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Yeah, I tank and it's all I do. This xpac has been quite an interesting one with regards to that.
Now I"m not going to discuss our moves, that's not what this is about, so let's not talk about how druids have more self healing than pallies now, or that you think monks should (insert valid yet irrelevant opinion here), I'm here to display my assessment of the new base mechanics, with emphasis to hit/exp necessity versus efficacy, and see if my understanding is as complete and purposeful as possible, because that's what my raiders have come to rely on from me, and most of this seems quite strange and unusual.
What be so strange and unusual bout Moppy tankin, Mandachuva?
Well, I hit 90 on my DK first, good old DK doesn't seem to suffer at all from being below cap. I'm sitting at 486 equipped right now and with 1.8% exp and about 4% hit, there's nothing I can't handle, yet when I leveled my pally, I was forging every damn point from 86 on up. I had such a hard time generating threat that I ran harsh words for a while and essentially pissed my holy power away between taunts just to get them punching me in the face instead of some overzealous mage/lock/hunter.
I mean let's face it- Deadcrab and the system development gang mixed it up on us quite a bit, fellas. I thought everything would be gravy when they buffed threat to 500%, but apparently it is indeed quite far from gravy, my friends. Apparently this isn't a delicious treat at all! Apparently we need to be sure all of our little attacks land now.
Here's my understanding of hit/exp thus far:
Hit- Reduces your chance to miss with autoattacks, and most physical abilities. Hit rating also reduces the chance to miss (usually at faster gradient) with spells. I am certain all tanking classes have a few moves that fall under the 'spell' category, but my understanding of which specifically is incomplete.
Expertise- Reduces your chance to be dodged/parried by enemies. Most resources speak of a soft cap which is a term I believe adapted (originally) to illustrate the point at which all hits will land while standing behind a mob/boss, and yet people refer to it within forum posts I've lurked in with regards to tanking stats, which I don't understand, because if it isn't facing me, I'm not holding aggro, and if I'm not holding aggro, I'm not tanking.
Something that used to be true, and I'm curious if it still is: Back in the day, if a mob parried you, it reset the auto attack timer. That is to say, when you got parried, you got swung on. This could be tracked back in the day and it could be devastating. Is this still the way? So much has changed since vanilla, maybe NPC parry doesnt generate a free attack. Hell, maybe armor is a true pool now instead of legs / chest / all-the-rest.
But that's not what I'm trying to cover here.
Let's dig in to my current assessment of tanking classes and how I feel they ought to prioritize their hit/exp ratings. i.e. The Gameplan.
Edited by Mandachuva on 12/12/2012 5:00 AM PST
7.5/7.5% Is beneficial, but not of the utmost importance. I find that rage is still generated quite nicely and I might miss out on my primal fury from auto attacks, I can still (and do rather often) achieve it from mangle. Currently it is my opinion that although higher hit means more rage and thus more savage defense(dodge) uptime, mastery might provide an equally effective model for consistent physical damage mitigation, especially since there seem to be alot of 3+ second stuns being thrown out in PVE this xpac. Typically I dump more range into frenzied regen than savage defense and I'm always able to have enough rage as lacerate/thrash/berserk all have me staying in mangles, and keeping weakened blows up means aside from bosses I don't really worry about anything but magic. Also, I hardly care for Tooth and Claw when I read the tooltip. Does the damage-on-next reduction scale with my attack power? The new rage model has me wondering if I should just take maul off my bars altogether. I have absolutely no problems with threat, and if my faerie fire is missing, I haven't noticed.
0/0% I'm probably gonna get flamed for this, for saying that DKs don't need any or that absolutely none is fine (Of course you will get more from gear, but the implication is that you dont need to try to get any), but it's true to me. Death strike always heals and cannot be parried. Rune strike requires no expertise, only hit. Don't know if its classified as a spell, but I don't ever seem to miss with my rune strike. I'm looking at a vaults log now in which i had 540 hits, 22 crits, and 16 misses. 562/16 ain't bad, I've always got blood taps when i need them, and disregarding any hit and exp means I'm able to maintain a near perfect (2.5:1) parry to dodge ratio and I'm sitting at almost 150% mastery raid buffed. Seems as though the cata model has survived through in this class.
