"Roll on a PvE server"

90 Draenei Paladin
11315


You have to be kidding, that's the best you can do? Call me a liar? My husband and I group quite often... I take my mage to him and port him around the world... I have no trouble getting to him and we always wind up together.


Sweetie, I was agreeing with you. :)

<3


Oops...

<3
90 Undead Warrior
0
Bashiok, your point is well made.

I take exception to one thing you said though. You and Blizzard generally continue to state that "there are PvP solutions for PvP problems". However, with CRZ, I am not seeing cases where retaliation is either effective or even possible, even with overwhelming numbers in the revenge posse.

The problem is, it's ridiculous adding a cross-realm camper to a KoS list (which I assume you as CM cannot advocate anyways since it comes to close to harassment), and by the time the posse arrives to help, the offenders are usually long phased out anyways. There simply is no "fear" in players' heads that if they gank lowbies, SOMEBODY on the other side will remember that and get revenge later, if not imminently.


Why do you need revenge or a posse? Survival should be more than enough. Change your mindset from someone entitled to win against all odds, to one who is proud to frustrate said ganker by being hard to gank!


The only way to be hard to gank for a player 70 levels above you, is to not take the rez and log out.

Look, people keep saying ganking is a great way to instigate larger world PvP battles as each side brings help. I keep wondering... how? With the CRZ, should I waste time traveling to a guildie in distress when I'll likely encounter no AC when I get there? And if, miraculously there is a showdown at the OK corral, the losing side will quickly devolve into playing games at the CRZ zone boundary lines, phasing in and out as their health bars demand. Blegh.
85 Undead Death Knight
0
Ok you guys dont understand and that is fine. The point that is trying to be made here is as such;

Players are getting ganked by 90s and that's fine. You fly over see a lower level, you kill them and you fly off to go about your business. You may see them again and kill them again, once or twice more.

Although the issue is that people are not leaving it at this level, what is happening is. a level 90 sees a guy who is 50ish levels lower than him. Then this level 90 proceeds to kills him, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again 20, 30 times. This is excessive and does nothing but completely ruin the leveling experience for people.

The only true way to get to 90 in a reasonable amount of time is to grind dungeons, or roll PvE. The issue comes down to I want to experience leveling and PvP. I have nothing wrong with world PvP, I was a vanilla player and I remember the old days. Ganking happened in vanilla too, but not to the extent is is happening now.

The only reason I'm writing this post now is because I have seen a 2minute respawn timer myself for the past 20 minutes because some 90 mage with no gear is sitting on my corpse. lol, kill me once, twice, three, hell even four times but move on. I give you nothing, all you do is put me off playing the game for nothing.

TL;DR I thoroughly enjoy world PvP but Camping someones corpse that is 50 level lower than you for 2 hours is excessive. Kill them 3-5 times if you must and move on.


Define reasonable amount of time please. For example, share your lvl 90 toon and I wil be happy to compare the dates that you reached lvl 90 with mine, and lets see who hit 90 first.

I leveled by questing, not dungeons or BGs.


Wtf are you talking about? my point is it slows peoples leveling down, that's fine, but the problem is people who STALK you for 30min to and hour for no reason i pointless and it doesnt need to happen. I understand killing a low level, thats fine, but there needs to be a point where it's considered harassment/griefing.

Bashiok, your point is well made.

I take exception to one thing you said though. You and Blizzard generally continue to state that "there are PvP solutions for PvP problems". However, with CRZ, I am not seeing cases where retaliation is either effective or even possible, even with overwhelming numbers in the revenge posse.

The problem is, it's ridiculous adding a cross-realm camper to a KoS list (which I assume you as CM cannot advocate anyways since it comes to close to harassment), and by the time the posse arrives to help, the offenders are usually long phased out anyways. There simply is no "fear" in players' heads that if they gank lowbies, SOMEBODY on the other side will remember that and get revenge later, if not imminently.


