no buffs for shadow 5.2

90 Goblin Priest
13835
Look guys, no need to get complicated here....

All we really need is...

1. A new spell that gives us shadow orbs outside of combat.

2. Immunity from all cc effects during the duration of our Dispersion.

3. The return of the Void Shift health swap with our Shadowfiend pet.

THATS IT!


Those are only buffs to PvP, this thread is focused more towards buffs for PvE, not PvP. S-Priests are insane at PvP, in less gear you can easily out-do almost any class. PvE on the other hand we're doing the second lowest of all specs in the game according to average DPS meters in full heroic gear, losing only to Assassination Rogues, who demolish our DPS in sub.
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100 Undead Priest
14000
You really shouldn't advert for buffs at all when it comes to PvE.

Blizzard aleady has a plan ready.

When it comes to PvE, the only thing that gets through is bug fixes.
Edited by Dreamskull on 12/22/2012 10:23 PM PST
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90 Goblin Priest
13835
What do you mean they have a plan? With 5.2 there is not a single buff coming for S-Priests, whereas Enhance Shamans who are doing approximately 10k more DPS than S-Priests in full heroic gear currently are getting huge buffs. That doesn't sound like a plan to me. On a single target patchwerk fight along with high movement fights, S-Priests have the lowest DPS out of all classes and the 2nd lowest spec in the game, next to Assassination Rogues.

PvE has a lot more competitive players than PvP, but is less extreme than PvP. PvP requires balance, whereas PvE only requires moderate stability. PvP will always get priority, but the thing Blizzard should understand is that they cannot just ignore a large margin or their players. It is definitely possible to keep a balance between PvP and PvE for all classes.

Also, this wasn't my thread so I don't understand what you mean by I shouldn't advert I was simply stating my point on someone elses thread, who is saying PvE S-Priests need a buff.

My question is, why are you on a thread which is clearly referring to buffing PvE arguing about getting unnecessary buffs for PvP?
Edited by Sinnoh on 12/22/2012 11:28 PM PST
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18 Pandaren Mage
8005
I haven't finished reading through the entire thread so forgive me if this has already been said but not before I interject that spriests are no longer a casting class. We are a dot class. Personally, if I wanted to play a dot class I would have rolled a Warlock. We are a very dysfunctional dot class who can't complete with the Warlock on any level. If we are going to function as a dot class then VT should be an instant cast and MB needs a buff. As it stands currently our rotation or lack there of is losing us dps at every turn because we have two major problems. We are having to clip MF to keep up with procs and dot timers and we have an absurdly long cast time with VT. If we play the spriest as Blizzard now wants us to play, we are also losing dps by tabbing for multiple target SW:P. It's not a high enough dps dot to waste so much time tabbing for targets.

Shadow Priests are definitely NOT in a good place for PVE raiding. While they may be melting faces in PVP, on average for PVE our single target dps is 40k dps below all other classes of it's same gear range and frequently below all other classes of lower gear range.

Our gear drops are inadequate to say the very least. The only substantial boost we have towards reaching our ridiculously high haste cap comes from the Elegon trinket and everything else has either no haste or very low haste. The majority of our gear is loaded with secondary stats but not enough to reforge into haste so we are sacrificing intellect gem slots to make up for the difference. I know of no other class that has to strive so high and hard to reach a secondary stat.

After doing the math for all practical purposes and not simulation, intellect is not an spriests primary stat anymore. Haste has become our #1 priority. If you look at the T14 geared priests you will see just how low their intellect is. It's downwards of 14 to 18k.

The other thing I have learned is even though we are told to stack crit if we can't reach haste cap, crit actually lowers our dps over reforging it to haste. Even when we do reach haste cap there is no significant increase in dps. The increase only comes with t14 gear sets that gives bonuses. If you were smart enough to choose jewel crafting or enchanting as your profession, your may be topping other spriests but you are still not topping other classes despite the T14 bonuses.
Edited by Fliedwice on 12/23/2012 12:21 AM PST
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18 Pandaren Mage
8005
If you look at raidbots, Shadow is in a fairly poor spot in PvE.

