Question

90 Tauren Druid
8710
If Resto druids are ok (as per blizzards statement) why the heck is it ok that Holy Pallies in inferior gear AND PVP GEAR can do 2x our heals? Why is this ok? Holy Pally = broken.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
12/13/2012 05:45 AMPosted by Tonydanza
If Resto druids are ok (as per blizzards statement) why the heck is it ok that Holy Pallies in inferior gear AND PVP GEAR can do 2x our heals? Why is this ok? Holy Pally = broken.


Holy pallies are in a good place. Rdruids just need mechanical and regen fixes.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
12/13/2012 05:53 AMPosted by Keirisonis
Holy pallies are in a good place. Rdruids just need mechanical and regen fixes.


Agreed. Holy pallies are in a good place. Rdruids need to be brought up, not Hpallies taken down. It just makes more sense to adjust one class than it is to bring the rest down to your level.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
12/13/2012 05:45 AMPosted by Tonydanza
why the heck is it ok that Holy Pallies in inferior gear AND PVP GEAR can do 2x our heals? Why is this ok? Holy Pally = broken.


Not trying to be a douche but that sounds more like a player issue than a class issue. Paladins are in a good spot, but they are not doing double your healing unless you are being carried.
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90 Tauren Druid
8710
12/13/2012 07:20 AMPosted by Sadiemay
why the heck is it ok that Holy Pallies in inferior gear AND PVP GEAR can do 2x our heals? Why is this ok? Holy Pally = broken.


Not trying to be a douche but that sounds more like a player issue than a class issue. Paladins are in a good spot, but they are not doing double your healing unless you are being carried.


Not double. That was an exaggeration. I used exaggerations to point out the flaw in Rdruids, and that of Holy Pallies being able to either lead or put up competitive numbers while wearing PvP set bonus. Somethings wrong there. And it's not a me issue.

You find me another class that can go into raid and still put up identical numbers. With PvP gear.
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90 Troll Mage
15790
12/13/2012 08:44 AMPosted by Tonydanza
With PvP gear.


Why does this matter? Does pvp gear not have spirit on it?

12/13/2012 08:44 AMPosted by Tonydanza
Not double. That was an exaggeration. I used exaggerations to point out the flaw in Rdruids


An argument shouldn't need to be exaggerated if its a strong argument, it should be able to stand up on its own.

Edit: fixed a typo
Edited by Hiroran on 12/13/2012 9:41 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
An argument shouldn't need to be exaggerated if its a strong argument, it should be able to stand up on its own.


So true.

Also, PvP gear isn't that bad stat-wise. 483 gear is better itemized than MSV LFR gear in terms of intellect, spirit and secondaries, so, why shouldn't someone in PvP gear be competitive with you? Their set-bonuses are pretty weak compared to Tier (especially since the Hpally one was hotfix nerfed), but otherwise it's entirely acceptable to heal in PvP gear.
Edited by Qùess on 12/13/2012 9:41 AM PST
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90 Troll Mage
15790
I dont know the situation with healer pvp gear but they carry the same ammount of secondary stats that an equivalent pve piece will have. They may have poor itemization but thats it. Only weapons/tier/trinkets are bad for pve.
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Pvp power and resilience don't affect the item budget anymore. So wearing pvp gear is not a detriment.
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90 Tauren Druid
8710
That's not the issue...it's pallies stacking them specifically for the 2/4 set bonus. Look @ top wol's and see all pallies stacking them.
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90 Human Paladin
14905
12/13/2012 03:37 PMPosted by Tonydanza
That's not the issue...it's pallies stacking them specifically for the 2/4 set bonus. Look @ top wol's and see all pallies stacking them.


And that was hotfix nerfed a week or so back. So your problem with pallies is?
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90 Tauren Druid
8710
12/13/2012 04:15 PMPosted by Sarakatawen
That's not the issue...it's pallies stacking them specifically for the 2/4 set bonus. Look @ top wol's and see all pallies stacking them.


And that was hotfix nerfed a week or so back. So your problem with pallies is?


They're still rolling pvp sets this week. Tell me when that's changed. That's the problem, hush puppy.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
12/13/2012 05:16 PMPosted by Tonydanza


And that was hotfix nerfed a week or so back. So your problem with pallies is?


They're still rolling pvp sets this week. Tell me when that's changed. That's the problem, hush puppy.


Hard to replace an entire gear set in a week.
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love the tone of this thread... I really do...

I know the priest community got very vocal about our issues, but we didn't come storming into other classes's threads declaring their issues irrelevant, or demanding nerfs to other classes...

