server seems to be dieing

90 Pandaren Monk
11710
not to sound negative but I came to this server in late wrath and seen it declining steadily, in both pop and player ability. That is not to say being causal is bad but it is making much more difficult for those in less popular or less elitist guilds to successfully down content and as a result is forcing more players from this server. That being said I would like to suggest either opening shandris to free realm moves to reinvigorate the populace. To try and bring this server around so as to keep it from becoming a realm thats nothing but elitists, trolls, and those who want to be carried and put forth no effort, again no offense intended, but it is as I see it. At least on the horde side since as it stands currently raid progression for many guilds is slim to none. if not then it may lead to many more leaving because they are unable to join guilds that have progressed since they would not have need of anymore members, or others to quit all together. Due to only being able to do lfr, which can be a joke, heroics, dailys, challenge modes or pvp, which limits what people can do, and can make many feel quite bored.
Edited by Pandãmonium on 12/12/2012 5:35 PM PST
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90 Troll Shaman
4200
12/12/2012 05:08 PMPosted by Pandãmonium
not to sound negative but I came to this server in late wrath and seen it declining steadily, in both pop and player ability, not to say being causal is bad but it is making much more difficult for those in less popular or less elitist guilds to successfully down content and as a result is forcing more players from this server that being said I would like to suggest either opening shandris to free realm moves to reinvigorate the populace and try and bring this server around so as to keep it from becoming a realm thats nothing but elitists, trolls, and those who want to be carried and put forth no effort, again no offense intended, but it is as I see it at least on the horde side since as it stands currently raid progression for many guilds is slim to none.


Longest run-on sentence achievement.
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90 Undead Warlock
12745
I do agree that there is definitely a population imbalance between servers like Illidan and Frostmourne compared to the other 240 plus servers but I hardly think Shandris is dying. Keep in mind that even though we are far from the most progressed servers, there is still over 80 servers out there in worst shape then us.

I also don't know what you mean by "elitist" guilds, what would your definition of elitist be?

As for raid progression Horde side, there is at least 6 horde guilds I see constantly making progression in the new content. The problem might be with the other 20 horde guilds not making progress. Maybe if less progressed guilds would think about combining raid groups that might help some groups.
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90 Pandaren Monk
11710
while that is true, the more casual guilds like my own, despite trying have yet to clear MV, even with the recruiting efforts we have made, having only downed stone guard, and that was in a pug. as for elitists I mean like those that have already stepped into terrace on normal or heroic, as well as fear on heroic and are selling these runs. Which does mark them as successful, im not saying elitist guilds are bad, by all means there full of people who love the challenge, however many are hardcore and raid way longer then some like to, again personal preference. it feels as though the populace on this server has no wish to try anything challenging, unless their already in a guild that has cleared content, to actually succeed and feel accomplished and would rather have it handed to them by a guild who's done all the work. making it difficult for lesser guilds, or more causal guilds to clear raids. in addition to that we have spent weeks to months recruiting and getting nothing but empty nets. I guess an essence im trying to say is that the number of potential recruits is dwindling and its putting a strain on the causal guilds. as for combing, in my experience since after BC it has never been a good idea because one guild ends up thinking it better then the other.
Edited by Pandãmonium on 12/12/2012 6:17 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
10535
12/12/2012 06:15 PMPosted by Pandãmonium
however many are hardcore and raid way longer then some like to


I don't have much to add to this conversation other than just to point out that a common misconception that a lot of people have about the top guilds on this realm is that they are so much farther progressed than others because they raid for ungodly hours that nobody else would be able to handle. I have heard it firsthand on the alliance side, and though I obviously can't speak for HDMW, I would imagine that some people have the same viewpoint about them.

I believe Verdict and HDMW both share similar raiding schedules with 9 hours a week. We raid 3 hours a night, 3 days a week. I concede that might be more than some people like to raid, but if you look at various other guilds on the server, almost everyone raids for very similar amounts of time. Epitome is the only 2 day guild I can think of off the top of my head.

