Taste for Blood Isn't Working

90 Pandaren Warrior
15190
Blizzard we need to have a heart to heart. Arms Warrior to developer.

Taste For Blood, it ain't cutting it. You've gone down to nerfing it to stacking only ONCE in PVP. I'm not hear to cry about a nerf, but I am here to ask for in 5.2 you rework Arms Warriors in terms of DPS for both PVP and PVE.

In PVP it causes issues where other classes are blown up in a few seconds when all the stars align. In PVE it's too streaky and feels almost punishing when you get a high stack, due to neglecting other abilities (Mostly Mortal Strike). The mechanic is unfun and something many warriors, including myself, where worried about during beta.

Previously in Cataclsym, Arms had a fantastic rotation. Many of us where stunned that you decided to change it so much. We understood the need for some changes in the spec due to new rage mechanics. Understood. No problem. However what we got out of it, was nothing resembling the spec that had grown in popularity in PVE in 4.3.

While nothing can truly be done currently, due to the fact that the mechanic needs to be reworked at this point, I invite other warriors to voice their opinions the matter and what can be done to help the spec in both aspects of the game.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warrior
13280
Suggestion I've made on the Warrior forums:

-Make TFB proc off of Mastery strikes. This has the dual benefit of giving us some more scaling with a non-crit attribute, and makes TFB feel both a little more reliable (more overall procs past low gear levels, assuming it's tuned right), and more random (doesn't always proc just after using an Overpower).

-Make TFB rather than increasing the damage of Heroic Strike, give Overpower the ability to consume rage to deal extra damage, similar to old style execute. My math put it at 4-4.5% per rage, capped at 30 rage, makes it more or less equivalent to Slam in terms of rage efficiency, while eliminating the whole problem of a single huge critical strike.

-Move more of our rage generation into auto-attacks and away from procs/abilities. Right now we barely get half our rage generation from auto-attacks. This is a major part of why defensive stance doesn't really seem to hinder us. The other part being that our core rotation is all rage-free. An alternate route to go with this is to have rage costs vary by stance, so a defensive stance mortal strike might cost 10 rage instead of granting 10 rage. Either way, we need more incentive to stay in battle stance.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Warlock
10035
So besides making randoms cry on the forums, what does TfB actually do that's so bad?

(By randoms, I mean the people who get 1 shot and QQ, not you guys.)
Edited by Cursed on 12/12/2012 3:49 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Death Knight
12690
Taste for Blood
Requires Warrior (Arms)
Requires level 50
Your Mortal Strike also enables the use of Overpower.

In addition, Overpower hits have a 30% chance to enable the use of an additional Overpower and increase the damage of your next Heroic Strike or Cleave within 15 sec by 100%. This effect stacks up to 5 times.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heroic Strike
30 Rage Melee Range
Instant cast 1.5 sec cooldown
Requires Warrior
Requires level 1
Requires Melee Weapon
An attack that instantly deals 110% weapon damage plus 499 (154% plus (499 * 1.40) if a one - handed weapon is equipped).

Use when you have more Rage than you can spend.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Warrior
15190
So besides making randoms cry on the forums, what does TfB actually do that's so bad?

(By randoms, I mean the people who get 1 shot and QQ, not you guys.)


Basically its a huge roulette wheel. When you hit mortal strike, you get to use overpower. After that the Overpower you just used as a 30% chance to allow you to use Overpower again. Each successive Overpower increases the damage of your next Heroic Strike.

It's a very clunky and unfun mechanic. On one extreme you're never getting procs and fishing for rage, hoping you can find some. On the other, you proc too many times and can easily hit the rage cap, thus causing you to have extra rage, because the thing you're supposed to burn rage with (Heroic Strike) is still building up.
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Warrior
13555
A week from now the forums will be flooded with people complaining about how much damage Slam is doing.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warrior
14640
12/12/2012 05:37 AMPosted by Crowingzero
A week from now the forums will be flooded with people complaining about how much damage Slam is doing.


But slam does less damage then 1 stack of TfB!!!!!!!!
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Warrior
13555
Logic and common sense don't stop people from complaining. Something gets nerfed, everyone changes their playstyle, people complain about the new thing. Remember last xpac when charge and intercept were put on DR and warriors played Fury for about a month? Forums were flooded with people complaining about Fury's damage.

This week there have been two or three threads complaining that warrior ranged dps is too low. People will always find something to complain about, it's the nature of anonymity on the internet.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
12725
Logic and common sense don't stop people from complaining. Something gets nerfed, everyone changes their playstyle, people complain about the new thing. Remember last xpac when charge and intercept were put on DR and warriors played Fury for about a month? Forums were flooded with people complaining about Fury's damage.

This week there have been two or three threads complaining that warrior ranged dps is too low. People will always find something to complain about, it's the nature of anonymity on the internet.


Very true.

It happens like this, usually-

1. Class X is underpowered. People then complain legitimately that class X is underpowered. At the moment, Rogues come to mind.

2. Blizzard responds by buffing them, eventually.

3. The bads who play class X still vilify class Y that was killing them so easily before the buff.

4. Blizzard takes that to mean that class Y is over powered because so many people jumped on the hate train. Blizzard nerfs class Y.

