Stam vs Mastery, Warrior tank

90 Gnome Warrior
4555
Posted in the warrior threads with no replies,

I am thinking of doing the former.

I have lots of options if I get hit hard and need an oh crap button, but would rather be hit less hard most of the time.

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Mastery > Hit/Exp cap (7.5%) > Parry > Dodge - This option feels comfortable with the stamina naturally present on gear - better against melee heavy encounters.
OR
Stamina > Mastery > Hit/Exp cap (7.5%) > Parry > Dodge - This option sacrifices some mastery for stamina, which will favor encounters with non-mitigatable damage.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
4850
I just do 5mans, so I like stamina. If I don't stack it then more often then not I'll join a GIP where I zone in and someone says "our old tank had 100k more than you".

Even with stamina stacking, that is still true though...so...nothing to do but ask for a warrior stamina buff?
Edited by Faliz on 12/11/2012 3:05 PM PST
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90 Draenei Warrior
10550
Both Stamina and Mastery are viable.

With Mastery, your blocks will be more powerful when you Shield Block, and with the amount of Critical Blocks you do, you should have almost 100% uptime, so you block a lot more damage. The only problem I see with this is when Magic Damage hits and you get melee'd pretty hard, but that shouldn't happen too often anyway, and any magic damage that's supposed to be taken shouldn't one-shot a tank.

With stamina, your health pool will be larger so you can afford a few more mistakes and stuff. Blocks won't be as powerful as a mastery build but, seeing larger numbers in health pools usually make pugs in the group a bit more lax.

It does make Mastery more appealing, huh. Even though personally I prefer stamina.
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91 Pandaren Monk
14670
Just remember, stamina doesn't make you take any less damage, it just increases the time you can go without heals before dying. For warriors, that's a kinda useful thing because our self heals are extremely limited. On the other hand, if your healers are healing you in a reasonable amount of time, usually, you don't need more stamina.

It's about a comfort thing really. If you think you need more health and your healers think you do, go for it. In general though, unless you're doing heroic raids, the stamina on your gear will be fine.
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Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
4850
But I don't trust PUG healers!

MUST. STACK. MOAR.
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100 Pandaren Warrior
17835
strictly speaking, stam is the sure thing. mastery doesn't work for us the way it works for other tanks - while it does increase our chances with the random number generator, you can't know for sure from hit to hit whether you'll crit-block it.

the power of mastery comes over the course of a fight, and pays serious dividends on add fights (think: adds during Wind Lord Mel'jarak in HOF).

IMO balance mastery and stam the best you can - don't go all one way or another.
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100 Pandaren Warrior
17835
that's what i was talking about, crit block. and it's not a sure thing. i admit that my point made it look like i might be pooh-pooh'ing it, and that certainly wasn't the intent.

the thing is, mastery doesn't guarantee a crit block, nor does it make crit block block for more. it just ups the % chance that your 30% block turns into a 60% block. until you can cap mastery so all your blocks are crit blocks, mastery isn't a sure-thing.

that's not to say that it's not a REALLY GOOD THING to get - that wasn't my point. my point was to elaborate why it's not a good idea to stack mastery at the exclusion of stamina.
Edited by Rickotron on 12/12/2012 1:40 PM PST
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91 Pandaren Monk
14670
The problem then is, like I said, chances are, if you're not doing cutting edge, heroic raiding, you probably have enough stamina anyway. Yes, you need stamina, but the stamina that comes on your gear is probably enough and gemming and trinketting it is usually a waste (Though having stam trinkets is always a good idea)
-----
Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
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90 Pandaren Warrior
17720
Stamina > mastery. Most fights have some sort of magical/unmitigatable damage and stamina will give you more on more occasions. If you were going to gem mastery, I would tell you just to gem hit and expertise and be done with it.

Once you hit around a 500 ilvl you probably shouldn't gem either of those anyways. Gem expertise and mastery and keep everyone up 100% of the time and pull some phat dps. If you healers are any sort of capable, especially as a warrior tank, just spamming shield block will be more than enough to keep you alive on most fights, along with maximizing your dps. Obviously some CD usage will be needed, but, for example, I solo tanked H Windlord last week. I did nothing but shield block the entire time. It's GG.

