Is fun still the focus?

100 Worgen Mage
13260
Believe it or not, the main reason I am a fire mage is its FUN. In recent years, we have experienced many changes, nerfs/buffs/rebalancing, call it whatever you like.

All have had the fundamental purpose of making the class as a whole more balanced so we don't get spec stacking.

99/100 mages being Frost pre MoP for PvP or only 1/100 being Frost for PvE was never the ideal outcome.

However, the attempts to balance a spec while at the same time trying to keep it in line with other classes are not the issue the community has at the moment.

Its the apparent lack of understanding of what makes particular classes fun to begin with which Blizz and its developers have lost.

As I said at the outset, the fundamental reason I chose this class and spec was its fun. I raid twice a week, run LFRs and LFDs and cap VPs to progress.

But the various changes made to not just my class but others (rogues for example) have been purely about the output of the spec with little if any consideration for the reason the community came to WOW in the first place. The fun.

Blizz have said they want to avoid knee jerk reactions by making changes too quickly in one patch on the one hand (i.e. PVP Shamans) and yet are willing to suck the fun out of a class without an apparent 2nd thought on the other.

Wake up Blizz, it isn't the nerfing of the spec that infuriates your players, its the complete lack of understanding that the fundamental reason people login and play is for fun.

To relax.

In some instances, to catch up with friends in a team environment and progress through end game content.

The biggest blight on the developers at the moment is they clearly have no understanding of fun.

They see the end game content damage or healing parses and look for the best solution to bring the leaders back to the pack.

A sad thing for a MMO.

So my question to Blizz and everyone else is? Is fun still the focus? Or is Blizz so obsessed with balance they have forgotten this most basic of premise when it comes to classes.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
12485
12/12/2012 09:13 PMPosted by Graylen
So my question to Blizz and everyone else is? Is fun still the focus?


I've been wondering that myself... So many ways to go about bringing a spec back in line, and they seem to invariably take the path that makes the spec less fun overall. The numbers popping up on my screen are inconsequential to me, I don't care if my pyroblast crit for 300k or 350k. But I do care when I am forced to stand there spamming one spell over and over again, when only three weeks ago I was enjoying the hell out of the spec. I had so many hotstreaks that inferno blast couldn't keep up, and it was FUN.

They could have tweaked the numbers on the nukes themselves to accommodate for fire stacking the hell out of crit. They could have brought the numbers in line without demolishing the fluidity of the spec, but they didn't.

Then that thing with frost bomb, whether it actually makes it live or not is irrelevant. That the devs would even consider such a change without recognizing how much it breaks and how little it fixes, I just don't know anymore man...
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100 Draenei Mage
9380
I am arcane now and is a very boring spec...

Previously afflic locks was fun but now no more...
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90 Draenei Mage
7445
It definitely is for me. As long as my RL isn't unhappy enough to ask me to change specs I'll keep running Shan as fire. I don't have to be topping the meters (although, that's a lot of fun, too!) to enjoy my spec.
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100 Worgen Mage
13260
12/12/2012 09:35 PMPosted by Kaikou
So my question to Blizz and everyone else is? Is fun still the focus?


I've been wondering that myself... So many ways to go about bringing a spec back in line, and they seem to invariably take the path that makes the spec less fun overall. The numbers popping up on my screen are inconsequential to me, I don't care if my pyroblast crit for 300k or 350k. But I do care when I am forced to stand there spamming one spell over and over again, when only three weeks ago I was enjoying the hell out of the spec. I had so many hotstreaks that inferno blast couldn't keep up, and it was FUN.

They could have tweaked the numbers on the nukes themselves to accommodate for fire stacking the hell out of crit. They could have brought the numbers in line without demolishing the fluidity of the spec, but they didn't.

Then that thing with frost bomb, whether it actually makes it live or not is irrelevant. That the devs would even consider such a change without recognizing how much it breaks and how little it fixes, I just don't know anymore man...


I suspect if a blue or MVP does decide to post here it will be argue my definition of fun. What is fun to one person is not necessarily fun to others and they have to balance that. But that's all hokem. Fun is Fun.

Love the guild name btw.
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80 Human Priest
3225
Wake up Blizz, it isn't the nerfing of the spec that infuriates your players, its the complete lack of understanding that the fundamental reason people login and play is for fun.

To relax.


If the sole reason that people log on is to relax and have fun as you say then making balancing changes should add to your fun. Your argument seems to be that your fun should trump the fun of all the other people not playing whatever class you are playing.

I think this is always the part that is missed when these ridiculous arguments are made. What about my fun? What about how I feel when I log on? Should your class being overpowered and not balanced be allowed to harm my fun? Should Blizzard nerf one class that is causing the other 10 classes to not be as fun as they could be, or should they just say "hey we screwed up we are going to allow x class to stay OP so their feelings are not hurt", completely ignoring the other people playing different classes which are being adversely affected by the overpowered class in question.

