Blood Fear balance.

90 Undead Warlock
WGS
7825
I already know that Blizzard is going to cop out and make Blood Fear a 15 second cooldown which would make it useless and nerf Warlocks even farther into oblivion, so I came up with some ideas that would give warlocks a slight buff and make them less of a pain to play against at the same time.

Balancing Blood Fear is really really simple. There have been times in intense matches where I've needed to be able to get a fear off in previous. I think the following changes would balance warlock CC:

Remove Blood Fear all together and replace it with Howl of Terror or Mortal Coil. In my opinion we need to have Howl and something, either coil or shadowfury to be able to peel a melee cleave in future seasons. Maybe increase the cooldown to compensate. I know this results in more instant CC, but I for one would rather have to deal with 2 possible howls and a coil or shadowfury than 6 Blood Fears per minute.

When DK's become viable TSG will just poop on every Warlock team by sitting on the healer, I feel that without atleast two non-fear CC abilities on a cooldown we will have a very hard time peeling.

Affliction: Allow us to Soulburn Fear to make it instant. Blood Fear on a 30 second cooldown and a resource cost would be more than balanced. It also promotes interesting gameplay by making you use Soulburn defensively, rather than offensively for a Haunt or row of dots.

Couple this with GoSac increasing dot damage by a bit and making UA hurt to dispel and Affliction will be in a good spot I think.

Destruction: I'd really prefer them to not add more abilities into the game so the best I could come up with is a passive talent that reads:
"After casting Ember Tap two consecutive times, your next Fear is instant cast."
I feel like giving embers a defensive use other than some cheesy heal would benefit the utility of the resource and the class as a whole.

Demo: In my honest and humble opinion, this spec has been terrible and unviable for the majority of 12 seasons now, I don't really care if it's not good. I hated playing it the short time it was viable, clunky 2 minute one shot mechanics and shifting forms is not what I rolled this class for. I'll roll a Feral if I want to do that.

Maybe these changes are bad, but in my opinion as a highly experienced player these changes would benefit the Warlock class and the pvp metagame as a whole tremendously.
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90 Undead Warlock
17640
12/12/2012 10:40 AMPosted by Stygz
I already know that Blizzard is going to cop out and make Blood Fear a 15 second cooldown which would make it useless and nerf Warlocks even farther into oblivion, so I came up with some ideas that would give warlocks a slight buff and make them less of a pain to play against at the same time.


Where might I obtain your clairvoyance?
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90 Undead Warlock
WGS
7825
Blizzard tends to take the easy way out when they nerf stuff, more duration to the cooldown seems to be the easiest way to stop people from abusing Blood Fear. Rather than slapping a bandaid on the problem, it needs to be fixed.

Ie. Taste for blood from 5 -> 3 -> 1 stack.
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90 Undead Warlock
6360
ok my idea's to fix blood fear is this

1. Make it a 5 yrd max range.
2. Blood fear does not replace fear. fear will still be casted but blood fear will ONLY be used to stop melee from training you.
3. make fear and blood fear DR.

With ALL 3 of those things blood fear will be fixed and all the complaining about blood fear is gone.
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90 Undead Warlock
WGS
7825
That wouldn't fix the problem though. 5yd range is equivalent to melee range so latency would often be a problem. Also, what if the melee are training your healer? You should just howl them at that point anyway.
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90 Undead Warlock
6360
yeah but having blood fear 30yrd range is dumb mechanic. cast fear....instants are making this game easy. if you cant juke a interupt practice more....ask a friend to try to interupt you when your casting spells. 5yrd range would make it so you can instantly peel for yourself. if you need a peel for your partner you got shadowfury or mortal coil and you also have another partner. right now PoM ring/poly and blood fear are 2 of the most dumb instant cc's. if blood fear wasnt so strong i wouldnt be taking it. i even drop blood fear for certin arena's. my idea's make it no OP to the point it is now. you can use it extremely fast offensively and defensivly. where as if we had to cast you would have to communicate more with your partners on when cc is going out instead of it being instant.
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I'm fairly certain TSG already poops on warlock teams.

