LFR loot system is deeply flawed.

90 Orc Warrior
13605
02/18/2013 07:25 AMPosted by Bitarsson
Too funny, LOL. Suddenly LFR is a raid?


Thats what the "R" stands for. One reason for the creation of LFR is to let people see the content who otherwise wouldnt. Thats what you got to do.

02/18/2013 07:23 AMPosted by Bitarsson
So lets see, I've did dailies religiously to grind VP, I've ran LFR till I'm sick of it, killed world bosses, in fact, did every grindy thing possible to hold up my end.


MOP has been out 18 or so weeks, thats 18k valor. Why didnt you use that valor to buy the gear from rep vendors to replace your blues? You havent upgraded any items, where are you spending the valor?

02/18/2013 07:23 AMPosted by Bitarsson
I've did my part, the problem is Blizz isn't doing their part and rewarding consistently vs. "oh well, it's all up to RNG".


Its been "up to RNG" since vanilla. Get used to it.
90 Human Death Knight
16430
02/18/2013 07:23 AMPosted by Bitarsson
this post is exactly whats wrong with the current player base they expect everything to be handed out instead of working to get it.This is what blizz gets for caveing to the go go kids.


Really? Check out my toon, and tell me exactly where I expect "everything to be handed out instead of working to get it"? Lets see, I've did far more LFRs than you, for far less result. I've obviously did a crap ton more dailies for VP and rep rewards...you're exalted with only 3 MoP factions. You haven't even maxed your profs, not even close. I've maxed BS, mining, fishing, archeo, 1st Aid, and cooking.

So lets see, I've did dailies religiously to grind VP, I've ran LFR till I'm sick of it, killed world bosses, in fact, did every grindy thing possible to hold up my end. So it's looking to me like you're the one who got "everything handed to them". Eh? I've did my part, the problem is Blizz isn't doing their part and rewarding consistently vs. "oh well, it's all up to RNG".


You look pretty well geared for the time you have spent in the raids. I have seen better, and I have seen worse. I have a few more runs of each raid than you, and I WOULD still have blues if I had not used my valor wisely. Your helm / shoulder / wep problem can be fixed by sha + whoever drops shoulders, I forget.

Actually, the terrace raid can probably fully gear you from this point. 1 raid a week isnt bad at all.
90 Dwarf Warrior
11385
02/18/2013 07:15 AMPosted by Treiz
LFR try hards QQ'ing about not having l33tz gearzz needs to stop happening, and Blizzard giving in to their whining will only make them whine harder imo. Not getting the gear you want from your 1 hour/week LFR schedule? Try actual end game raiding then.


Too funny again. You see anyone complaining about "not having l33tz gearzz" in this thread? Or anyone who activity/achieve feed reflects a "1 hour/week LFR schedule"?

"Try actual end game raiding then"

Love to. You taking sub-485 iLv gear dependent warriors who don't know the fights into your raid group? Yes?

Alternatively, you could read the thread before flapping your lips, eh?
90 Undead Warlock
SKP
17125

Note the armory...I've killed over 300 LFR bosses, used 3 coins per week. Started playing this toon second MoP went live, let it sit when I couldn't get any gear, then went back to it. My iLv is 481, with a grand total of 5 LFR drops. Still have 3 heroic blues, and people laugh when I try to get this toon into an actual raid. So all I have to show for all this grinding VP, weekly Sha, multiple Galleon kills, (crafted axe, chest, trink) and pain we call MoP is...the minimum iLv to get into the 5.2 starter LFR. Barely. And Golly Gee Whiz, I get to do it...ALL...OVER...AGAIN.

Works out to be a sub-1% (roughly 0.75%?) overall drop rate including coins, Sha, and Galleon kills. 15%? There's a laugh. So quite obviously the "gears people up in end-game content" isn't "working extremely well" for quite a few of us out here...and have to tell you, really don't think I can face too many more LFR runs and bags of gold.