TLDR: Gem stamina, not mastery.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
12/13/2012 04:18 AMPosted by Rickybobby
Stamina > mastery. Most fights have some sort of magical/unmitigatable damage and stamina will give you more on more occasions. If you were going to gem mastery, I would tell you just to gem hit and expertise and be done with it.

Wait, what? The only fight I know this tier that has that is Gara'jal.

I mean, I'm not arguing that stamina is the wrong choice, but I'd personally put hit/exp above stamina for warriors once you're above the "not get blown up by burst" stage. Stamina is great for soaking burst, but provides no real mitigation for warriors, since they can't get 1.25x their stamina to be larger than their Vengeance, even in 10m normal content.

If I were a Warrior, I'd go stamina (to safe from burst point) > hit & expertise > mastery > avoidance.

Also, keep in mind that the value of a given absolute (non-percentage of health scaling heal) on you decreases with the size of your health pool. One of the nice boons for warriors is that they take smaller hits on a smaller pool, meaning it's easier to top them off than it is to top off, say, a stamina-stacking DK.

My warrior co-tank and I sometimes laugh at the disparities in our health - I have about 770k fully raid buffed, he runs about 575k or so.

(I actually end up needing less healing than him despite taking more damage, but that's mostly because I'm exploiting a curious quirk of DK mechanics & boss damage this early in the expansion.)
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90 Pandaren Warrior
17720
Yea I pretty much said exactly what you said in my 2nd paragraph, once you reach a certain point stamina is rather meh and hit/expertise are your best stats.
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One fun factor is that warrior self healing is based entirely on our health. The more health we have, the more we are healed when healed for 10% of our health. And the more health we gain when we pop Last Stand.

Accuracy gives you increased rage flow, but depending on the content and gear level and play style, it's possible to have more rage than you need or can use without HS/Cleave well before you are accuracy capped.

Mastery only adds a minimal amount of passive mitigation, but it greatly improves active mitigation value, and helps to mitigate the rage cost of Shield Block.

Avoidance adds a decent bit to passive survivability, but only to your active mitigation via Revenge procs, and you can easily reach a point where Revenge procs for more frequently than you can use it. It also means the rage generation is dependent entirely on how fast the avoidable hits are coming in.

Given that your active mitigation is considerably more powerful than your passive survivability, it makes sense that if you only have enough in the budget to maximize one, you go for active.

Throw all that in the blender and the end result is pretty much

stamina (to safe from burst point) > hit & expertise > mastery > avoidance


with the caveat that the specifics for hit and expertise depend on how comfortable you are with rage flow, as they are the stats that have the most direct impact on it.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
12/18/2012 12:18 AMPosted by Ðemolition
soft expertise cap


!@#$storm inc.

Oh boy, here we go!
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We all know what the phrase means. Arguing over the relevance of it is purely academic, almost pedantic.
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100 Dwarf Warrior
19990
Stamina > Mastery > Hit/Expertise > Parry=Dodge > Strength

There's arguments to be made for anything. That is what I use and it works well for my progression level.
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91 Pandaren Monk
14670
12/18/2012 01:09 AMPosted by Zapwidget
We all know what the phrase means. Arguing over the relevance of it is purely academic, almost pedantic.
In the context of warrior tanks, it's relevant because warrior tanks have no soft cap at all. Yes, we all know what he means by soft cap, but nobody should be advocating it.
-----
Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
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12/18/2012 02:52 AMPosted by Eyuwang
warrior tanks have no soft cap at all. Yes, we all know what he means by soft cap, but nobody should be advocating it.


Don't they? Will warriors, by dint of their innate badassery, always be the active tank and never have the opportunity to attack the boss from behind? Will we never again have an encounter like Ultraxion where boss parry is removed from the encounter?

What if I were to advocate that the expertise soft cap is the dynamic point at which you arrive, after capping hit, at the point where you consistently generate more rage than you can use on meaningful mitigation abilities, which would mean that any further accuracy no longer benefits your survivability and from that point on only benefits your DPS?

That point would fit the description of a soft cap perfectly. The general consensus is that you arrive at that point around 7.5% expertise. Maybe a little more, maybe a little less, but as 7.5 is a valid number for other specs and a known constant it's sensible to use it as a target to aim at.
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