What's the 'easiest' healer right now?

90 Orc Monk
8995
At such high spirit, I have a question - what do you spend mana on? The only thing I can think of is surging mists so you don't need to use clunky healing spheres


Jab, soothing, ReM, expel harm, Healing spheres, surging (in extreme emergencies), SCK sometimes. High spirit just allows me to ALWAYS be doing something as opposed to just 'nothing to do i am just going to sit here'. If you can manage with such low spirit that's great because I don't see how I could do it. Because we bring no utility to the raid I just try to do ultimate throughput which in turn costs me a fair bit of mana.

This playstyle works for me though - may not work for you but for me I find it is so much better than running low spirit.

I brought this point up because the OP said he was having mana issues so I would recommend going with high spirit if thats the case
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12/13/2012 05:57 PMPosted by Jezbro
At such high spirit, I have a question - what do you spend mana on? The only thing I can think of is surging mists so you don't need to use clunky healing spheres


Jab, soothing, ReM, expel harm, Healing spheres, surging (in extreme emergencies), SCK sometimes. High spirit just allows me to ALWAYS be doing something as opposed to just 'nothing to do i am just going to sit here'. If you can manage with such low spirit that's great because I don't see how I could do it. Because we bring no utility to the raid I just try to do ultimate throughput which in turn costs me a fair bit of mana.

This playstyle works for me though - may not work for you but for me I find it is so much better than running low spirit.

I brought this point up because the OP said he was having mana issues so I would recommend going with high spirit if thats the case


What's your opinion of crit vs spirit for regen purposes, I know spirit should be leading for pure regen, but by how much?
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90 Pandaren Monk
5155
Pretty interesting conversation going on up till now. I just did a heroic shadow-pan Mon, and managed to get through it ok. I glyph'd out of Uplift, and into Mana Tea. I used mana tea anytime I had a couple stacks, which was pretty frequently, and keeping RM up, let me use Uplift alot, which helped. I was able to finish this place much easier then the last heroic I did, and never went near OOM. (Only dropped to about 45% at the most.) An issue I noticed though, is that I had a tough time pulling people back from dieing. With channeled spells, and hots rolling, I could keep them from dropping low, but if they did, I had a hard time pulling them back.

Healing Sphere's might be better then SM, but when the person almost dead is in the middle of a group of 5 mobs, plus your entire group, they're kind of hard to target accurately. Since it seems that I *can* run heroics on lower spirit, I think just for fun, I'm going to grab a Contenders Satin set, and see what running with higher spirit does.

Jez mentioned that he likes being able to do stuff in a group, not just throw out some hots and wait. I prefer to do the same, but only because I feel like if I keep healing, I can keep people alive. I feel like if I pause, they'll start taking more damage then I can heal. If I didn't have to worry about my mana so much, I would be able to toss around heals more freely.
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90 Orc Monk
8995
12/13/2012 06:15 PMPosted by Flutterdash
What's your opinion of crit vs spirit for regen purposes, I know spirit should be leading for pure regen, but by how much?


That's a tough one as I haven't done any number crunching on it as some people have in the past - but from my experience I can't rely on a crit chance for mana regen at all, as you could oom yourself hoping for a double proc the whole fight.

However the way I use it is my stat priority as everyone else's is int>spirit (to comfortable, for me about 11-12k) > haste cap (3148 in fierce tiger stance) > crit > mastery > higher haste. The spirit gives me GUARANTEED mana regen which allows me to do consistent heals in every fight. When I get a proc on mana tea I simply just pump out a bit more heals than what I would when 'pacing myself' like in garalon so I can just use that proc to get myself back in line to where I was.

With this mindset I can do consistently high numbers, and with enough procs, can push up to VERY high numbers some weeks.
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90 Pandaren Monk
5155
So if you do go for spirit, what's the 'cap' for it? What's a good mark to hit before moving on to other stats? And the same goes for Int. Last time I played a toon who needed Int, it was still a mana pool thing, more int, meant more mana for spells. Now its similar to SP, so what/is there, an Int cap?
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90 Orc Monk
8995
Firstly there is no cap for int or spirit. Intellect you should be going for as much as possible (its a primary stat so you really cant reforge out of it anyway).

