blizzard is trying to go for.

Being objective, even as someone who isn't PvPing right now, is difficult for me. I tend to feel that (from a paladin perspective) the remaining toolkit is almost completely defensive in nature. In pvp that generally means using X to provide a cushion for you to regroup(ie: get behind a pillar or obstruction) recover(ie:heal) get your cooldowns back for another pass at the opponent.

I don't know honestly. I guess I'll watch and see what Blizzard does next, and continue reading threads.
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100 Human Paladin
4155
Blizz took away Ret sustained damage because we could heal. Now, we are left with no sustained damage and no healing. Warrier, Warlocks, Spriest, DKs eat us up
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100 Worgen Mage
16840
What balance you talking about?
RETs pay the "hybrid tax" on damage for the ability to heal. Outside of our cooldowns our damage is horrible. Now we cant even heal oursleves or anyone else, yet the "hybrid tax" on damage remains

So the results are that DKs and Warriors do nearly twice the damge and Warriors do better healing. Is that balance?


Lol@Hybrid tax, I got pure taxed.
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90 Human Paladin
10430
Like I've always said, it's not a hybrid tax...
... it's a 'Recount' revenue redistribution to the other dps classes in your raid.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8860
To be fair, Warriors do more self healing than just about everyone right now.

Second Wind needs a nerf in PvP. It's really that simple.


/thread
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90 Undead Priest
3465
You know you guys are getting trolled right?
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14 Blood Elf Priest
0
Wanna heal?

Roll a real healing spec.
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90 Orc Warrior
10880
To be fair, Warriors do more self healing than just about everyone right now.

Second Wind needs a nerf in PvP. It's really that simple.


It really doesn't. Battle fatigue and mortal wounds both affect Second Winds healing-- I'd say with both debuffs it heals for 1.5-1.8% healing per/sec. The numbers i see in my combat log show around 5-7k HP/s, and that's with 395k buffed hit points from commanding shout.

There shouldn't be any reason you can't out DPS it, especially in 3s with an additional DPS on us.
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90 Draenei Paladin
13225
my wog still crits 80k

dunno what you're on about buddy.
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90 Worgen Mage
12010
12/13/2012 09:20 AMPosted by Agincourt
WOG is now healing me for 15k with 3 Holy Power. Warriors now do more self healing than Rets. Thanks for the love Ghostcrawler!!!!!!!!!


To lazy to read 3 pages atm so I apologize if this has been pointed out...

I hear Warriors don't have an immunity bubble.... confirm/deny.
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