Why do you need revenge or a posse? Survival should be more than enough. Change your mindset from someone entitled to win against all odds, to one who is proud to frustrate said ganker by being hard to gank!


please explain how to become hard to gank by a guy with a epic flying mount that travels at 200%+ movement speed. when you do then i'll be glad to agree with you.
90 Night Elf Druid
9750
I could try to reword a previous post by Daxx, but I'll just link it here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7320822467?page=5#85

The only thing I'd add to that is something I said over and over during BC when the big complaint was about Halaa: world PvP is not fair. We're not limiting who can do it, or in what amounts, and inherently some people will want to gank lower level players. Of course we later added areas like Wintergrasp and Tol Barad which attempted to balance the sides, but outside of those, world PvP is inherently unfair. Whether factions are imbalanced, or it's just a coward looking to trounce lowbies and run at the sight of an even-leveled player, world PvP is not fair. We've got battlegrounds and arenas if you want matched fights, and you can level almost exclusively in battlegrounds all the way to 90 if you want to, or dungeons for that matter.

The big issue here as I see it is that, and again Daxxarri's post above says it well, PvP realms weren't really proper PvP realms for many years, and now that they are again it's catching people off-guard. That doesn't change that they're working again as PvP realms. In most cases there's a solution to being ganked, whether it's calling on guildies or people from your faction, or escaping and hitting a different zone, BG, or dungeon for a while. We do have policies for very extreme cases when it crosses into [url="https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/player-vs-player-server-policy"]ongoing harassment[/url], but even being camped for hours is something everyone should be prepared for.

As it's been a fact of how PvP servers have worked since launch, it's not too surprising that others will respond with recommendations against being on that type of server if you don't want to accept everything that comes with it.

I like me some BGs, but leveling on PvP servers is just too frustrating. I've tried it, I hate it, and that's ok. It's not going to be for everyone.


I'm going to say this once:

This game has opportunities for fun and engaging pvp experiences between players while out in the world questing. That part of the game would be working 100% as intended, and fights between players of near equal levels are interesting. Fights between groups of near equal level players are interesting.

Fights between a level 90 and someone who can't even begin to fight back, is not interesting, and if you're defending that mode of game play, you fail as a game designer. It's as simple as that.

You wouldn't allow a level 90 to participate in BGs or Arena with anyone aside from other level 90s. The difference here is that the world is there for players questing/professions/exploration/pet battles/achievements, and it's NOT there for lowbie ganking.

The primary issue with your post, Daxxari's post, and any other post on this subject from a blue or developer in recent history, is you completely and utterly fail to recognize the potential to improve the quality of life for people leveling characters. You insist that people can just 'roll a pve server' or 'get on their high level characters and fight back.'

Well, that does nothing to solve the problem for people who want to potentially engage equal leveled players in open world pvp while out and about. Did you get that part? Here, let me repeat myself so it has a chance to sink in: there are people who play this game and WANT to engage in world pvp with other players of equal level while out in the world.

Is there a way to make that 100% fair 100% of the time? Not without ruining the experience. There will be situations where a leveler is outnumbered and can't really put up much of a fight, or it turns into a camping fest. But the correct solution to that problem would be to get your equal level friends to come and help you, not get on your 90 and go gank those lowbies who ganged up on you.

If you don't have a group of low level friends to come help you, well then you did what you could to make it as fair as it can be, time to move on and go do something else.

I'm sick and tired of this 'hands off' approach to resolving low level issues, especially ones which directly affect the quality of life for players who are working on a new character. You guys assume that the player can just handle it themselves and there's no reason to try and improve the situation for them or fix the problems which have easy solutions.

Fixing this problem would encourage more players to get out in the world and play with each other, knowing full well they would be able to participate in wpvp without having to camp their mains nearby so they can log over and jump on gankers.

We're talking about a quality of life improvement for everyone, and you're talking about justifying something which should never have been allowed in the first place. Get on the same page as us, and maybe we can have a real conversation.