More then you play this game.
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100 Worgen Mage
13260
Wake up Blizz, it isn't the nerfing of the spec that infuriates your players, its the complete lack of understanding that the fundamental reason people login and play is for fun.

To relax.


If the sole reason that people log on is to relax and have fun as you say then making balancing changes should add to your fun. Your argument seems to be that your fun should trump the fun of all the other people not playing whatever class you are playing.

I think this is always the part that is missed when these ridiculous arguments are made. What about my fun? What about how I feel when I log on? Should your class being overpowered and not balanced be allowed to harm my fun? Should Blizzard nerf one class that is causing the other 10 classes to not be as fun as they could be, or should they just say "hey we screwed up we are going to allow x class to stay OP so their feelings are not hurt", completely ignoring the other people playing different classes which are being adversely affected by the overpowered class in question.

More then you play this game.


You completely missed my point. And your comments appear a little trolly - but thats ok I will clarify.

I have nothing against nerfs/buffs or balancing. The issue lies in the inability of the developers to understand the whole class or spec and not just the DPS/HPS output.

Make each spec do the same damage or healing out put - I have no issue with that. Just when it is done, don't destroy the soul of the class in the process. That which makes that particular class or spec unique.
Edited by Graylen on 12/13/2012 2:31 PM PST
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81 Human Warrior
9530
12/13/2012 02:30 PMPosted by Graylen
I have no issue with that. Just when it is done, don't destroy the soul of the class in the process. That which makes that particular class or spec unique.


You still appear to be using crit reforges and gems

How exactyl did the nerf affect the "soul" of the mage class, you appear to be playing the same way you did before the nerf.
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100 Worgen Mage
13260
12/13/2012 02:47 PMPosted by Waifu
I have no issue with that. Just when it is done, don't destroy the soul of the class in the process. That which makes that particular class or spec unique.


You still appear to be using crit reforges and gems

How exactyl did the nerf affect the "soul" of the mage class, you appear to be playing the same way you did before the nerf.


You're right - I am. The nerf was applied to the foundation of our class - Crit - by reducing it, they sucked the fun out of it. I know little of warriors but I would assume a warrior with a 50% nerf to your rage generation would make the class less fun.

Again, this post isn't about the nerfing. Its about the QoL for all classes and Blizz's vendetta to balance the classes without consideration of the reason its players choose that particular class.
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81 Human Warrior
9530
12/13/2012 02:59 PMPosted by Graylen
You're right - I am. The nerf was applied to the foundation of our class - Crit - by reducing it, they sucked the fun out of it. I know little of warriors but I would assume a warrior with a 50% nerf to your rage generation would make the class less fun.


So them nerfing your best stat sucks the fun out of the class, even though it's still your best stat?

It's not like you aren't stacking crit still.
Edited by Waifu on 12/13/2012 3:15 PM PST
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80 Human Priest
3225


If the sole reason that people log on is to relax and have fun as you say then making balancing changes should add to your fun. Your argument seems to be that your fun should trump the fun of all the other people not playing whatever class you are playing.

I think this is always the part that is missed when these ridiculous arguments are made. What about my fun? What about how I feel when I log on? Should your class being overpowered and not balanced be allowed to harm my fun? Should Blizzard nerf one class that is causing the other 10 classes to not be as fun as they could be, or should they just say "hey we screwed up we are going to allow x class to stay OP so their feelings are not hurt", completely ignoring the other people playing different classes which are being adversely affected by the overpowered class in question.

More then you play this game.


You completely missed my point. And your comments appear a little trolly - but thats ok I will clarify.

I have nothing against nerfs/buffs or balancing. The issue lies in the inability of the developers to understand the whole class or spec and not just the DPS/HPS output.

Make each spec do the same damage or healing out put - I have no issue with that. Just when it is done, don't destroy the soul of the class in the process. That which makes that particular class or spec unique.


Your entire post gets dismissed because you assume you know the game better then those that created it.

You feel because you were nerfed in a way you didn't like that it means that Blizzard doesn't understand. Well i hate to break it to you but this has been the statements made by every class that has EVER been nerfed.

11 million people play this game so I am pretty sure they understand their game just fine, and the classes they designed.
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100 Worgen Mage
13260


You're right - I am. The nerf was applied to the foundation of our class - Crit - by reducing it, they sucked the fun out of it. I know little of warriors but I would assume a warrior with a 50% nerf to your rage generation would make the class less fun.

Again, this post isn't about the nerfing. Its about the QoL for all classes and Blizz's vendetta to balance the classes without consideration of the reason its players choose that particular class.
\

Listen to yourself, you obviously chose to roll mage because they were good. Now youre stuck witha balanced class and you cant stop crying on threads for 2 seconds to learn how to play it. You will have fun when you know how to play, trust me.


