Good RNG vs Bad RNG (misses need to go)

90 Tauren Druid
5990
Maybe tie Speed stat to accuracy? And maybe crit chance?

I would say that Flying passive isn't effected by this, only base speed and buffs.
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100 Troll Druid
18460
/not signed

i can recall as many times the AI hit chance (especially on wild pets of lower quality) has had a string of misses as I've had.
I've also had plenty of battles where neither side suffers a miss - the majority of them actually.

Your personal experience is such a small sample size to have any statistical significance -- we'd need something like worldoflogs also tracking pet battles across many tens of thousands of pet battles to gather anything concrete.

I'm not saying I enjoy misses/dodges/etc. - I think they could use a little tweaking and bug fixing (esp. with effects that react or always hit if a burning/blind/whatever status, including weather, is applied).
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12445
12/12/2012 12:38 PMPosted by Megatonsmash
You're really missing his point. What makes boxing so exciting is that despite the skill and strategy involved, at any moment somebody could blink and catch a hook on the button and be face down on the mat.


If you're WATCHING the boxing match, sure.

But I'm FIGHTING these pet battles myself.

That'd be like going to punch the other boxer, you've got his face perfectly lined up, he's reeling from a previous punch, and then....

....he randomly teleports backwards as your punch misses completely.

That's not strategy. That's Mario Party.
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90 Night Elf Druid
12410
/not signed

i can recall as many times the AI hit chance (especially on wild pets of lower quality) has had a string of misses as I've had.
I've also had plenty of battles where neither side suffers a miss - the majority of them actually.

Your personal experience is such a small sample size to have any statistical significance -- we'd need something like worldoflogs also tracking pet battles across many tens of thousands of pet battles to gather anything concrete.

I'm not saying I enjoy misses/dodges/etc. - I think they could use a little tweaking and bug fixing (esp. with effects that react or always hit if a burning/blind/whatever status, including weather, is applied).


First off, I couldnt care less about pet battles against tamers. They have terrible AI and you can reset the fight to any order you like and you always know what pets you are going up against. So its really easy to trounce them if you have a large stable of 25

Secondly, its not my personal experience. There are constant complaints about misses and dodges on the forum. Hell, its so prevalent, you can load up 3 pet battles and notice the number of misses and dodges on most abilities. The miss chance is so significant that there is no need to talk about sample size, nor do you need to pull logs of thousands of fights. Really its hilarious. We are not talking about 1-5% miss chances, some skills literally miss 20-30% of the time.

The issue people have with misses and dodges is that, losing games due to them is extremely frustrating and winning games due to them means absolutely nothing. So just remove them ffs
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90 Pandaren Warrior
14185
I think pet battles strike a good balance between being either too random or too predictable... I think misses/dodges w/e are around 5%, but RNG being what it is, some players may have a significantly different experience... it's frustrating sure, and I expect a lot of the QQ here is just venting, which is fine.

I'm happy with there being RNG, in the form of crits, and dodges... they stop matches from becoming too formulaic; a player cannot simply rely on their experience and knowledge alone to make decisions about which abilities to use, they have to reevaluate on a turn-by-turn basis whenever there is an unexpected crit or dodge, which is good because it can make for some tense edge-of-your-seat matches.

I dont think pet battles can fairly be compared to 'Mario party', and I agree that level of RNG would be undesirable, but at the same time I don't want to see this game become chess... random elements make competitive games far more interesting for the average player than purely strategic ones, and I think pet battles are intended as a purely casual, fun side game, not a cerebral exercise for the uber-nerdy.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
The issue is that there are misses *and* dodges. Both being at 95% for most attacks, which reduces the chance you'll actually land an attack to 90% - that's too low for this sort of system. In Pokemon, most people use the 95% chance to hit attacks over the stronger-but-less-accurate attacks (ie. Ice Beam over Blizzard, Surf over Hydro Pump) for their reliability, but we don't even get much choice in moves in Wowkemon.

If either dodges or misses were removed, making the chance to land 95%, I'd be fine with that. As it stands, they play too big a part in the outcome of matches. Crucial miss/dodge = gg.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12445
12/13/2012 01:10 AMPosted by Jaximus
If either dodges or misses were removed, making the chance to land 95%, I'd be fine with that. As it stands, they play too big a part in the outcome of matches. Crucial miss/dodge = gg.


I don't expect to see many "serious" pet battle tournaments for this reason.

12/13/2012 12:33 AMPosted by Suntzü
I dont think pet battles can fairly be compared to 'Mario party', and I agree that level of RNG would be undesirable, but at the same time I don't want to see this game become chess... random elements make competitive games far more interesting for the average player than purely strategic ones, and I think pet battles are intended as a purely casual, fun side game, not a cerebral exercise for the uber-nerdy.


I think it's perfectly fair to compare them to Mario Party because the level of RNG ensures that the outcome is TOO unpredictable.

For example, say you do some strategic planning to take down a strong healing/tanking pet. You put curse of doom on it, knowing that you have now have 5 rounds to bring that pet within range of CoDs high burst damage.

You plan accordingly, using just the right moves to get that pet in range, and then...the CoD arbitrarily misses for no reason.

The game can still have RNG. As the OP said, there's GOOD RNG and there's BAD RNG. Moves that say "Has a high chance to miss" are a good example of GOOD RNG because you trade hit chance for power.

But every move, even the "safe" ones, having a high misfire chance is just makes the whole thing an exercise in randomness.

Again, I welcome good RNG, but every move being tied to such RNG means there's just a bit too much Mario Party in pet battles.
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90 Troll Shaman
14215
12/13/2012 09:10 AMPosted by Destian
Again, I welcome good RNG, but every move being tied to such RNG means there's just a bit too much Mario Party in pet battles.


agreed.

basic moves (like claw, bite metal fist) should have a base 100% accuracy. most attacks should. the higher damage moves should have some chance to miss. the two turn with dodging mechanic built in attacks (burrow, lift off) should have some chance to miss.

but for the love of god, id like to know my 'odds' of hitting with any given attack. since we cant build hit rating to avoid it in this system.
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100 Human Paladin
21260
When it comes to a turn based game like pet battles, all RNG is bad RNG. Nearly every PvP battle I play is determined by RNG, and that's no fun at all. Unfortunately, pet battles are more addicting than crack for a lot of people, so this flawed system will likely never change. Blizzard loves it's RNG, and tries to cram it in to every aspect of the game whenever possible.
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90 Dwarf Warlock
17395
I don't think RNG should go completely, but it definitely needs to be toned down.

Losing 10 matches in a row (via forfeit) because I spend several moves setting up a combo and it dodges/misses or even mysteriously connects but does 0 damage isn't fun, especially when that combo is critical to your strategy and you can't recover from it missing.
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90 Human Priest
14135
I agree that the RNG needs to play less of a roll in pet battles, but I like there being some chance to miss/dodge. I suppose they could add in glancing blows for pets? *<-facetious*
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
11925
Two words: (kinda) Streakbreaker.

We don't need this for the world outside pet battles, because of course, you can get hit capped. Battle pets cannot get hit capped.

Streakbreaker.

Done.
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