Spirit on the other hand is completely dependent on you and what you feel comfortable with. For me, as I said, is about 12k ish buffed but that is because we are pushing heroic heart of fear at the moment so I need to do A LOT of healing (im looking at you garalon). Ive seen some monks at 12.5k spirit unbuffed and some do just as well with 9k.

You seem to be just getting into dungeons and LFR so I would recommend around the 6-7k mark as a starter. It really depends on the gear you have and as you get more you will naturally get more spirit allowing for the high levels others have. But as you get towards those levels you will soon decide what you prefer.

tl;dr - no int cap get as much as possible. whatever you're comfortable with in spirit.
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85 Night Elf Druid
0
12/13/2012 06:34 PMPosted by Jezbro
from my experience I can't rely on a crit chance for mana regen at all, as you could oom yourself hoping for a double proc the whole fight.


RNG doesn't really have much effect on regen; over a 5+ minute fight your average proc rate should be pretty close to the theoretical proc rate.

12/13/2012 05:35 PMPosted by Flutterdash
I believe I can jab even with low spirit given jab per chi = 9k (thankfully they haven't hotfixed it), vs soothing mists per chi = 9342 on average.


This doesn't take into account the fact that Soothing does healing as it generates Chi. For every Chi you generate with Soothing you do almost three ticks worth of healing (Power Strikes notwithstanding), and this pushes Soothing well past Jab in terms of net HPM.
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85 Human Death Knight
10835
12/13/2012 02:13 PMPosted by Flutterdash
Then I must be doing something wrong, because i'm having serious issues where I'm at. Using chi for mana Tea, and using that to restore mana, just doesn't keep me up on mana.


Just use soothing mists - RM on cd. Tea when available. Spend chi on whatever, you should be fine on mana.

SCK costs too much

Jab is good if you are in a hurry, but meleeing sucks.(tiger palm /blackout kick is not worth it).

Expel harm is also good.

Surging mists - do not use this thing ever.


Nobody pay attention to this guy. This is extremely dumb advice from a guy who obviously plays a Monk in the easiest way possible and doesn't use any of their utility spells to help the raid when needed.

SCK only costs too much only if you can't regen the mana. SM isn't used often as it's more of an emergency spell and if you need a quick chi as well but it should be used when needed (and it's required on Tsulong). You'd use those spells if you had any mana regen to go with them. You realize that SM and RM are extremely low throughput spells right? I tried to look up logs of your guild but you guys apparently do not put any up. You sound like you pull 30k healing on fights.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
7725
SCK is only viable in 25 mans, it's trash for 10 mans considering the mana cost and smaller amount of mastery procs. RM is in no way a low throughput spell, its usually top or 2nd in heals done in all monk's healing done. Surging is indeed trash, healing spheres beat it in pretty much all situations unless for some reason you cannot reliably target the tank. As a low spirit mw monk, my spell choice consists of

Keep Zeal and TP up
Jab for Chi
RM almost on CD, depending on how prevalent raid dmg is (not always on CD on fights such as elegon (phase 1 has almost no dmg going out except for Total Annihilation), on CD on fights like tsulong, protectors, or garalon)
Chi burst on stacked raid, unless TFT+uplift combo is up
uplift if raid is spread.
Healing Spheres or a 3 Vital Mists+Surging Mist to spot heal if there is danger of overheal
Soothing+Enveloping if there is low chance of overheal
Torpedo can substitute a chi burst in some situations, hitting 2 other targets with relatively low overheal will put this talent ahead of xuen.

I haven't had the pleasure of having a garalon kill logged since the 5.1 patch (i pug a lot), so I suppose a Tsulong kill would suffice, as it has tons of constant raid damage.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-vsi3n5wj2s59ucer/details/4/?s=112&e=571

Spirit to comfort=however much spirit you feel comfortable with, be it from 4k to 12k unbuffed. I sit at around 5.9k (check my armory) raidbuffed (int flask and food) and never have mana issues. I'd love to reforge an extra 2k spirit into crit, but my gear wont allow it.