7.5/15% It is my opinion that paladins are the hardest class to tank right now as relates to threat generation, and similarly the class one class a constant and rigid hit/exp requirement, even as one scales with gear. I regularly find myself demanding that old satirical diatribe in vent "WAIT FOR FIVE SUNDERS," when I lose aggro 2-3 GCD's into a pull and decide to follow my taunts with some hands (HoP on casters, Hos on physical) to assure the taunt wasn't wasted. There's just no other way it seems. Perhaps with the right weapon (like a Kilrak stuffed with str gems) I could pour out enough damage to let more attacks miss and thus afford more mitigation, but one would still miss out on holy power by doing so. And lets face it, between the shield slaps and the self heals, holy power is where it's at.
7.5/7.5% Ah yes the other shieldbearer, and certainly my favorite of the two so far in this expansion, seeing as how I regard their hit/exp allotment as identical to that of the druid.... which is to say that I don't adhere to 7.5/7.5, if anything i just take whatever hit I get from my gear and maybe add a bit more exp, I think my warrior's currently at around 3/5% Does my shield slap miss sometimes? Yeah, it does, but I don't care. Devastate means more shots at it, and passive mitigation means more revenge procs. Shield block is cool, but shield barrier is godlike. I neglect my heroic strike nearly as often as maul, only giving a damn about ultimatum when it gives me a cleave to throw at trash.
7.5/15% Yeah, there's a new kid in town, and he is odd. Where the DK seems anachronistic in it's potential within the old cata model, the monk seems the most radically new, nearly all the resources you find say that you need absolutely no mitigation at all beyond what you cant avoid getting and to even reforge away from dodge/parry/mastery, which is absolutely true. You dont even gotta worry about the dodge/parry ratio for returns as long as you stay kicking them in the face. So far I find the hit/exp requirements for monks to be just as immutably high as the paladin's, although easier to achieve. Hell let's face it, that re-purposed rogue gear just simply has more of it, which is good because you actually need it to survive, not merely to hold aggro. Gotta land those crits for elusive stacks and so you can stay smearing your feet with ox droppings, and nearly everything else in the rotation starts or ends with a move landing.
I digress. Brewmaster is fresh and new to me but I'm gonna cut this short because this thread isn't about me fleshing out a rotation. I hope this information was useful to those in need and I hope anyone more knowledgeable than I in any of these classes will enlighten me where I am mistaken, or perhaps point out alternative routes to the same goal.
Edited by Mandachuva on 12/12/2012 4:58 AM PST
Im a little curious of what is the intent behind all this. It's basically info that can be found anywhere, with your "personal" imput.
don't get me wrong, but what's really the point here?
Saying A or B without clearing even the regular content will make a lot of people take your opinion with a grain of salt.
It hasn't been that way since the end of WotLK.
Also, expertise soft cap is, for most tanking purposes, not a thing. Unless your attacks can't be parried (Pallies and DKs have a few moves like this), or some of your attacks are spells (So they need 15% spell hit, which is boosted by expertise, to land), expertise has the same value from 0% to 15%.
Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
I wanted some input from other tanks, the offtank in my guild looks to me for guidance and with the community on my server being half elitists and half failtrolls i figured id put everything i know on a thread and see how much of it is correct.
I guess I also want to see everyone's take on all of it, i personally am a bit nonplussed at how much everything's changed mechanically.
The reason I elaborated and expanded on so much and added my own personal experiences was so that anyone stumbled upon this seeking information rather than offering their own could potentially use or adapt this for their own purposes.
It's been ages since I've posted on the wow forums, and I'm just trying to both look for input and offer some at the same time, that's all.
Pretty much. Hit/exp give smoother RP gen from white hits, and of course no loss from missed Rune Strikes, but it's not something that's really going to cause a problem either way.
I went for some accuracy for more dps and because dodge and parry are the most boring stats in the game.
In the far off days, your chance to be parried was twice your chance to be dodged, and Expertise affected both Parry and Dodge at the same time. For example, at 0 Expertise, you had a 7.5% chance to be dodged and a 15% chance to be parried. At 7.5 Expertise, you had a 0% chanced to be dodged and a 7.5% chance to be parried. Thus, Expertise was twice as effective from 0-7.5 as it was from 7.5-15. That's why there was a "soft cap."
I'm told this is no longer the case. However, it really doesn't matter as outside of heroic-tier raiding you can slam your face on the keyboard with 400k HP and tank everything there is to tank with no threat or survivability issues.
Edited by Descretoria on 12/12/2012 10:43 AM PST
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