Using the following Control options for both 25H and 10H for all fights in MSV and HoF:
Data Set: All Parses
Timespan: 1 Month (nearly enough to include almost only data from 5.1)
Sample Period: 2 weeks
Measure: 90th Percentile

Shadow Ranks the following:
25H:
Stone Guards: 14
Feng: 20
Gara'jal: 21
Spirit Kings: 5
Elegon: 4
Will: 13
Vizier: 20
Blade Lord: 23
Garalon: 16
Wind Lord: 20
Amber-Shaper: 13
Empress: 6

10H:
Stone Guards: 10
Feng: 20
Gara'jal: 20
Spirit Kings: 8
Elegon: 4
Will: 10
Vizier: 19
Blade Lord: 21
Garalon: 19
Wind Lord: 19
Amber-Shaper: 16
Empress: 15

That's a total of 7 fights (24 total) in which Shadow ranks in the top half of DPS specs (23 total), also in the top 10. Only 3 of these fights have Shadow in the top 5, with no fight having Shadow in the top 3.
(To make things easier I've put this in a similar format to what I've done below)
Shadow:
25H:
Top 3: 0
Top 5: 2
Top 10: 3
10H:
Top 3: 0
Top 5: 1
Top 10: 4

If we compare this to Warlock specs we see the following:
Affliction:
25H:
Top 3: 7
Top 5: 9
Top 10: 11
10H:
Top 3: 8
Top 5: 9
Top 10: 11
Affliction has 2 fights in which it ranks outside of the top half of fights at 14 on 25H Garalon and 15 on 10H Garalon.

Demo:
25H:
Top 3: 2
Top 5: 4
Top 10: 8
10H:
Top 3: 1
Top 5: 4
Top 10: 5

Destro:
25H:
Top 3: 4
Top 5: 4
Top 10: 7
10H:
Top 3: 4
Top 5: 5
Top 10: 9

If we compare this to Mage specs we see the following:
Arcane :
25H:
Top 3: 6
Top 5: 7
Top 10: 10
10H:
Top 3: 4
Top 5: 6
Top 10: 9

Fire:
25H:
Top 3: 3
Top 5: 3
Top 10: 5
10H:
Top 3: 1
Top 5: 3
Top 10: 4

Frost:
25H:
Top 3: 0
Top 5: 1
Top 10: 1
10H:
Top 3: 1
Top 5: 1
Top 10: 3

If we compare this to the other Hybrid Casters we see the following:
Balance:
25H:
Top 3: 0
Top 5: 3
Top 10: 3
10H:
Top 3: 1
Top 5: 2
Top 10: 3

Elemental:
25H:
Top 3: 0
Top 5: 1
Top 10: 1
10H:
Top 3: 0
Top 5: 0
Top 10: 2

That roughly puts Shadow's bests equal with Balance Druids and better than Frost and Elemental Shamans. However, that puts Shadow significantly behind Affliction, Demo, Destro, and Arcane and slightly behind Fire.

How is Shadow in the best spot it has ever been in?


Spriest isn't even a recommended spec for these fights. I think it's recommended for 1 MV boss at which point optimal raid composition all but omits us.
Edited by Fliedwice on 12/23/2012 12:13 AM PST
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90 Troll Priest
10360
I haven't finished reading through the entire thread so forgive me if this has already been said but not before I interject that spriests are no longer a casting class. We are a dot class. Personally, if I wanted to play a dot class I would have rolled a Warlock. We are a very dysfunctional dot class who can't complete with the Warlock on any level. If we are going to function as a dot class then VT should be an instant cast and MB needs a buff. As it stands currently our rotation or lack there of is losing us dps at every turn because we have two major problems. We are having to clip MF to keep up with procs and dot timers and we have an absurdly long cast time with VT. If we play the spriest as Blizzard now wants us to play, we are also losing dps by tabbing for multiple target SW:P. It's not a high enough dps dot to waste so much time tabbing for targets.

Shadow Priests are definitely NOT in a good place for PVE raiding. While they may be melting faces in PVP, on average for PVE our single target dps is 40k dps below all other classes of it's same gear range and frequently below all other classes of lower gear range.

