Edited by Chawana on 12/19/12 12:39 AM (PST)
Edit: I am editing this post as a whole. a "-" will be placed by the altered, or added paragraphs/sentences.
I'll start by addressing why I feel the looting system is flawed. Here we go.
Reason 1: People can get an item twice, thrice, even 4-5-6-7 times. Why is this bad? If we had normal looting, they would simply pass on the item, and let someone without one get it. Basically, loot that someone COULD use is being vendored, because this faulty loot system keeps giving certain other people an item they already have.
-Solution: Remove items which a player already has from the loot table. Make an exception for any weapon which can be dual wielded to 2.
-Reason 2: The chances of getting loot are spread unevenly. Some people are lucky, others are not. This is a part of how the game has always worked, but I do not think the gap should be so large.
-Solution: Make the random numbers being generated more intelligent. Take into account the loot/gold ratio of the player, and give items accordingly. Perhaps a 5% extra hidden chance at loot (could be visible if you'd like people to show off their unluckiness) for every gold bag they receive. Players should have an equal chance at gear, and right now RNG is too discrepant...which it's meant to be, but i feel as though it is TOO discrepant the way it is now.
Reason 3: People are switching specs for fights so that the auto-loot-generator will give them spec-specific loot. I cannot remember exactly, but in DS LFR, didn't the rolls there base off what you queued as? I could be wrong.
-Solution: Add an option to receive loot for a certain spec. In this sense, going back to DS looting would be horrible. DPS would get tank gear over tank gear. So I take back any suggestion of reverting to DS loot.
-Why does this need to be fixed? 3 healing a 6 healer fight is easy for some fights, but a pain in the neck for others. This is a flaw no matter how you look at it, and is easily fixed. People are getting off-spec loot anyway, why not keep the raid the way it's supposed to be?
-Reason 4: No Off-spec gear. Bonus rolls were a great thing, but I feel as though the above has already covered this. Simply editing this section to reflect that.
-Reason 5: The excitement factor. Seeing loot drop was always fun, but so is simply getting an item directly after the boss dies. Getting gold bags from ALL the raid bosses in a week severely diminishes a lot of the excitement.
-This Isn't even about comparing it to DS LFR looting anymore. No, loot was never guaranteed. Some people have always been luckier than others. But as stated earlier, the way loot is handed out is far too discrepant, and a little messy when it comes to getting items you already have. (i have 3 unused tier shoulders in my bags. :P)
-The solutions I proposed have been edited into the reasons. I don't think Blizzard likes to go back and forth, as it is both a waste of man-power, and looks bad for the game as a whole.
Adding a few features to reduce the randomness even a little, and to remove doubles of loot appear to be the best solution.
-If duplicate is won, you get gold, or it re-rolls for you.
-Tier pieces would not count as duplicates, or have a similar idea to dual wielding weapons.
-Place gear inside the bags with the gold. Gold would always be there, but items would be optional.
2. Duplicate drops will give an option to re-roll.
3. Duplicates give an option to trade it for a token, or keep it.
4. Duplicates have 3 options: DE, token trade, and keep. (a combination)
-If detecting duplicates is too much of a hassle...simply give everyone the option to DE their item. (with a confirmation box, of course.)
edit: would just like to say how hilarious it is, that after making this post, i've gone about 23/24ish kills without an item...only to get a 5th pair of shoulders off the boss which has not dropped my weapon for the 17th time in a row. Think i'm done with LFR. :\
Edited by Chawana on 12/14/12 4:44 PM (PST)
EDIT: for those reading this post now, most of the responses up till page 2/3 were from the pre-edited version.
alright, the chances would be higher than they are now. : \
2) Is true of every form of gearing. Dungeons. Regular raids. If the same crap drops every week...It just does. Vendorstrike anyone?
3)This is fair, it's cheating the system. If people want offspec gear, let them do that task in a raid. I like the idea of being able to change specs to use the coin on it, but they could add another button to it for like "Offspec coin flip" when you use it.