This class is by no means an easy class, but I find that it gets relatively easier with time, and it is definitely more involved than say... disc priests (lol poh spam)
Edited by Kungfuwaifu on 12/14/2012 4:09 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
12/14/2012 03:22 AMPosted by Kungfuwaifu
disc priests (lol poh spam)


Amen... Give me more aoe or give me death.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
7725
Fine, I'm not giving discs enough credit.

you have to press spirit shell before PoH spam for massive win at other healers expense
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12445
Don't buy the cloth gear, OP. He's mentioned this more than once in this thread, and not once has anyone corrected it.

I'm not trying to be rude here, but if you are truly looking for the *easiest* healer, you should probably stick with another role. It sounds to me like you just want to be able to hit a couple of buttons, and SHAZAAM!, but healing hasn't worked that way since...well, since you stopped healing, not to put too fine a point on it.

If you want to learn, myself, and I am sure others, would be more than willing to help you. That said, I will throw some general things in your direction.

I'm trying to remember how much Spirit 463 gear gives you...like 6k or so? This should be your minimum, in any case, until you get a better handle on the class.

Regarding Spirit in general, this stat outweighs throughput stats for all healers until you reach the tipping point, which is different both for every class, and for every player. I might be wrong, but I believe that number is somewhere between 8k-12k (depending on the class), and individual comfort numbers vary.

Don't listen to anyone who tells you that Surging Mists is garbage, trash, bad, or whatever negative slant they want to put on it. Anyone who completely disregards a piece of their toolkit is foolish at best, and ignorant, at worst. It has it's place, can be instant while channeling Soothing Mists, and it generates Chi.

As a Mistweaver, you have more than one way to heal. I am aware of 3 distinct, viable, healing styles (no one else I know uses the third...yet), and there may be yet more, but suffice to say there are at least 3 ways to skin the cat, as it were. Additionally, you can switch between them, should the need arise. If you need help learning them, ask away, and I will be happy to help you.

Chi, Mana Tea, and You - you say that you are getting stacks of Mana Tea, which is good. If you are playing *properly,* you will generate them at a decent rate. It's designed this way, and because of this, you can easily tell if you are doing it right or not. Little to no Mana Tea = you are doing it wrong.

I'm going to stop here, for now. I'm glad to hear that your second dungeon went better than the first.

Riôt
Edited by Riôt on 12/14/2012 5:03 AM PST
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90 Draenei Priest
6975
12/13/2012 01:29 PMPosted by Flutterdash
Priests are the best healer right now, and monks don't need spirit to heal.


I just wanted to weigh in on the first part of this. A bad disc priest can usually do pretty well just mashing Spirit Shell on cooldown and spamming PoH, but a good disc priest will have to carefully manage their cooldowns, be able to keep a 3-stack of Grace on key targets, and know when it's okay to weave in Atonement heals/DPS.

So basically, disc is the "easiest" healer right now, but the spec is overall fairly difficult to master.
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90 Human Priest
17065
Wait wait wait wait. Is this thread about the BEST right now or the EASIEST?

And what context are you putting it in? 5man? 10man? LOLLFR? 10 progression 25 progression? And are you talking about just 'lol close eyes and spam' or actually playing how the class is supposed to be played to achieve the best results? /confuzzed

If you are just dungeoning, any old healer will do. But I'd argue a shaman is the "Best" because they have good single target with a good AE, and an interrupt AND a CC AND CDs. You can totally pick up the slack if you run into dumb DPS. But the price for that is you actually need 'skill' to make use of all those abilities in a 5man to make them powerful.

If you want 'ease and simplicity', I'd argue a holy priest is 'easiest' since it's really just a 'see HP go down, push HP back up" type of healer. Good output. Decent single target and good AE. No thinking required. No CC to worry about. No interrupts to worry about. You just bruteforce heal it off. You even have a lightwell (glyph it) and it'll heal for you.

Disc falls short in that aspect since our big 'CD' doesn't really do much in a 5...we also don't have CC, or interrupts. Yet with the spec you are GCD locked with your 14+ CDs. Absorbs aren't put to max effect because in dungeons you usually just need raw output to push everyone up after they stand in fire and disc falls short on that....unless you vastly outgear the place. At this point Disc turns from one of the 'hardest' classes to play (decently) to 'downright faceroll'. Of which you can just heal the place on holy fire, smite and penance alone...
Edited by Zamboozle on 12/14/2012 7:15 AM PST
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Wait wait wait wait. Is this thread about the BEST right now or the EASIEST?