Our gear drops are inadequate to say the very least. The only substantial boost we have towards reaching our ridiculously high haste cap comes from the Elegon trinket and everything else has either no haste or very low haste. The majority of our gear is loaded with secondary stats but not enough to reforge into haste so we are sacrificing intellect gem slots to make up for the difference. I know of no other class that has to strive so high and hard to reach a secondary stat.

After doing the math for all practical purposes and not simulation, intellect is not an spriests primary stat anymore. Haste has become our #1 priority. If you look at the T14 geared priests you will see just how low their intellect is. It's downwards of 14 to 18k.

The other thing I have learned is even though we are told to stack crit if we can't reach haste cap, crit actually lowers our dps over reforging it to haste. Even when we do reach haste cap there is no significant increase in dps. The increase only comes with t14 gear sets that gives bonuses. If you were smart enough to choose jewel crafting or enchanting as your profession, your may be topping other spriests but you are still not topping other classes despite the T14 bonuses.


So much wrong in this post I don't know where to start.

First, you don't have to tab target Pain. Make a mouseover macro. All I do is put my cursor over a nameplate and hit the hotkey with that macro. It applies pain (and touch the same way) without switching targets. If you have tidyplates or something similiar you can see the dots ticking on your dot targets. Very easy way to multidot.

Second: unless you are in that very (very very) narrow window where sacrificing int for haste is worthwhile, Int is always your best stat. Sim your character lol. Int is worth much more to me than haste. It's not even comparable.

Third: there is plenty of gear that is itemized great for us. If you get some unlucky drops, well, it happens, but this tier is loaded with plenty of haste pieces.

Last, if I was 40K+ behind anybody in a raid in the same gear I would delete my toon. That is not a shadowpriest needs a buff problem, that is learning how to play your toon issue.

We are not perfect, and could use some things. But we are not broken. Show me a log where you played well and were 40K dps behind every other class. That is just ridiculous.

And our set bonuses suck. That's one of the reasons there is a disparity. Compare our set bonuses to the lock tier. They get a huge increase in damage versus us. But that happens.
Edited by Syn on 12/23/2012 1:25 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12855
Just out of curiousity - are those SPriests only DPSing? I mean, there's Vampiric Embrace, Symbiosis Tranqs, Throwing out a Mending, etc.... that's kinda the whole utility thing. I'm just curious if I'm the only Shadow that throws out a little healing and a well timed Void Swap. Or even a Dispersion on something like Unseen Strike.
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1 Gnome Warrior
0
Clearly the people who say, "Oh Shadow Priests just need to L2P" are NOT high-end raiding (heroic raiding, basically). They are competing with people who are not on par with their skill set but when it comes to being in a heroic raiding group of 25, and everyone is mostly skill balanced, it comes to show the classes are not.

Shadow Priests were in competition with Mages and Warlocks back in the end of Wrath, and it was great but the people behind balancing classes at Blizzard are, from what I assume, overlooking PvE Shadow Priests and focusing solely on PvE healing Priests. I can't recall any REAL buff we got since this expansion whilst other classes are constantly getting fixed.

People are always saying how just because we CAN heal, we shouldn't be competitive DPS with pure-DPS classes. But no, sometimes we just don't need heal just like some Ret Paladins don't go Holy, ever. And people love to bring up PvP aspects when we're discussing ways to boost our PvE damage.

Shadow Priests are the least QQ I've seen, and they're always asking for help on DPS because they think they're wrong, but no, it's our spec that is wrong right now. Would I ever use Psyfiend, or Void Shift with my pet, or CC break Disperse during raiding? I HIGHLY doubt it.

And, our set bonus is baloney.
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90 Undead Priest
19175
12/23/2012 05:24 AMPosted by Pavlova
I can't recall any REAL buff we got since this expansion whilst other classes are constantly getting fixed.


