Blood Fear balance.

90 Orc Warrior
11475
12/12/2012 11:20 AMPosted by Stygz
Huge indication you didn't read my original post.
'

I even commented on what you said. o.o you clearly didn't read mine either.
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90 Orc Warrior
11475
12/12/2012 11:45 AMPosted by Healubaddies
A 20 second AoE stun is every bit as broken as a 10 second single target fear. I'm still surprised Shockwave hasnt had a cooldown increase, and if something like blood fear gets one, with the myriad of fear breaks in this game compared to stun breaks, I really hope shockwave does too.


If the thread was about warriors sure, buts its about blood fears. I don't care for shockwave much, but at the same time warriors had trashy peels and trashy utility for an expansion.. then we got to much.. then we got some taken away. there is a lot that can be discussed here, but not this thread.
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100 Orc Shaman
7545
A 20 second AoE stun is every bit as broken as a 10 second single target fear. I'm still surprised Shockwave hasnt had a cooldown increase, and if something like blood fear gets one, with the myriad of fear breaks in this game compared to stun breaks, I really hope shockwave does too.


If the thread was about warriors sure, buts its about blood fears. I don't care for shockwave much, but at the same time warriors had trashy peels and trashy utility for an expansion.. then we got to much.. then we got some taken away. there is a lot that can be discussed here, but not this thread.


So basically, as I figured, you are ok rationalizing something like Shockwave because you need it? That is what I'm gathering from what you just said, that in a roundabout way you are fine with shockwave. I figured as much.

Shockwave is every bit as rediculous as blood fear, if not more so because its AoE.

I just find it funny when other classes vilify a CC when they have one over the top one themselves which they usually find A ok for their class. Shockwave should be 40-45 seconds at least, not 20.
Edited by Healubaddies on 12/12/2012 12:14 PM PST
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90 Orc Warrior
11475
12/12/2012 11:45 AMPosted by Healubaddies
A 20 second AoE stun is every bit as broken as a 10 second single target fear. I'm still surprised Shockwave hasnt had a cooldown increase, and if something like blood fear gets one, with the myriad of fear breaks in this game compared to stun breaks, I really hope shockwave does too.


If the thread was about warriors sure, buts its about blood fears. I don't care for shockwave much, but at the same time warriors had trashy peels and trashy utility for an expansion.. then we got to much.. then we got some taken away. there is a lot that can be discussed here, but not this thread.

I don't think we're playing the same game...

in a way actually, we're not playing the same game, because my opponents and I are an entire tier of gear ahead of you, and a thousand rating higher than you.

Anyways, in my world, anytime I get touched by pretty much anything, I'm literally dead. I'm either using 2 minute cooldowns, or my health is dropping until I'm dead.

This would have been obvious just from looking at warlock spells- we lost 20% passive mitigation and 20% bonus healing from cata, that's an absolutely insane amount of defense. There are so many top warlocks saying our survivability is absolutely awful, nobody saying it's remotely close to fine besides undergeared, mediocre players who ran into a warlock who stacked 4 different long cooldown defensives and managed to live for 15 seconds because of it.

tldr get a clue before you get an opinion thanks.


oh gz on getting glad bro. you realize that doesn't validate a broken game or broken mechanics especially when you're the benefactor. Its awesome the class is so trashy right now that even good players actually want to justify this garbage.

the game I play, my opinion on that game, are as valid in this situations as any. I don't have to be a multi glad to sit down and say... hey.. this !@#$ isn't fair. Its not hard to see the game on the whole has moved in a direction that a lot of players don't like. If you need more survivability, its not you thats broken, which I said. Read the damn post.

You are sporting almost a 2400 rating and you actually want to %^-*! about lock survivability? Wtf do you want? Went 2v1 vs a lock in 2s the other day for points and guy tanked 1.1+ million damage before dying. is that legit to you? You think you should be able to tank @#$%ing everything and not have to cast a damn thing? gz man. the game you play is obviously fun!
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43 Human Rogue
140
I already know that Blizzard is going to cop out and make Blood Fear a 15 second cooldown which would make it useless and nerf Warlocks even farther into oblivion, so I came up with some ideas that would give warlocks a slight buff and make them less of a pain to play against at the same time.