Or continue to sit on your hands while players suffer and contemplate better things to do with their time than play your game.
13 Troll Mage
5690


So to be clear, you have never experienced problems with CRZ, no one was ever loaded into a PVP server when they rolled on a PVE server when it launched, when you leave your alt and log back on you have never been put into another server due to change in population in that zone, you have never tried to get an alt to solve the problem and end up with them not there due to being loaded into a different server.

None of that has ever happened to you? I have read several people with problems like the above. Not to mention I don't have a problem with whats going on as much as i have a problem with it screwing up wPVP due to the way it works.


Simply put, No.

I've been steadily working all my alts up to lvl 90. The most fun I've seen with CRZ is the PVP in Cata zones. leveling used to be boring and monotonous, kill mob x here, pick up node y there.

Now, you need to actually pay attention to what/who is around you, waiting to strike. And for you to strike back.

And there are players everywhere now!!!!

Fun times again. :)


The idea of CRZ is good, it solves alot of problems but i think there are several things that need work on it, it seems most of the problems with bugs have been solved, as i said to Xanzul i haven't had a problem with CRZ not loading party groups since 5.1 launched and really think it was a bug, I saw it a grand total of 3 times and reported it twice. I sincerely hope it was fixed because it was just annoying. Mind you only one of those times was it PVP related.

I've had a terrible experience finding quest mobs and resources since it launched, granted that could be my bad luck, its not like I've spent alot of time farming old world herbs/skins/quests/ore. Wish they would increase the spawn rates some to compensate, then again, it might be more of my luck considering i have spent most of my time in more current content than old world.
90 Night Elf Hunter
10270
I'll be frank, I like PvP I think it's certainly interesting to see someone of the opposite faction and be faced with a dilemma. Do I attack this person, help or turn tail and run before I'm noticed.

Although with CRZ I will not level on a pvp realm ever again. The simple idea of being camped endlessly is about as appealing as me listening to more tripe from the President of America. I prefer "The OLD Ways" which had a sense of community. I really think they should revert PvP realms to one faction only as well to end a lot of griefers. I had a friend who would login... I think it was redridge at the time and would get camped by this guy on the opposite faction. He'd log out and or go to another zone and the guy would magically be there as well.

The other thing separating would do is reduce the chances of someone calling out an approaching enemy city raid. If you wanted to do that you'd have to do it the hard way, aka good ole fashion scouting.

I expect though my request will fall upon deaf ears, especially the ending of CRZ which as I said at the start is the only way I'd ever return to PvP realms.
90 Troll Hunter
8795


It still isn't griefing.


What was the name of that one guy in vanilla who camped people non stop for months?
I thought it was the most hilarious thing in the world.

+5 internet for anything who find it


Angwe.

Here's his collection of chat screenshots.

http://www.coderedonly.com/gaming/wow/angwe.html
Hell, I play on a PVE realm. I haven't been on a PVP realm since 2006, and even I knew what was coming with CRZ.

Oh, you knew CRZ was coming 3 years ago? Tell me, do you also dabble in the arts of conjuration and alchemy? Can I get you to come perform at my kid's birthday party?

Do you often take things out of context? I said 'with CRZ', not that I knew CRZ was coming. Learn to read.

12/12/2012 08:03 PMPosted by Bowlingball
You went to a PVP server, then complain about PVP, and act like they're going to change it to please you.

No, I am acting like they made a bonehead move to change it with CRZ in the first place.

And now we have found the source of your anger. There are plenty of anti-CRZ threads floating around, perhaps you should look for one of those, instead of masking your anger in an anti-pvp thread.
Edited by Bowlingball on 12/12/2012 8:11 PM PST
90 Night Elf Druid
15665
12/12/2012 08:08 PMPosted by Tidez
please explain how to become hard to gank by a guy with a epic flying mount that travels at 200%+ movement speed. when you do then i'll be glad to agree with you.


You find someone on your realm with an epic mount to come kill him.
90 Undead Monk
11210
12/12/2012 08:03 PMPosted by Judgernaught


Try rolling on a pve server first.