I am going to respect your armory stats and respond to this equally so.

I have been playing a mage for a long time - over 5 years. During the good and bad times I have always stayed in my class. I have stayed in fire for the most part and dealt with the ignite munching and RNG when it has arose.

I don't play the class because of the numbers, I play the class because it is fun.

I reiterate the point I am making. I don't care about the nerfing as long as it doesn't kill the spec in the process. They had plenty of options and chose the one most likely to take the fun out of it. Period.

They could have nerfed damage output from the Pyro, but instead they chose to hit our Pyro proc.

As a BM hunter, it would be the equivalent to taking away your pet. What's the point of being a hunter without a pet?
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81 Human Warrior
9530
They could have nerfed damage output from the Pyro, but instead they chose to hit our Pyro proc.

As a BM hunter, it would be the equivalent to taking away your pet. What's the point of being a hunter without a pet?


If they nerfed the damage of pyro, you would be back here complaining about how they crushed the soul of the spec because you don't hit as hard, thereby removing fun. It is no way comparable to removing a BM's pet. It's comparable to nerfing a BM's pet, certainly, but outright removal? That's just silliness.
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100 Worgen Mage
13260


You completely missed my point. And your comments appear a little trolly - but thats ok I will clarify.

I have nothing against nerfs/buffs or balancing. The issue lies in the inability of the developers to understand the whole class or spec and not just the DPS/HPS output.

Make each spec do the same damage or healing out put - I have no issue with that. Just when it is done, don't destroy the soul of the class in the process. That which makes that particular class or spec unique.


Your entire post gets dismissed because you assume you know the game better then those that created it.

You feel because you were nerfed in a way you didn't like that it means that Blizzard doesn't understand. Well i hate to break it to you but this has been the statements made by every class that has EVER been nerfed.
11 million people play this game so I am pretty sure they understand their game just fine, and the classes they designed.


I have no illusions of grandure, I will say this. Nerf the mages so there is balance. I don't care. Just do it in a manner which doesn't suck the fun out of the class in the process.
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100 Worgen Mage
13260
They could have nerfed damage output from the Pyro, but instead they chose to hit our Pyro proc.

As a BM hunter, it would be the equivalent to taking away your pet. What's the point of being a hunter without a pet?

If they nerfed the damage of pyro, you would be back here complaining about how they crushed the soul of the spec because you don't hit as hard, thereby removing fun. It is no way comparable to removing a BM's pet. It's comparable to nerfing a BM's pet, certainly, but outright removal? That's just silliness.


Perhaps pet removal was a little heavy handed, but the point is the same. The nerf to pyro is at least logical in its outcome. It makes sense, we hit too hard, reduce our damage output from our main spell. Don't stop us casting the spell in the 1st place.

You won't find any forum posts from me against a smart or logical nerf. Just the one's which effect the playability of the spec.
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90 Undead Mage
15575
While I kind of agree with a lot of the counter-arguments to the original post, I am kind of sad to see that everyone is sort of assuming that the OP is just whining about nerfs, and that her only concern is the effectiveness of the class, even though she explicitly states otherwise.

I think it should be noted that there were a lot of mages who knew exactly how OP frost was in PvP, and who stopped playing their mages because of it. Likewise, many mages will gladly admit that Combustion was pumping out too much damage, and that it needed a nerf. Just because a spec/class is really good does NOT mean that everyone enjoys playing it, and it IS possible for someone to dislike a spec/class based on how much fun they think it is. And, as somebody else mentioned, "fun" is subjective. I haven't been having much fun with the mage class since I got to level 90. Do I agree with the OP that Blizzard doesn't care about fun? No. Do I believe that the OP does care about fun and wants to...y'know, have fun, again? Absolutely.
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Fun is subjective.

It was never about balancing around being fun.

Fun is what you make it!

If it were about fun, who's version of "fun" is it.

/rolleyes
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100 Worgen Mage
13260
While I kind of agree with a lot of the counter-arguments to the original post, I am kind of sad to see that everyone is sort of assuming that the OP is just whining about nerfs, and that her only concern is the effectiveness of the class, even though she explicitly states otherwise.

I think it should be noted that there were a lot of mages who knew exactly how OP frost was in PvP, and who stopped playing their mages because of it. Likewise, many mages will gladly admit that Combustion was pumping out too much damage, and that it needed a nerf. Just because a spec/class is really good does NOT mean that everyone enjoys playing it, and it IS possible for someone to dislike a spec/class based on how much fun they think it is. And, as somebody else mentioned, "fun" is subjective. I haven't been having much fun with the mage class since I got to level 90. Do I agree with the OP that Blizzard doesn't care about fun? No. Do I believe that the OP does care about fun and wants to...y'know, have fun, again? Absolutely.


A well structured response. Nice.
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