Then your memory is bad.
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100 Human Priest
13885
how many classes bring massive raid heals with halo and a mana hymn for all healers and as much healing as a glyphed vamp embrace if you are getting beaten by a long shot as shad u are doing something wrong like i said before shadow does more than competitive dps/damage along with Strong raid cds not to mention a mass dispel Gyphed for shadow will make your healers life alot easier

honestly i don't think ive seen anyone complain about shadow being bad in raid situations u must be doing something wrong shadow is definitely a strong asset to any raid comp
Last I checked shadow was a dps spec, not a healing spec. Sure the healers may like our utility, but the raid wants to see output. I'm not impressed with shadow damage in 25-man raiding. I'm not as geared as others in my guild, but I'm working hard to get above the #10 spot. Similarly geared melee and casters are doing a lot more dps. I know it's partly my skill level, but I'm workign on that. We could use some buffs. I consider Mind Sear very underwhelming, and Mind Flay is not a good filler spell for much of anything. Mind spike is pretty yawn worthy, too.
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100 Undead Priest
10715
12/23/2012 05:23 AMPosted by Feythylan
Just out of curiousity - are those SPriests only DPSing? I mean, there's Vampiric Embrace, Symbiosis Tranqs, Throwing out a Mending, etc.... that's kinda the whole utility thing. I'm just curious if I'm the only Shadow that throws out a little healing and a well timed Void Swap. Or even a Dispersion on something like Unseen Strike.


You have completed Blade Lord once on your character and that is the furthest progression you have ever seen, and so for that I will forgive you this one time. For those of us who do Heroics, Unseen Strike hits for over 11 million and if you try to be a hero and solo tank it with Dispersion you will die a horrible death. In a competitive raiding guild, you will also likely be removed from the raid for being an idiot.

Before commenting further, I would suggest you learn to understand other people's points of view and perhaps get an understanding of other classes. Other classes bring utility too, and that is no excuse for our DPS being out of line. For example you mention Vampiric Embrace, yet Shaman (both Ele and Enhance) have an exact functioning replica of this ability only theirs is better; why is it better? They do more DPS than we do so their healing output through Conductivity is stronger.

Please, just refrain from posting.
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90 Human Priest
10200
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xl96a2hlql4qw9qu/sum/damageDone/?s=2707&e=3205

Or just don't buff Shadow at all since we're borderline OP already. Maybe some of you guys should try checking out the forum stickies sometime if you're having so much trouble...
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90 Undead Priest
19175
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xl96a2hlql4qw9qu/sum/damageDone/?s=2707&e=3205

Or just don't buff Shadow at all since we're borderline OP already. Maybe some of you guys should try checking out the forum stickies sometime if you're having so much trouble...


Not seeing borderline OP.
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90 Draenei Priest
6975
I'm surprised you, of all people, took that bait.
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90 Undead Priest
19175
I guess.
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90 Dwarf Priest
11105
If they up dmg on this hybrid class they will qq so much in arena/BG's that we will get nailed with the nerf hammer from hell. Our utility is already great.
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90 Troll Priest
Rex
14195
rofl 140k reg elegon. way to lighten the mood with your jokes.

however, looking at your ballerlog, it does make me jealous of how shadow apparitions actually work on regular elegon. annoying how the only synergy we get from our tier set gets completely wasted on some fights b/c of apparition pathing bugs.

If they up dmg on this hybrid class they will qq so much in arena/BG's that we will get nailed with the nerf hammer from hell. Our utility is already great.


you can just do it in the form of spells who are 'less effective against pvp targets'. i really give no !@#$s about pvp, but the gap between shadow and affliction could very well kill the spec as raid viable in the same way moonkin got mostly benched in t13.
Edited by Snaxattax on 12/23/2012 11:57 AM PST
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90 Gnome Priest
10640
12/21/2012 08:10 PMPosted by Captinawesum


how many classes bring massive raid heals with halo and a mana hymn for all healers and as much healing as a glyphed vamp embrace if you are getting beaten by a long shot as shad u are doing something wrong like i said before shadow does more than competitive dps/damage along with Strong raid cds not to mention a mass dispel Gyphed for shadow will make your healers life alot easier

honestly i don't think ive seen anyone complain about shadow being bad in raid situations u must be doing something wrong shadow is definitely a strong asset to any raid comp


step into the big boy raids and we'll talk

says the big boi 73 mage...........
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90 Draenei Priest
6975
I like how this became a progression fight instead of focusing on issues with the spec.

