Frost Mage Burst at High Rating pvp

90 Night Elf Druid
9175
EDIT: As of 12-12-12 frostbomb has been nerfed in what seems like an appropriate way. Seems more counterable now so *should* be fine.

I hear many people say that frost mage burst is not too high or that competent players can simply counter it with ease. Well I just recently stumbled upon this example that highlights how deep freeze / frostbomb burst is, in my eyes, pretty overpowered: Top players in 3s get completely overwhelmed by the burst put out by a single Frostmage who is running...with two healers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA3BaLg9aN8

Here is the full 3 hours of streaming games with some more games that Reckful, Nadagast, and Toez play against the Double healer + frostmage setup. If you have the time, it would be prudent to watch a few other games they played against with other teams before jumping to conclusions.

http://www.twitch.tv/nadagastt/b/346753517

Forward to around 1hour 30 mins to see the matches against the rank one double healer + frostmage setup.
Make sure to keep an eye on Nada's recount.

The burst against Toez might could partially be an issue with resto shamans being too "zergable" (cough totems while silenced), however it looks to me like frost mages simply have more burst in opportune times (and more pvp damage in general) when you compare it with any other game from the 3 hours of footage. Another factor is that Jahmilli has two healers so maybe he overextends and that allows greater damage output. Even with these factors taken into account, I feel that the frequency and magnitude of frostmage burst exhibited here is far too much.

I just wanted to get this out there that the frostmage "nerfs" seem to have done nothing. The pvp on-use trinket change possibly made them even better due to lining up with deep freeze. Frostbomb seems to be the main issue and it hasn't been properly addressed by reducing the burst potential associated with it on the main target.

This is my humble view on the situation. Tell me what you think. Please be constructive and provide support for any argument made.

Here is their team, which is currently at Rank 1 in the best US battlegroup:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/arena/tichondrius/3v3/the%20time%20is%20now/
Edited by Vaelseir on 12/12/2012 8:38 AM PST
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90 Orc Warrior
5950
holy smokes!
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90 Orc Warlock
4505
wow

My take...
too much CC
too much instant CC
too much burst
too low constant damage
too much healing
warriors, hunter, mages dominating arena but really every class is too powerful. At least my spec needs time to get fury. But when I do they're dead.
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90 Troll Mage
15140
honestly it's too much CC from the healers with mage burst makes it stupid

But it's not like these guys are bad players lol

Also I've seen people play jahmili's team a lot, takes them forever to kill something.

Not saying it's balanced but w/e
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90 Night Elf Druid
9175
Well that got nerfed quickly XD
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90 Night Elf Druid
9175
wow

My take...
too much CC
too much instant CC
too much burst
too low constant damage
too much healing
warriors, hunter, mages dominating arena but really every class is too powerful. At least my spec needs time to get fury. But when I do they're dead.


I would agree except that I think hunters are fine as they are now. Fix other stuff and then we can get back to maybe buffing up MM / SV later in like 5.3 or something. That is my take on the priority. BM doesn't one shot players anymore from what I've seen, and if they still do, it's counterable with pet CC
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wow

My take...
too much CC
too much instant CC
too much burst
too low constant damage
too much healing
warriors, hunter, mages dominating arena but really every class is too powerful. At least my spec needs time to get fury. But when I do they're dead.


he didn't mention a warlock because he is a warlock.
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The problem with double healer is that the CC is forever. I played double healer warrior and as the healer I was cced 95% of the game. WE lost 3 times to the team.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9175
12/12/2012 08:24 AMPosted by Ovenmitz
no, at least one of those two specs needs to be buffed immediately. they'd take very minor changes to fix.


I understand where you are coming from (having played enhance / fire mage all of cata), but realistically you can't change too many things at once.

If they nerf down a bunch of top classes, they can't at the same time buff classes that are lower down, or they will essentially switch. They are taking moderate steps and seeing how the pvp at each stage of nerfs and buffs is which I think is better than "kneejerk" reactions in overbuffing and overnerfing.

Unless you have really conservative changes, of course. What specificially were you thinking? Im curious :)
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90 Night Elf Druid
9175
12/12/2012 08:33 AMPosted by Dgina
The problem with double healer is that the CC is forever. I played double healer warrior and as the healer I was cced 95% of the game. WE lost 3 times to the team.


Well in this situation the mage was actually just soloing the healer. But with the new nerf to frostbomb+ fire blast glyph it probably won't be as crazy as seen in this video.

I noted the new change as an edit at the top of my post. I guess I'll bold it

But yes I agree healer CC is too high. I honestly don't need to be able to pounce out of displacer beast...
Edited by Vaelseir on 12/12/2012 8:37 AM PST
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90 Orc Warlock
13870
12/12/2012 08:19 AMPosted by Raw
he didn't mention a warlock because he is a warlock.


He didn't mention a warlock because we've been hit a lot harder than warriors, mages or hunters by the nerf bat. Chaos Wave nerf+on use trinket nerf really hit us hard.

And honestly, those warrior and mage nerfs did not target the problems. They're still both going to do ridiculous burst compared to other classes.
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12/12/2012 09:03 AMPosted by Vreivai
he didn't mention a warlock because he is a warlock.


He didn't mention a warlock because we've been hit a lot harder than warriors, mages or hunters by the nerf bat. Chaos Wave nerf+on use trinket nerf really hit us hard.

And honestly, those warrior and mage nerfs did not target the problems. They're still both going to do ridiculous burst compared to other classes.


on use trinket is a nerf for everybody.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9175
12/12/2012 09:25 AMPosted by Raw


He didn't mention a warlock because we've been hit a lot harder than warriors, mages or hunters by the nerf bat. Chaos Wave nerf+on use trinket nerf really hit us hard.

And honestly, those warrior and mage nerfs did not target the problems. They're still both going to do ridiculous burst compared to other classes.


on use trinket is a nerf for everybody.


It is without a doubt a harder nerf for warlock, but that is beside the point, demo and destro still do fine.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9175
12/12/2012 09:03 AMPosted by Vreivai
he didn't mention a warlock because he is a warlock.


He didn't mention a warlock because we've been hit a lot harder than warriors, mages or hunters by the nerf bat. Chaos Wave nerf+on use trinket nerf really hit us hard.

And honestly, those warrior and mage nerfs did not target the problems. They're still both going to do ridiculous burst compared to other classes.


You also received a substantial buff in the form of undispellable Dark Soul.
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90 Orc Hunter
10120
12/11/2012 08:09 PMPosted by Fuzungatu
hunter


12/11/2012 08:09 PMPosted by Fuzungatu
dominating arena


how bout that
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90 Orc Warlock
13870
12/12/2012 09:31 AMPosted by Vaelseir
You also received a substantial buff in the form of undispellable Dark Soul.


However, auras were nerfed into uselessness.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
1990

he didn't mention a warlock because he is a warlock.

http://www.crossladder.com/arena/stats/

Warlocks are dropping fast and hard, down almost 2% in 3v3 since the 5.1 nerfs + hotfix nerfs.
next week they will be below dks, who claim to be one of the worst classes in pvp.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
6700
never imagined double heal mage would ever be viable yet alone win in 30 sec's to rank 1 players lol.
Edited by Gönorrhea on 12/12/2012 7:01 PM PST
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