5. Now class Y is underpowered. Repeat.

If you spread the nerfs and buffs out over long periods of time, you get exactly what we have today in WoW-

Some classes stay over powered and others under powered, then it switches. It's never balanced, just a flavor of the month game.

I don't blame Blizzard. This is a business for making money. They're just catering to the customers so that everyone gets their moment in the sunshine. A balanced game is rarely as fun as wtfpwning everyone for 6-8 months then rerolling an alt and leaving your nerfed class on the bench.

But some of us do wish it would be fair and balanced.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warrior
15145
12/11/2012 10:10 PMPosted by Secondwind
-Make TFB proc off of Mastery strikes. This has the dual benefit of giving us some more scaling with a non-crit attribute, and makes TFB feel both a little more reliable (more overall procs past low gear levels, assuming it's tuned right), and more random (doesn't always proc just after using an Overpower).


Might make mastery a good stat!
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Mage
16945
Yeah I dunno, things in general don't seem too good. Arms damage in pve is already bad and blizz still has to do pvp-specific nerfs to get their burst to non-ridiculous levels. Last season arms damage was pretty good in pve and decent in pvp... I'm not sure how they managed to swing the balance so wildly.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warlock
17000
12/12/2012 09:39 AMPosted by Kolzi
Last season arms damage was pretty good in pve and decent in pvp

Great in PvE (largely due to raidwide AoEs and outpacing Fury), and bad in PvP. Warriors don't get rage from raidwide AoEs anymore (at least not as effortlessly or as much), so the damage won't jump like it did.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warrior
13280
I missed the latter half of Cata, so can someone explain to me what nerfs got slapped on Fury (or buffs on Arms) that made Arms outpace it? I know that during the time I played, Arms was fun, but it was decidedly weaker than Fury, and Fury had better scaling on its side (just like it does now)
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Warrior
12710
Ghostcrawler has already issued a pretty gracious mea culpa on both counts, to wit: 1) Mists mechanics were awkward, unfun and inferior to Cataclysm's graceful, brilliantly simple rotation; 2) Taste for Blood's burst potential was bound to irritate other players.

Since I was so vocal during the beta on the first count — which, I'd like to think, can now in hindsight be considered obvious — I'm left wondering how testers can throw up a stop sign without putting developers on the defensive and paradoxically encouraging them to follow through with a controversial design. Taste for Blood shouldn't have made it to release.

I still offer up my Flash-based suggestion (http://www.gameandplayer.net/media/arms_rotation.html) as an example of how easy it should be for experienced, highly paid developers like Blizzard's to produce decent gameplay. Interesting rhythm, resource-controlled burst. They can do better than what's live — I know they can.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Warrior
15190
Ghostcrawler has already issued a pretty gracious mea culpa on both counts, to wit: 1) Mists mechanics were awkward, unfun and inferior to Cataclysm's graceful, brilliantly simple rotation; 2) Taste for Blood's burst potential was bound to irritate other players.

Since I was so vocal during the beta on the first count — which, I'd like to think, can now in hindsight be considered obvious — I'm left wondering how testers can throw up a stop sign without putting developers on the defensive and paradoxically encouraging them to follow through with a controversial design. Taste for Blood shouldn't have made it to release.

I still offer up my Flash-based suggestion (http://www.gameandplayer.net/media/arms_rotation.html) as an example of how easy it should be for experienced, highly paid developers like Blizzard's to produce decent gameplay. Interesting rhythm, resource-controlled burst. They can do better than what's live — I know they can.


Two things.

1.) I forgot I wasn't on reddit and tried to quote this like you do in reddit <_<;

2.) That's really awesome Aedilhild, I didn't know you had created that with Flash. Any chances you could get that going with Sudden Death actually worked in there? Regardless even that was more fun and noticeable than Arms in its current iteration.

Edit: READING IS HARD!
Edited by Curoar on 12/12/2012 11:44 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Warlock
17000
12/12/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Aedilhild
Since I was so vocal during the beta on the first count — which, I'd like to think, can now in hindsight be considered obvious

Pretty sure everyone was vocal about both points, and it was pretty obvious on both counts too. =P

12/12/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Aedilhild
I'm left wondering how testers can throw up a stop sign without putting developers on the defensive and paradoxically encouraging them to follow through with a controversial design.

I don't know if we can. Either the arguments presented work (see: some other classes' mechanics that were changed, including some of the Prot changes), or they don't (see: Arms). If their response to "Arms isn't as fun as it was in Cata" is "we disagree," and their response to "That's going to be waaaaaaaaay too much burst," is "we'll wait and see how it plays out on live," what could we possibly do? Short of time travelling to get data, they're inarguable positions.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Warrior
15190
That was Aedilhild, not me.


I'm a moron and the post has been corrected. Thats what happens when you try and discuss your classes problems, while trying to be a pokemon master.
Edited by Curoar on 12/12/2012 11:45 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Warrior
13280
12/12/2012 11:44 AMPosted by Curoar
That was Aedilhild, not me.


I'm a moron and the post has been corrected.


I saw the edit and tried to ninja delete. You ruined it.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]