Balancing Blood Fear is really really simple. There have been times in intense matches where I've needed to be able to get a fear off in previous. I think the following changes would balance warlock CC:

Remove Blood Fear all together and replace it with Howl of Terror or Mortal Coil. In my opinion we need to have Howl and something, either coil or shadowfury to be able to peel a melee cleave in future seasons. Maybe increase the cooldown to compensate. I know this results in more instant CC, but I for one would rather have to deal with 2 possible howls and a coil or shadowfury than 6 Blood Fears per minute.

When DK's become viable TSG will just poop on every Warlock team by sitting on the healer, I feel that without atleast two non-fear CC abilities on a cooldown we will have a very hard time peeling.

Affliction: Allow us to Soulburn Fear to make it instant. Blood Fear on a 30 second cooldown and a resource cost would be more than balanced. It also promotes interesting gameplay by making you use Soulburn defensively, rather than offensively for a Haunt or row of dots.

Couple this with GoSac increasing dot damage by a bit and making UA hurt to dispel and Affliction will be in a good spot I think.

Destruction: I'd really prefer them to not add more abilities into the game so the best I could come up with is a passive talent that reads:
"After casting Ember Tap two consecutive times, your next Fear is instant cast."
I feel like giving embers a defensive use other than some cheesy heal would benefit the utility of the resource and the class as a whole.

Demo: In my honest and humble opinion, this spec has been terrible and unviable for the majority of 12 seasons now, I don't really care if it's not good. I hated playing it the short time it was viable, clunky 2 minute one shot mechanics and shifting forms is not what I rolled this class for. I'll roll a Feral if I want to do that.

Maybe these changes are bad, but in my opinion as a highly experienced player these changes would benefit the Warlock class and the pvp metagame as a whole tremendously.


Moving howl or coil to blood fear's place is a pretty viable solution, and has been suggested by quite a few high rated warlocks.

It does result in more available instant cc, but it isn't every 10 seconds on an 8 second cc at 30 yard range.
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90 Undead Warlock
6845
oh gz on getting glad bro. you realize that doesn't validate a broken game or broken mechanics especially when you're the benefactor. Its awesome the class is so trashy right now that even good players actually want to justify this garbage.

the game I play, my opinion on that game, are as valid in this situations as any. I don't have to be a multi glad to sit down and say... hey.. this !@#$ isn't fair. Its not hard to see the game on the whole has moved in a direction that a lot of players don't like. If you need more survivability, its not you thats broken, which I said. Read the damn post.

You are sporting almost a 2400 rating and you actually want to %^-*! about lock survivability? Wtf do you want? Went 2v1 vs a lock in 2s the other day for points and guy tanked 1.1+ million damage before dying. is that legit to you? You think you should be able to tank @#$%ing everything and not have to cast a damn thing? gz man. the game you play is obviously fun!


It doesn't really have anything to do with opinion, or me being glad, or w/e, it's right there in the numbers, we lost 20% mitigation and 20% bonus healing, we have 0 mitigation and take absurd amounts of damage. The class is bad mostly because of how much damage we take.

You actually do need to have gear and be able to use your globals properly to have any sort of perspective on this. There's no need to get defensive about it- the game you see with your blue gear and mediocre play is simply not the way the game actually works. sorry. I read you say that it's other classes being broken, but apparently you didn't read that I take insane damage from ANYTHING that touches me.

Yes, I'm high rated, I'm good at this game, you seem to be implying that makes me wrong somehow? I also play with a mage because it's literally the only class that can keep me alive. If I play with anything else I get rushed down and die constantly to inferior players.

Your last point actually makes my entire argument- you complain about lock survivability because a warlock stacked every single cooldown at the same time to live for a little bit in a 2v1. The problem, of course, is that you have to use those cooldowns every time you even get touched, which means that in real arena situations, you spam cooldowns, run out of them, and then die.