And what context are you putting it in? 5man? 10man? LOLLFR? 10 progression 25 progression? And are you talking about just 'lol close eyes and spam' or actually playing how the class is supposed to be played to achieve the best results? /confuzzed

If you are just dungeoning, any old healer will do. But I'd argue a shaman is the "Best" because they have good single target with a good AE, and an interrupt AND a CC AND CDs. You can totally pick up the slack if you run into dumb DPS. But the price for that is you actually need 'skill' to make use of all those abilities in a 5man to make them powerful.

If you want 'ease and simplicity', I'd argue a holy priest is 'easiest' since it's really just a 'see HP go down, push HP back up" type of healer. Good output. Decent single target and good AE. No thinking required. No CC to worry about. No interrupts to worry about. You just bruteforce heal it off. You even have a lightwell (glyph it) and it'll heal for you.

Disc falls short in that aspect since our big 'CD' doesn't really do much in a 5...we also don't have CC, or interrupts. Yet with the spec you are GCD locked with your 14+ CDs. Absorbs aren't put to max effect because in dungeons you usually just need raw output to push everyone up after they stand in fire and disc falls short on that....unless you vastly outgear the place. At this point Disc turns from one of the 'hardest' classes to play (decently) to 'downright faceroll'. Of which you can just heal the place on holy fire, smite and penance alone...

disc priest poh heals for more than holy priest poh.

a badly played disc priest is probably better than other healers.
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90 Orc Shaman
15810
a badly played disc priest probably does play better than other healers, but an AMAZING disc priest who has foresight and knows how to use all his / her tools (AA, PS, SS, knowing when you should be contributing high amounts of damage through smiting / HF, PW Bubble (if these two are not called out beforehand, etc.) definitely requires the most thought over the other healers. Kind of makes them the easiest healer to probably pick up on, but also the healer that has the most things to watch for etc (so tough to master).

I don't like using the word "skill" but if I had to pick one I would say its a good discipline priest that can be the best healer. The one weakness they have is lack of burst HPS which isn't exactly that common in this tier. Most of the AoE damage, you know beforehand will occur and so you can generally time SS or shields to partially handle it. In the case of burst / random incidental HPS (whatever you want to call it), shaman is the best hands down, but again that's not super common this tier.

But like I said earlier in this topic, I am not sure why people are talking about the best when OP was talking about easiest.
Edited by Gardiff on 12/14/2012 8:40 AM PST
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90 Human Priest
17065

disc priest poh heals for more than holy priest poh.

a badly played disc priest is probably better than other healers.


o_O...are you talking about raw healing or are you counting the healing + absorb on the 25% aegis as well...?
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90 Undead Priest
16410
12/14/2012 03:26 AMPosted by Keirisonis
disc priests (lol poh spam)


Amen... Give me more aoe or give me death.


Seriously, this is worse than PW:S spam. At least then I had a 15sec timer with a 30sec bubble to track... This I just premark raiders for people to stand near and spam one button for literally ~75% of my healing. I've never been so disappointed in Blizzard, but it's what I've come to expect.

Sadly I know they won't fix us, they'll nerf PoH spam because it's becoming too good but they won't give us something else... BECAUSE WE STILL HAVE NO RAID AOE HEAL.
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90 Undead Priest
16410
12/14/2012 08:40 AMPosted by Gardiff
a badly played disc priest probably does play better than other healers, but an AMAZING disc priest who has foresight and knows how to use all his / her tools (AA, PS, SS, knowing when you should be contributing high amounts of damage through smiting / HF, PW Bubble (if these two are not called out beforehand, etc.) definitely requires the most thought over the other healers. Kind of makes them the easiest healer to probably pick up on, but also the healer that has the most things to watch for etc (so tough to master).


For now, prediction is required, but only because of mana being a problem. By next tier, unless they fights increase in length I'll be able to spam it all fight long. At that point, I'll need to put it on several keys so as not to wear my keyboard out.
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