My request is to those who have decided to quit wow due to the massive increase of pvp as a result of cross realm zones. Not to list obvious options to anyone on the fence.


If people are quitting wow because more pvp is happening on pvp realms, then I stand by my statement. They should try a pve server first. If they already quit because of it, then they should come back and try a pve realm. It does not make sense to quit or want to quit over something you can easily avoid. Too many toons on the server you don't like? You wouldn't be playing them at all by quitting. CRZ did increase pvp on pvp servers. We pvpers are damn glad it did too. If you don't like world pvp, and everything that comes along with it, then again I say, "Try a pve server".
90 Night Elf Druid
15665
12/12/2012 08:09 PMPosted by Baeloro
This game has opportunities for fun and engaging pvp experiences between players while out in the world questing. That part of the game would be working 100% as intended, and fights between players of near equal levels are interesting. Fights between groups of near equal level players are interesting.


Oh low level characters can't communicate with high levels characters anymore, then yeah that definitely need to be fixed.
90 Night Elf Druid
14495


Define reasonable amount of time please. For example, share your lvl 90 toon and I wil be happy to compare the dates that you reached lvl 90 with mine, and lets see who hit 90 first.

I leveled by questing, not dungeons or BGs.


Wtf are you talking about? my point is it slows peoples leveling down, that's fine, but the problem is people who STALK you for 30min to and hour for no reason i pointless and it doesnt need to happen. I understand killing a low level, thats fine, but there needs to be a point where it's considered harassment/griefing.


You claim the only way to level on a PVP server in a reasonable amount of time is through dungeon crawling.
I asked you to share what amount of time you think that is. Since I lvled on a PVP server with no dungeons crawls we can see how my lvling time compared to what you think a reasonable amount of time is.

How long do you think it should take to lvl from 85 to 90???

EDIT: oh, and the whole stalking/gankimg thing that delays leveling... Its a PVP server.. its EXPECTED TO HAPPEN.
Edited by Frostbringer on 12/12/2012 8:16 PM PST
55 Dwarf Death Knight
0
12/12/2012 08:05 PMPosted by Hauthorn
The big issue here as I see it is that, and again Daxxarri's post above says it well, PvP realms weren't really proper PvP realms for many years, and now that they are again it's catching people off-guard. That doesn't change that they're working again as PvP realms.


Actually, they are still far from proper, but it's nice to know where you all stand on the issue.


"They're working again as PvP realms."

F*cking A right.
90 Draenei Priest
13660


What was the name of that one guy in vanilla who camped people non stop for months?
I thought it was the most hilarious thing in the world.

+5 internet for anything who find it


Angwe.

Here's his collection of chat screenshots.

http://www.coderedonly.com/gaming/wow/angwe.html


Praise Elune!

Thank you!

:)
13 Troll Mage
5690


So to be clear, you have never experienced problems with CRZ, no one was ever loaded into a PVP server when they rolled on a PVE server when it launched, when you leave your alt and log back on you have never been put into another server due to change in population in that zone, you have never tried to get an alt to solve the problem and end up with them not there due to being loaded into a different server.

None of that has ever happened to you? I have read several people with problems like the above. Not to mention I don't have a problem with whats going on as much as i have a problem with it screwing up wPVP due to the way it works.


Most of the significant issues with cross realm zones were fixed a long time ago. Like I said you people are scrambling to come up with new complaints about cross realm zones in an attempt to get your competition free empty zones back and clearly aren't afraid to lie.


I have never seen the eiffle tower in person, it must not exist. Considering that only a very small number of Siberian tigers exist in the world that must mean they are a lie, just like cake.

Just because you have never seen something or it is not a common issue does not mean that it does not exist. Your "Discussion" has entailed nothing but coming up with comments like "You're lying", "You're wrong" or "Insert link to PVP server policy here." You can keep it up but all you're doing is making a fool of yourself.

Suggestion for a better comment? "I've never seen it happen but man that would suck, report it so I don't have to deal with it." Maybe then people wouldn't tell you that you are arguing to argue.
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