Underpowered ret

90 Human Paladin
8200
So we all know ret is terrible and clunky. Nobody wants ret in an RBG team and our only hope in the arena is to ride on the back of a hunter or warrior.

The last patch really hit ret below the belt with 15% more reduced healing. My WoG on myself is only for 5% life while under a Mortal Strike type effect. I've mastered the play style and its all about utility/support and sustain. I have to be able to rely on healing and dispelling slows to sustain my team untill a killpoint where we can land a kill with cooldowns. With the current large reduction to healing its put a knife in this class's mechanics. I cant sustain with my cooldowns being dispelled and healing for so little. Ret was already an underdog but the increased 15% healing reduction has really put a chokehold on what we can/cant do.

Usually i dont like to entertain the idea of theoretical buffs but this spec is desperate. These are simple buffs i think would steer ret back into contention.

Ret only glyph of Flash Heal. Boost the % healing from WoG and flash heal. - This talent is what makes ret the assist/utility class its a fun play style its just not viable in rated games. It needs to be boosted.

Ret only Glyph of Hand of Freedom. Hand of freedom can no longer be dispelled. - Freedom is easily dispelled. This wouldnt be so bad if we had more survivability, but we dont and something like this would make other players actually want a ret in their RBG team.

Talent Burden of Guilt shouldnt be a talent should just be ret passive, this talent is very very pale in comparison to the other talents in its tier. This is a cookie cutter dodge talent just doesnt even need to exist. forcing players into picking the obvious again which MoP talents was not suppose to be cookie cutter. Blizz has made some gains in this area like pre-game talent/glyph flexibility but talents like this are horrible. Poor rogues are full of them. There are a million slows in the game this 1 just needs to be passive like everyone elses. We need the same amount of uptime a warrior/feral/dk or any other melee would.

Inquisition is the worste. This spell needs to be just a buff or passive or something. There is a glyph that increases its duration and lowers damage by 15%. That just isnt very useful. How did glyphs like gag order even exist and then other classes get glyphs like this 1? Odd. This makes the spec really clunky, in vital situations you can run minutes without being able to rebuff when you're having to WoG yourself so often when playing with no defenses but a 5 minute bubble. This has been happening to me alot lately, during the killpoint or when im trying to recover i lose inguisition for too long. Even 10 seconds without it is too long.

Id like to add in that ret isnt the only class suffering. Disc priests have it alot worse than us and the extra -15% really just obliterated that spec. Rogues are getting buffed in 5.2 along with monks and they really needed it i hope it brings them up to contention. Disc priest buffs doesnt look like its going to be enough neither does the DKs.

If ret does get buffs and its just damage and we continue to be a faceroll spec i will =( on the forums again. Q . Q
Edited by Kîngs on 12/29/2012 3:50 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
6990
12/29/2012 03:47 AMPosted by Kîngs
Ret only glyph of Flash Heal. Boost the % healing from WoG and flash heal. - This talent is what makes ret the assist/utility class its a fun play style its just not viable in rated games. It needs to be boosted.


This glyph would be mandatory, and I don't think Blizzard likes having glyphs or talents that you HAVE to choose.

12/29/2012 03:47 AMPosted by Kîngs
Ret only Glyph of Hand of Freedom. Hand of freedom can no longer be dispelled. - Freedom is easily dispelled. This wouldnt be so bad if we had more survivability, but we dont and something like this would make other players actually want a ret in their RBG team.


This would also be mandatory for ret pvp, big no-no.

12/29/2012 03:47 AMPosted by Kîngs
Talent Burden of Guilt shouldnt be a talent should just be ret passive, this talent is very very pale in comparison to the other talents in its tier.


I'm thinking it would be a little too OP if we had Burden of Guilt and a 30 second stun. Maybe just make Seal of Justice proc off of more abilities? Maybe then we wouldn't just sit in Seal of Truth all game and would have to switch between the two depending on the situation.

Inquisition is the worst.


I actually don't have a problem with Inquisition, although I could see if you are being trained by the other team it could be a pain to keep 100% uptime.