In my opinion, the success of certain guilds on this server comes from having a core group of individuals who have the same goal in mind, and who focus on reaching that goal each raid. It's not a skill issue. It's not a numbers issue. It's far from a "they raid way longer than anyone else wants to" issue.

I do agree completely that recruitment on Shandris is very difficult, but that's a different topic altogether.

Best of luck to you. /salute
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90 Undead Warlock
12745
I believe Verdict and HDMW both share similar raiding schedules with 9 hours a week. We raid 3 hours a night, 3 days a week.


Yup, that's all we raid as well.
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100 Human Paladin
17835
I would just like to point out this topic from over a year ago...

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3229037036?page=1

seems that this realm has been dieing for a very long time now according to some people lol.

I said it over a year ago and I will say it again. "I dont get the whole mindset that if the realm does not have tons of highly progressed guilds that it must be dead."

Kran brought up some very good points about this server in relation to many others out there that are in far worse shape than ours. Shandris is not a hotbed of raiding nor an elite pvp server but the player base is steady the AH is stocked and for the casual gamer there are plenty of opportunities to find groups.

There are not many reasons to transfer off this server IMO other than if you are looking at trying to find a server with a guild that is trying to rush hardmodes or if you are looking for a better pvp server. There are open spots in most of the best raiding guilds on the server so if your looking for something of that nature you don't have much of an excuse and if you are just playing casually what is it that people are looking for that you cant find here?

The death of this server is widely overrated.
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90 Undead Warlock
12745
If you're struggling with your current 10 man raid group, I present to you;
"Krankheit's 3 Rules to Raiding"
Take them or leave them, but these have always helped me.

1. "Casual" does not mean irresponsible. You are expected to be on time and ready to raid, even if it is only 1 or 2 nights a week. A 3 hour raid night can easily be knocked down to a 2 hour night if people continue to show up late and unprepared. You don't need to be the most hardcore raider to be on time.

2. There is no excuse for not knowing your class. I'm not saying that you need to know all the math associated with your class, but you should at least know your main stats, how to gem/reforge and your rotation. There is literally 1000 websites out there that will teach you how to play WoW, hell if you want there are addons that will tell you what the exact rotation is for some classes.

If you have a raider in your group that is under performing, let them know. There is nothing wrong with discussing how someone can improve at the game. I've said it before, but the first step in becoming better at WoW is admitting that you are terrible at the game.

3. If you're not having fun, move on. The best raid groups I have been in, are the groups that I enjoy showing up for. It might sound cold to leave friends behind, but if clearing content is your idea of fun and your current group isn't, then find the right group that has the same mindset as you. You will be better off because you will be happier, and I can guarantee that if it is that important for you to clear content in a timely fashion, then staying behind will only make you a jaded husk of a player.
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92 Goblin Priest
14600
I dont necesarily this that it is lack of people, nore lack of talent on the server. Like someone stated earlier, there are a lot worse off servers than Shandris.

The problems lies in this... There are many good players, and even more people that are interested in raiding. However, there are 5 times as many guilds as there are groups that can actually raid.

12/12/2012 06:15 PMPosted by Pandãmonium
since after BC it has never been a good idea because one guild ends up thinking it better then the other.


The option of merging or joining another guild is always there, people are just gun shy to do it. Mergers don't always work, we all know this. But the comment about one guild thinking they are better than the other doesnt make sense because at that point, you are all one guild.

That being said... We are looking for more people to fill ranks in our groups. Both casual and players with a more competative mind set are wanted.
Edited by Wingwing on 12/13/2012 9:12 AM PST
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90 Gnome Warlock
11980
Exactly what Krank said. The definition of "casual" is very, very broad, but I think some people take it to mean "Someone else will take care of the logistics, I just need to show up" which is unfortunately what harpoons a lot of guilds. To me, casual just means that you may have an amorphous raid schedule or group (or both).