I mean whenever I run it and we see a warlock its free points.
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90 Undead Warlock
17640
12/12/2012 11:01 AMPosted by Htcwarlock
you can use it extremely fast offensively and defensivly.


there is no more or less communication required with blood fear than any other type of fear.
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90 Orc Warrior
11475
saying blood fear would be usless on a 15s cooldown? are we even playing the same game? When bc and early wrath were around, people complained about fear... as in the CC existing at all. and now, now you get an instant fear with a 30 yard range... and you think keeping it at 10seconds is somehow good? I hope not.

and locks don't need more peels or more survivability. locks are hardly even kill targets now and you won't have to worry about tsg when your dying to feral/enhance. port + demonic gate + shadowfury being baseline + pet sac + bla bla bla... if locks are dying to quickly at this point from certain classes, those classes need to be toned down... locks don't need more because they are already tough as nails vs caster comps.

I agree that affl could use a slight buff, but not much. as the expansion continues to move along, and the nerfs that have hit healing, spreading damage is already viable.

anyways, but honestly, real talk. blood fear is broken. all the instant CC is broken. yes... some of it can work, but on the whole the game is getting annoying if you are constantly on the receiving end of fears in some comps. you can literally spam blood fear until you get in ranged of a target. there has to be far greater trade off if you want mechanics like this in the game. the whole idea of making everything instant was a bad one. there is far less finesse in the game.
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90 Undead Warlock
WGS
7825
saying blood fear would be usless on a 15s cooldown? are we even playing the same game? When bc and early wrath were around, people complained about fear... as in the CC existing at all. and now, now you get an instant fear with a 30 yard range... and you think keeping it at 10seconds is somehow good? I hope not.

and locks don't need more peels or more survivability. locks are hardly even kill targets now and you won't have to worry about tsg when your dying to feral/enhance. port + demonic gate + shadowfury being baseline + pet sac + bla bla bla... if locks are dying to quickly at this point from certain classes, those classes need to be toned down... locks don't need more because they are already tough as nails vs caster comps.

I agree that affl could use a slight buff, but not much. as the expansion continues to move along, and the nerfs that have hit healing, spreading damage is already viable.

anyways, but honestly, real talk. blood fear is broken. all the instant CC is broken. yes... some of it can work, but on the whole the game is getting annoying if you are constantly on the receiving end of fears in some comps. you can literally spam blood fear until you get in ranged of a target. there has to be far greater trade off if you want mechanics like this in the game. the whole idea of making everything instant was a bad one. there is far less finesse in the game.


Huge indication you didn't read my original post.
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90 Undead Mage
14535
They should give warlock mortal coil, howl of terror, and shadowfury baseline, remove blood fear.
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90 Undead Warlock
WGS
7825
12/12/2012 11:21 AMPosted by Cynthasia
They should give warlock mortal coil, howl of terror, and shadowfury baseline, remove blood fear.


I agree with this, only we should only get to choose two of them. Coil has been baseline since release, so make use choose the other.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
1990
just remove blood fear, return fear back to 1.5 second cast (relic of wotlk nerfs) make deathcoil baseline again.

then in place of blood fear give us something to deal with melee (cripple please)
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90 Pandaren Shaman
1990
would also be nice if they made soul-link useful in pvp outside of the sacrifice buff.

eg 15%-20% damage reduction while the pet is active instead of the 50% shared crap.
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90 Undead Warlock
6845
12/12/2012 11:16 AMPosted by Adroite
and locks don't need more peels or more survivability. locks are hardly even kill targets now and you won't have to worry about tsg when your dying to feral/enhance. port + demonic gate + shadowfury being baseline + pet sac + bla bla bla... if locks are dying to quickly at this point from certain classes, those classes need to be toned down... locks don't need more because they are already tough as nails vs caster comps.


I don't think we're playing the same game...

in a way actually, we're not playing the same game, because my opponents and I are an entire tier of gear ahead of you, and a thousand rating higher than you.

Anyways, in my world, anytime I get touched by pretty much anything, I'm literally dead. I'm either using 2 minute cooldowns, or my health is dropping until I'm dead.