I think we should wait until the PTR for 5.2 is out and then give it a go and see how we are in terms of balance before we ask for nerfs or buffs. With the top tier specs getting nerfs in 5.2 we should end up more balanced than we are currently. So just hang in there for another month or so.

Also remember, Ghostcrawler has said he likes where Ret, Enhance, and DK are right now, which means he'll try to bring all the other classes to our level (hopefully) instead of bringing us to their level.
Edited by Dantekong on 12/29/2012 4:39 AM PST
Reply Quote
A+ to everything Dantekong said
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
8200
Ya im not a develepor and i dont like theoreticals either. But ret isnt fine at the moment. It just really is not.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Paladin
13945
We really could use some more glyph choices, even if it isn't those. The inquis and the truth ones are really bad in particular as they provide nothing but damage loss. Those need to be completely revamped or removed. They really feel more like a beginners trap than anything else.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
8200
I think we just need a self healing buff.

I shouldnt be getting 19k wogs with a war on me. Their white dmg is higher than that.


Thats exactly it. My self healing account for maybe the next incoming attack.. making it so that my WoG never moves my lifebar.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
8200
Also still have never fixed the issue where when a target is LoS of me or out of range i cannot WoG myself. I have to drop target with escape or use a self-cast modifier. Managing holy power, inguisition and trying to WoG myself via dropping target or using self-cast modifier is alot to deal with.

Even when i get behind a pillar to WoG myself i have to drop target to do so and then its a little bitty heal.

I noticed vanguards has been using glyph of flash heal to try and help make up for our little small heals.
Reply Quote
12/29/2012 03:47 AMPosted by Kîngs
So we all know ret is terrible and clunky. Nobody wants ret in an RBG team and our only hope in the arena is to ride on the back of a hunter or warrior.


http://www.arenajunkies.com/rankings/battleground/?sort=&region_id=All&battlegroup_id=-1&realm_id=-1&faction_id=-1&class_id2=2

2k player say watttt
Reply Quote
88 Human Death Knight
3995
I have a fully leveled RET Pally and I gotta say that inquistion is the biggest let down of the Spec. Its alot to manage and forces you to choose to either keep it up or do ANYTHING else. I dont claim to be some elite player or anything but I find it to be more of a hinderance then anything, however if you dont keep it up you hit like a pansy. I think insted of making it cost Holy Power they should make it more like how the DK Horn of Winter USED to be. Give INQ a set mana cost and give it semi-short duration (1-1.5 min) that way you still have to manage it but not to the point of choosing to basically sit out for a GCD every few mins. You could even glyph it to in crease the duration for another minute.
Edited by Murdrface on 12/31/2012 7:58 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Paladin
13945
12/31/2012 07:57 PMPosted by Murdrface
I have a fully leveled RET Pally and I gotta say that inquistion is the biggest let down of the Spec. Its alot to manage and forces you to choose to either keep it up or do ANYTHING else. I dont claim to be some elite player or anything but I find it to be more of a hinderance then anything, however if you dont keep it up you hit like a pansy. I think insted of making it cost Holy Power they should make it more like how the DK Horn of Winter USED to be. Give INQ a set mana cost and give it semi-short duration (1-1.5 min) that way you still have to manage it but not to the point of choosing to basically sit out for a GCD every few mins. You could even glyph it to in crease the duration for another minute.


The holy power activation wouldn't be as bad if refreshing it with 1 - 2 hp would add to the current duration (capped at 30 secs) rather than cutting it down to the duration for those particular HP amounts. I realize they said in the next patch they will make it so 1 - 2 HP casts will no longer override a full 3 stack, but I don't think that means a 1 - 2 cast is going to add to it, but rather just give that error "a more powerful spell is already active". I could be wrong since it's too early to tell for sure, but its easy to assume that based on how they worded the note.
Reply Quote
40 Blood Elf Paladin
620
So... is ret underpowered in PvE? I really like this spec, but I just got into it.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
12800
Inquisition needs to be refresh by judgement &/or cs. Another idea is have the ability increase dmg by 15% instead of 30% but ret have a passive that comes a long with learning the ability that gives a 15% dmg increase that way it will be 30% when activate that way it won't hurt pve.