The difference between casual and hardcore isn't the rate at which fights are beaten (although that is usually a secondary result), it is the amount of preparation that is willing to be put in by the members of the raid team. If a guild that has an irregular schedule or irregular raid team shows up prepared to down 6/6 in MGV, that's entirely possible if they know the strategies and can execute those strategies. Also, being prepared eliminates downtime of having to explain entire fights or specific mechanics. Theorycrafting is a nice skill to have and it will certainly help you, but its not totally necessary to be in a "hardcore" guild. As long as you understand your stats, understand why stats are as important as they are and understand how to utilize your class' abilities, you'll be a perfectly viable raider.

There's no magic wand that top guilds have, it's all about preparation, accountability and a willingness to wipe and learn instead of gripe and whine.
Edited by Fïlovirus on 12/13/2012 10:57 AM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
12745
12/12/2012 05:08 PMPosted by Pandãmonium
it may lead to many more leaving because they are unable to join guilds that have progressed since they would not have need of anymore members


Also just to point out from the first post, since we redid our webpage ((hdmwraiding.com) Shameless plug here), we have only received 3 new applications, and one of them was from off server.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
12/13/2012 07:19 AMPosted by Subrosian
Guilds on Shandris are raiding 12-hours to the best of my knowledge...


We raid 9 hours a week, too many schedule conflicts to fit in more. Occasionally we'll go for 12, but not very often.

12/13/2012 07:19 AMPosted by Subrosian
Guilds that succeed don't start in any different of a place than guilds that fail. What bridges the gap are good decisions and hard work. If you're not willing to put in the hours, lack the experience to make the right decisions, or simply can't get the kite off the ground - then you move on and help an existing raid team.


So true. Our experience at the beginning of the expansion was so rocky, it seemed destined to fail from the start, but we couldn't allow that. :)
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90 Orc Monk
7265
Shandris is far from 'dead' as you talk about it.

In relation to recruitment, you say you've been on a huge recruitment binge for the past month or so but in reality i don't think i've seen a recruitment post or anything really in trade chat. Maybe you're going about it the wrong way or not getting the word out enough?

Sorry if that seems blunt i'm just telling you my thoughts, i don't mean to sound like an @$$. A lot of <H D M W>'s members were apart of Shandris earlier that had left and we brought back, and a few off-server members that we've brought over. Overall i'd say Horde side population has increased, not declined.

Just my two-cents.
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90 Orc Death Knight
8830
Its like this....

Reason this server has guilds that progress and guilds that dont...

The guilds that clear content are ones who keep guilds needs infront of single minded people needs...

If you look at all the guilds that are 4/6 mv on this server.... most of there current 10 man raid roster is 7-9 people and need to pug...

Shandris is full of little guilds that have stubborn headed guild leaders and officers... they fill they are entitle to some kind of role of a guild.. where most mistakes are made are that you have to put your raid team first... If you was to take all the little horde guilds on server other then HDMW , UG and Epitome, merge them... you would have 10 solid teams that would be in heroics....

but you wont.... so stop !@#$%in about this server... this server is not dead.. just filled with a bunch of egos.....
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90 Orc Death Knight
8830
Muff said!

Also ... i notice that the people who post these post are alwasy in the little !@# guilds that wont merge cause they want to be a gm and be in control
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
12995
Yeah, it's pretty much true.
When I came to HDMW compared to now, there are 4-5 people who are the same, they recruited 1-2 people from the server and a few others from off server (including myself)

We now have a full 10 man raid team with 2-3 bench players who are able to come in when needed (or when loot drops that they need) and perform to the ability of the person they are replacing.

Take every two 4/6 guilds, merge them, my bets are that those new guilds will become at least 8-10/16 in a week or two.

Btw, just because you're the GM of a guild, does not mean you're entitled to leading the raids, the RL is ideally the person with the most raid experience and takes the time to learn the fights.
Edited by Salloreon on 12/14/2012 8:28 PM PST
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