This would have been obvious just from looking at warlock spells- we lost 20% passive mitigation and 20% bonus healing from cata, that's an absolutely insane amount of defense. There are so many top warlocks saying our survivability is absolutely awful, nobody saying it's remotely close to fine besides undergeared, mediocre players who ran into a warlock who stacked 4 different long cooldown defensives and managed to live for 15 seconds because of it.

tldr get a clue before you get an opinion thanks.
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90 Undead Mage
14535
12/12/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Sadiie
just remove blood fear, return fear back to 1.5 second cast (relic of wotlk nerfs) make deathcoil baseline again.


If they made fear 1.5 sec cast time, would like to see them reduce poly to base 1.5 sec cast as well.
I know they are not the same CC, since they both have strengths and weaknesses in different situations, but they both last 8 sec and have no CD.
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saying blood fear would be usless on a 15s cooldown? are we even playing the same game? When bc and early wrath were around, people complained about fear... as in the CC existing at all. and now, now you get an instant fear with a 30 yard range... and you think keeping it at 10seconds is somehow good? I hope not.

and locks don't need more peels or more survivability. locks are hardly even kill targets now and you won't have to worry about tsg when your dying to feral/enhance. port + demonic gate + shadowfury being baseline + pet sac + bla bla bla... if locks are dying to quickly at this point from certain classes, those classes need to be toned down... locks don't need more because they are already tough as nails vs caster comps.

I agree that affl could use a slight buff, but not much. as the expansion continues to move along, and the nerfs that have hit healing, spreading damage is already viable.

anyways, but honestly, real talk. blood fear is broken. all the instant CC is broken. yes... some of it can work, but on the whole the game is getting annoying if you are constantly on the receiving end of fears in some comps. you can literally spam blood fear until you get in ranged of a target. there has to be far greater trade off if you want mechanics like this in the game. the whole idea of making everything instant was a bad one. there is far less finesse in the game.


A 20 second AoE stun is every bit as broken as a 10 second single target fear. I'm still surprised Shockwave hasnt had a cooldown increase, and if something like blood fear gets one, with the myriad of fear breaks in this game compared to stun breaks, I really hope shockwave does too.

I'm tired of priest fears, druid blinds, warrior's stunlocking, instant rings of frost, etc. etc.

I agree a lot of the instant stuff needs long cds, especially the aoe stuff. It ought to be very long. having some druid aoe blind on a shorter CD then a rogue's single target is freakin stupid.

However, things would also have to change in regards to interrupts and such, because the less cc in the game, the more melee dominant the game becomes. Right now its caster dominant because they usually have better survival tools and damage then melee classes by nature of being ranged+ the same crap melee have. Jacked up game.
Edited by Healubaddies on 12/12/2012 11:50 AM PST
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86 Dwarf Warrior
4540
I think Warlocks shouldn´t have to choose 1 out of those 3 talents. Not in the situation this game is today. Remove Blood Fear and then let them have, for exemple, How of Terror, and then having to choose between Shadowfury or Mortal Coil.
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12/12/2012 11:48 AMPosted by Distortion
I think Warlocks shouldn´t have to choose 1 out of those 3 talents. Not in the situation this game is today. Remove Blood Fear and then let them have, for exemple, How of Terror, and then having to choose between Shadowfury or Mortal Coil.


Yea, I wouldnt mind seeing blood fear replaced with coil or shadowfury. It's hard to cast anything in this game now. I mean casters manage, but I dont think some melee realize how irritating it really is when you are getting trained to have to dodge 2 interrupts, maybe a 3rd, get stunned, CC'd, pushback from attacks, charged again, and half the time interrupts are back up.

I play both sides of the ball, a feral and a lock. I know when you are melee it feels different then when you are a caster. But trust me, trying to cast spells when getting trained with the amount of low cd cc in this game is a crapshoot at times, and verges on frustrating.
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90 Undead Warlock
WGS
7825
Some people just don't know what its like trying to peel for a resto shaman against TSG. If you're the only caster on the team, as a Warlock you have to weave fears in between basically about 45 seconds of CC immunity. They deal with your first set of DR's by trinket and a cleanse, the second is dealt with all by "defensive" cooldowns. (all the while your shaman is helpess, even moreso now that they cant totem while silenced.)

I also see triple dps teams making a comeback with this passive healing nerf.
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