Pally's tier 3 talent really needs to be undispellable, even with the new change to Eternal Flames it will be useless when the heals gets remove. Currently its just stupid how it takes 3 stacks to get the instant flash heal from Selfless Healer but the buff can be dispell.
Edited by Toushin on 1/1/2013 11:58 PM PST
Reply Quote
100 Draenei Paladin
18820
01/01/2013 11:46 AMPosted by Faerunian
So... is ret underpowered in PvE? I really like this spec, but I just got into it.


No it's not, enjoy.
Reply Quote
88 Human Death Knight
3995
Inquisition needs to be refresh by judgement &/or cs.


That would be great but I would rather you say it be refreshed by TV, WOG, or DS. The reson I say this comes back to why I dont like the current mechanic in the 1st place. Say your out soloing doing the plethoria of dalies at our disposal and you come across a tough Rare. With my current rotation (and build) coming in cold (no holy power) goes like this. Judge,Excor,CS (now with 3 holy power), Inq (to bing up buff), then I have to at least go through 2 more GDC's (one after Inq, and one after the next action to get back to 3 HP) to hit with one of the "finishers" (TV,DS, or WOG). Thats a total of 5 GCD's before you can get any REAL damage down. Now it could be even more if you pop "wings" somewhere in there. You could get lucky and get a few Divine Purpose procs and lay some serious damage down after the fact, or pop Holy Avenger if thats what your speced into, but even then you talking at LEAST 3 GCD's to lay down the hurt. While thats not to much of a problem in PVE, that ramp up time is frankly unacceptable in PVP when your probably going to quickly be on some sort of defense.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
6825
Honestly the class is damn well balanced and I think runs pretty well. The only thing i would adjust is 30 seconds or so on blinding light. Our damage is fine even outside of cools(i'm sitting in the 1700-1800 land right now in RBGs and rgularly come in top 3 for total damage), you just need the gear to go with it

I regularly crit flashes on partners in arena for 150k and follow that up with a 100k WoG. This is when everything is popped and i'm sitting at 51k AP, but still thats ALOT of burst healing available for a team. In RBGs without everything popped i still manage 110k heals without everything popped. We provide better group healing than enhance shamans(which is the closest thing we can be compared to), and more utility than any other melee in the game. The only melee classes i have a problem with 1v1 outside of my cool downs are Warriors and DKs, both due to their insane amount of sustain(which is being brought in line, at least in the case of warriors). After 5.2 warriors won't be an issue anymore in a 1v1 arena scenario at all and i have a feeling rogues will become the new bane to all melee existence.

But you have to admit, 1v1 with all our cools, nobody stands a chance. Inside our cooldown window nobody is stronger 1v1 than a ret pally, and that is no small thing to say.

and for managing inquisition get CLCRet and that will provide you with more than enough info to managing it's uptime.

anyways sorry if this seems disjointed, exhausted. Have a good night.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
8200
yay 5.2 for the win. Still nobody wants to take a ret pally in RBGs. Idk if blizz can do anything about that. We are still squeezed out of RBGs. I've been told to quit complaining and play holy.. but why? At least 2 specs of every class should be viable in RBGs, and ret IS viable its just the player base still isnt accepting ret. Look what all ret has to offer in an RBG with 5.2 we are FINE.

BTW quit linking me 2k+ ret paladin wintraders its not impressive. If you run RBGs you know nobody takes ret paladins.. linking a wintraders armory doesnt prove anything. Yes some legit players are getting over 2k in RBGs deservingly so but its not mainstream. I cant find groups like my counterparts DK/War can. Link me a 2400+ ret paladin RBG stream and i'll accept you are right and i am wrong.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Paladin
11670
12/29/2012 03:47 AMPosted by Lexide
Ret only

Stopped reading there
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]