This is getting ridiculous.
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Answer: bears will eat your face.

Next question!
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90 Tauren Paladin
0
This was partially discussed in a different thread or two. But to answer all of it...

PvP 4-piece was broken powerful prior to the twin nerf/buff. PvP was nerfed (a necessary change), and PvE 4 piece was buffed slightly.

Even though PvE is (arguably slighty) stronger than the still useful PvP 4-set, in many progression raids, healers don't get tier pieces until after DPS and tanks. This means that any good Healadin that has time on their hands is going to acquire or continue using their PvP 4-piece until such time as they can accumulate a full 4-piece PvE set. Which as Tiriel says, will take more than a couple of weeks.

All of the WoL numbers were made with the broken PvP 4-piece, which is no longer in service.

Healadins are powerful, but not ungodly so. We're just good and solid. Druids *might* be weaker than average, but I can't comment on that aspect, not knowing enough about their current state (Though, I hear their mana is sad like an ice cream cone with a hole in the bottom).

It's also been said a couple of times, but to reiterate. PvP gear is just as good as the same level PvE equivalent since Power/Resilience don't count (except perhaps on the weapon?). And in some cases, the itemization is far better.

Also, I would prefer that bears did not eat my face. :(

Unless, you know, you're making a euphemism for face time. <3 Druids
Edited by Wards on 12/13/2012 5:45 PM PST
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90 Troll Druid
18095
Blizzard's done a good job with Holy Pallies so far this expansion, actually. I honestly feel like they've done a decent job at all of the healing specs, just some could use more work than others.
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90 Tauren Druid
8710
This was partially discussed in a different thread or two. But to answer all of it...

PvP 4-piece was broken powerful prior to the twin nerf/buff. PvP was nerfed (a necessary change), and PvE 4 piece was buffed slightly.

Even though PvE is (arguably slighty) stronger than the still useful PvP 4-set, in many progression raids, healers don't get tier pieces until after DPS and tanks. This means that any good Healadin that has time on their hands is going to acquire or continue using their PvP 4-piece until such time as they can accumulate a full 4-piece PvE set. Which as Tiriel says, will take more than a couple of weeks.

All of the WoL numbers were made with the broken PvP 4-piece, which is no longer in service.

Healadins are powerful, but not ungodly so. We're just good and solid. Druids *might* be weaker than average, but I can't comment on that aspect, not knowing enough about their current state (Though, I hear their mana is sad like an ice cream cone with a hole in the bottom).

It's also been said a couple of times, but to reiterate. PvP gear is just as good as the same level PvE equivalent since Power/Resilience don't count (except perhaps on the weapon?). And in some cases, the itemization is far better.

Also, I would prefer that bears did not eat my face. :(

Unless, you know, you're making a euphemism for face time. <3 Druids


Not trying to be a *#@@!#@% or a troll..but have Holy Pallies ever not been powerful?

But aside from that and back to my main issue at hand, it's the PvP set bonuses. What other class can use a pvp set, just for bonuses (easier to obtain by far) because said bonuses are superior to even higher Ilvl's?
As others have mentioned or questioned, I am not at all talking about the stats on gear...That's irrelevent. It's about an entire class grabbing something just because of the bonus. I would do that too...except my bonus grants me an ability I'll drop MAYBE once an encounter. And it's a tank cooldown ability...Fair? EF vs Iron bark? reallllly? lol
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ya'll also have to keep in perspective, this is just *one* tier... its not like the rest of the game/expac is going to be like this...
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90 Tauren Paladin
0
I didn't play a paladin until the end of Cata, so I can't really say. We were strong then (and used with great effect on heroic Ultraxion), and we're strong now (but not at the top). Wrath, BC, and Vanilla... other pallies will have to answer that. I do know that Healadin used to be boring, being a one-button wonder spec, but weak? Unsure.

The PvP gear set being optimal is rather unusual. This is, far as I know, the first time this has really occurred in such large numbers. I have no doubt, though, that had the PvP gear set been appropriately restricted with EF and the PvE properly buffed from the very beginning (as they are now), this would have flown below the radar. As it stands, though, a Healadin is still better off grabbing whichever set that they can get their hands on with the highest iLevel. 483 LFR is stronger than 458 Honor, as an example.

I know it's not much consolation, but come T15, things will reset again, since the problem is with the gear rather than the Paladin class rotation and abilities.
Edited by Wards on 12/13/2012 8:07 PM PST
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