4) See above. I feel like you should do your thing if you want that equipment. That's how it's always worked, but since coins are new they could offset that. Maybe some kind of checklist for what gear you want to get could be enabled, but that might be too confusing. And if it existed, I'm sure a lot of people who stop queuing as a tank or healer...
5) I dunno if that's really LFR's fault entirely. Gear comes harder and faster now, so no upgrade is as special as they once were.
Making the items unique wouldn't stop you from getting nothing, just in a new and interesting way.
Not true. There were some people who did that but due to a mix of people passing on gear they didn't need and just asking politely when someone did get something they didn't need I'd come out of LFR every week with 2-4 pieces of gear for each of my alts.
I think maybe they should just reward an elder charm in lieu of an identical item, as long as you have it equipped during the encounter (to prevent people from stock-piling every single item for bonus elder charms). That way, obviously if you win an item you already have, you just get it another chance at loot instead.
Or maybe you have the option to sell it or exchange it to a vendor for an elder charm, or keep it, your choice.
Other than that I really don't have a problem with the LFR system, even if I have been horribly unlucky with the tier gear :)
Thanks for stopping me from reading the rest of your post.
Going to blunt, illogical assumptions and changing my argument as a whole....well, this is the general forums. It's pretty easy to simply regurgitate what you see other people say, isn't it?
This happens to a lot of people from how I understand it, but i went 10/10 in the 470 raids this week on my alt, with all of the bosses dropping gold. It's as if i'm rollin against 25 people on every item that drops, and losing all the rolls. Could this happen with the old loot system? It could...that's the nature of RNG. But at least that system isn't as hopeless.
Getting gold after a boss kill has ALWAYS happened. Getting a gold bag is simply getting nothing. Those who say "gold is better than nothing" are daft sheep.
Perhaps I've been spared by not having you guys reply to my threads in the past. You would rather present one of the million variables, rather than see the issue as a whole, and then argue semantics.
Or, simply say what everyone else says.
If anyone else wishes to reply, do so. I've come to the understanding, as usual, that Blizzard has thought about the idea a lot, and will either decide to, or to not change the loot system. They don't want to flip-flop, so my hopes aren't very high for this change.
I had a much higher chance of getting something i needed on any of my characters while in DS.
Sure, there were some jerks who would ignore you, but sometimes they actually needed it.
After 6 lfr no gear,all gold whats the incentive to keep doing them? I can make gold farming,even the bonus rolls doesn`t help it seems.Would be nice if loot (not identical to what you already have)did drop more often than what it does.
The thing is, there would ALWAYS be loot dropping, and not only for those who are favored by RNG. Yes, rolls are taken into account but not against the entire raid.
Basically, the point of this thread is that the chances of getting something you already have, or nothing, is much higher than it used to be.
Also, the longer a raid is out, you'd arguable get more loot on your alts when running these raids, as some people would simply be going for specific items.
You mean when groups fell apart due to in-fighting over loot? When players who didn't get the drop they wanted would wipe the group? When people would get kicked because they rolled need on something that someone else didn't think they needed?
Yeah, thanks but no thanks.
Edited by Chawana on 12/14/12 11:29 AM (PST)
Would also add to my last sentence: As loot currently is, it doesn't matter how geared the rest of the raid is. Your chances at getting an item is still...I don't know, but according to my experience, less than 15%. It seems to only get worse as you need a specific item, but that's the same for both systems; although i feel it less so with the old system.
People still grief raids. Your idea of that looting system is incredibly narrow-minded.
It wasn't nearly as bad as you're presenting it to be...but then again, getting drama-queens in your raid is also RNG, so go figure. Some of us have better luck with different types of RNG.
If it wasn't I seriously doubt blizzard would have put the time into coming up with a new loot system.
Now, is the new loot system perfect? Not even close imho but it's a good start and an improvement over the old system.
In general I think it would be more productive to come up with suggestions to improve the new loot system than trying to get them to scrap it and go back to the old one.
Here's a thread I made to suggest one such improvement (didn't get much of a response but I think it's a solid suggestion).
To add to that I think they need to let you pick which spec you want your rolls to be applied to.