Good job, guys.
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18 Pandaren Mage
8005
I haven't finished reading through the entire thread so forgive me if this has already been said but not before I interject that spriests are no longer a casting class. We are a dot class. Personally, if I wanted to play a dot class I would have rolled a Warlock. We are a very dysfunctional dot class who can't complete with the Warlock on any level. If we are going to function as a dot class then VT should be an instant cast and MB needs a buff. As it stands currently our rotation or lack there of is losing us dps at every turn because we have two major problems. We are having to clip MF to keep up with procs and dot timers and we have an absurdly long cast time with VT. If we play the spriest as Blizzard now wants us to play, we are also losing dps by tabbing for multiple target SW:P. It's not a high enough dps dot to waste so much time tabbing for targets.

Shadow Priests are definitely NOT in a good place for PVE raiding. While they may be melting faces in PVP, on average for PVE our single target dps is 40k dps below all other classes of it's same gear range and frequently below all other classes of lower gear range.

Our gear drops are inadequate to say the very least. The only substantial boost we have towards reaching our ridiculously high haste cap comes from the Elegon trinket and everything else has either no haste or very low haste. The majority of our gear is loaded with secondary stats but not enough to reforge into haste so we are sacrificing intellect gem slots to make up for the difference. I know of no other class that has to strive so high and hard to reach a secondary stat.

After doing the math for all practical purposes and not simulation, intellect is not an spriests primary stat anymore. Haste has become our #1 priority. If you look at the T14 geared priests you will see just how low their intellect is. It's downwards of 14 to 18k.

The other thing I have learned is even though we are told to stack crit if we can't reach haste cap, crit actually lowers our dps over reforging it to haste. Even when we do reach haste cap there is no significant increase in dps. The increase only comes with t14 gear sets that gives bonuses. If you were smart enough to choose jewel crafting or enchanting as your profession, your may be topping other spriests but you are still not topping other classes despite the T14 bonuses.


So much wrong in this post I don't know where to start.

First, you don't have to tab target Pain. Make a mouseover macro. All I do is put my cursor over a nameplate and hit the hotkey with that macro. It applies pain (and touch the same way) without switching targets. If you have tidyplates or something similiar you can see the dots ticking on your dot targets. Very easy way to multidot.

Second: unless you are in that very (very very) narrow window where sacrificing int for haste is worthwhile, Int is always your best stat. Sim your character lol. Int is worth much more to me than haste. It's not even comparable.

Third: there is plenty of gear that is itemized great for us. If you get some unlucky drops, well, it happens, but this tier is loaded with plenty of haste pieces.

Last, if I was 40K+ behind anybody in a raid in the same gear I would delete my toon. That is not a shadowpriest needs a buff problem, that is learning how to play your toon issue.

We are not perfect, and could use some things. But we are not broken. Show me a log where you played well and were 40K dps behind every other class. That is just ridiculous.

And our set bonuses suck. That's one of the reasons there is a disparity. Compare our set bonuses to the lock tier. They get a huge increase in damage versus us. But that happens.


There is so much wrong with THIS post and I'll start right here. #1 There is no difference between tabbing, hovering or pointing and clicking. We lose dps every time we stop dpsing to dot with an underpowered spell. You're a fool if you think your macro changes the dynamic.

#2 Taking the sim route will leave you playing Naxx for the rest of your MOP gaming experience. Rather than using outdated tools perhaps you should do some real calculations based on your current toons' stats. If you did you would see haste is a sPriests #1 stat and it far outweighs intel and crit. Don't come at me with a cookie cutter response until you show me you have done this.

#3 If you think the sPriest current state of gear drops is balanced I refer you back to point #2. Learn how to do some math and stop depending on tools created for WoLK.

#4 When you start telling people to delete their toon because you feel self empowerment by being a mediocre player who settles for the best of the worst it says nothing more than your attitude sucks and you have no clue how to play your priest.
Edited by Fliedwice on 12/23/2012 1:20 PM PST
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