If you want it to seem like you have a real opinion, try to avoid raging and typing like a mongoloid. In the meantime, stay small peasant
Edited by Domesauce on 12/12/2012 12:41 PM PST
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90 Orc Warrior
11475
So basically, as I figured, you are ok rationalizing something like Shockwave because you need it? That is what I'm gathering from what you just said, that in a roundabout way you are fine with shockwave. I figured as much.

Shockwave is every bit as rediculous as blood fear, if not more so because its AoE.

I just find it funny when other classes vilify a CC when they have one over the top one themselves which they usually find A ok for their class. Shockwave should be 40-45 seconds at least, not 20.


no, no where did I said we needed shockwave. I said we need utility. thats it. and we did. the class offered nothing coming into mop compared to cata. def needed something, but again, there is a lot to be discussed in respect to that.

I never said I was fine with shockwave either. wtf man. does everyone just want to be a !@%@@*%# on this forum. I also said this thread was about blood fear, not shockwave, so why bring it up? I know there is a lot that is unfair in this game, but !@#$ing get of my back for making a warrior a year ago and deciding to continue to play it and commenting on these threads.

And shockwave is not every bit as ridiculous as blood fear. they are both ridiculous for very different reasons. the issue with warriors is not shockwave anyways, its the %^-*ing damage on the whole. do you see people complaining about monk aoe stuns? !@#$ no, because monks are almost garbage. if warriors had shockwave last season it wouldn't have made one bit of a difference because the class on the whole was terrible.
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90 Troll Priest
10565
Make it so it doesn't take you to African and I'd be happy...until I get blood feared again...
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90 Orc Warrior
11475
12/12/2012 12:33 PMPosted by Domesauce
The class is bad mostly because of how much damage we take.


and thats the !@#$ing point. everyone is taking a lot of damage. on the whole some classes are taking to much... but its not because they need more ways to survive, its that damage on the whole needs to be toned down.

and you know what game I see. its watching 7 hours of venruki play last week and 5 hours of veev playing and 10 hours of reckful so I can improve on what I have learned the last few seasons. I don't need to be sitting in your shows to understand the game on the whole. Where you're at, what you're doing is irrelevant to my earlier comments that blood fear and instant CC on the whole has made the game less enjoyable and has watered down some of the core fundamentals of the game. And this is not an isolated opinion.

12/12/2012 12:33 PMPosted by Domesauce
Yes, I'm high rated, I'm good at this game, you seem to be implying that makes me wrong somehow? I also play with a mage because it's literally the only class that can keep me alive. If I play with anything else I get rushed down and die constantly to inferior players.


there is nothing wrong obviously, but lording over another player because you have a higher rating and dismissing their comments is ridiculous.

12/12/2012 12:33 PMPosted by Domesauce
Your last point actually makes my entire argument- you complain about lock survivability because a warlock stacked every single cooldown at the same time to live for a little bit in a 2v1. The problem, of course, is that you have to use those cooldowns every time you even get touched, which means that in real arena situations, you spam cooldowns, run out of them, and then die.


man, thats every class though. locks can completely negate that damage... 100% no class, not even paladins can do that. bubble, block... instantly dispelled. but a lock? they can take 8 seconds worth of damage and have it halved or have a massive bubble on a one minute CD. If killing the pet was more viable, then I would say otherwise, but its not. In the time It take for me to get reck back, a lock could have used pet sac 5 times, health stone and dark regen twice... hardly a skimpy amount of survival tools. As a comparison, my mage last night, I blocked and it instantly got dispelled and I instantly died.

12/12/2012 12:33 PMPosted by Domesauce
If you want it to seem like you have a real opinion, try to avoid raging and typing like a mongoloid. In the meantime, stay small peasant


If you want to have a valid point, try actually bringing up one. enjoy your time in the sun in this land of pixels and space goats.
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95 Pandaren Shaman
2105
12/12/2012 11:45 AMPosted by Cynthasia
just remove blood fear, return fear back to 1.5 second cast (relic of wotlk nerfs) make deathcoil baseline again.


If they made fear 1.5 sec cast time, would like to see them reduce poly to base 1.5 sec cast as well.
I know they are not the same CC, since they both have strengths and weaknesses in different situations, but they both last 8 sec and have no CD.


Why would they have to change poly? you still have plenty of instants to deal with melee
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