Now you do realize, that you can build an ENTIRE set of 489 gear without LFR right? besides weapons, you are able to get valor gear which, is better than LFR gear AND gives titles/mounts/rep/achs while also giving you tokens to go toward roll coins.
84 Dwarf Paladin
0
The LFR loot system works extremely well for what it's intended to do, it sees a ton of traffic, and gears people up in end-game content that just wasn't possible even a year ago. By all accounts it offers people not able to commit the time, or have the resources, to raid. That in and of itself is a major accomplishment, and the intent of the LFR system. Regardless of your personal circumstances, you can get in there, see the story, experience most of the content, and get some decent items. But I think the rub is the expectations it sets. It looks like a raid, and it smells like a raid, but there's fundamental differences in how it's perceived due to the format. For traditional raiding you get together with your guildies and friends, you struggle on bosses, wipe after wipe, and finally through teamwork and perseverance you overcome the obstacle, loot drops, and even if you don't win a roll you feel like you've made a meaningful contribution to your team and your chances at success later through the overall gearing up of your raid group. In LFR the entire dynamic has to change because you're being matched up semi-randomly with other players. Because of that there is no feeling of helping your team get better, you enter the queue alone, and it's mainly about personal goals to gear up, which then maybe help you in coordinated raids later. You're in there for loot for yourself, and because of that there's less tolerance for overcoming obstacles, so encounters are much easier, and the loot system is per-person and not a communal distribution.

As others have noted the chance to get items in LFR versus a traditional raid scenario are actually higher, but that doesn't change the expectations of people jumping into LFR that this should be a system that provides more consistency. Whatever the underlying reason is for that, I'm not totally sure it matters beyond there is an expectation difference between traditional raiding and LFR. It's something we're keeping an eye on for potential tweaks in the future. We have tech for quests that increases your chance for a quest item to drop if you haven't gotten one recently, and so that's something we're at least beginning to think about and how that kind of consistency system could translate into things like the LFR. If nothing else tweaking drop rates on prior tiers when a new tier hits is pretty low hanging fruit on at least ensuring people can more easily get those last few ilvls so they can queue for the new tier.


Take this to your leaders. Stop giving out free loot for just showing up!
90 Draenei Mage
12160
Current loot system sucks, 28g? Fail-bag.
90 Undead Warlock
SKP
17125
Here's a point I've made to many in raiding since vanilla, and it works really well in real life also-

Expect nothing, then you'll never be disappointed.

It works! Gear will not get you into raids, YOU will. If a person is asking for 480 ilvl in a 463ilvl raid, then you really have to wonder how good the group/leader really is...

Now, when I take a look at your toon, I can see you went fairly hardcore at the start, but seem to have not done nearly as many dailies as you claim or pretend to have done. Look at this character and tell me I'm full of it. Now take a good look at my gear and then how many normal boss kills I have. You can't claim to be hardcore at dailies/VP grinding and then complain about droprates in LFR when you don't even have a full valor set on.

Grats on the weapon btw, I'm yet to get it on my DK, and you have hrm... How many Sha of Fear kills? Comon, stop being lazy and hoping to stomp your feet and get gear, you have had a lot of time to work at it and have not really put in all the effort you claim to have made on your character. I have 8x90s and most of them almost outgear you, some I barely even play.
90 Worgen Priest
2780
LFR try hards QQ'ing about not having l33tz gearzz needs to stop happening, and Blizzard giving in to their whining will only make them whine harder imo. Not getting the gear you want from your 1 hour/week LFR schedule? Try actual end game raiding then.


Too funny again. You see anyone complaining about "not having l33tz gearzz" in this thread? Or anyone who activity/achieve feed reflects a "1 hour/week LFR schedule"?

"Try actual end game raiding then"

Love to. You taking sub-485 iLv gear dependent warriors who don't know the fights into your raid group? Yes?

Alternatively, you could read the thread before flapping your lips, eh?


I started raiding with my current guild 3 weeks ago and was ilvl 484....so your low ilvl score qq is falling on deaf ears. Find a guild that cares more about a quality player and less about zomg phat gearz zscorez! There are a ton of guilds out there willing to gear a competent player that knows his class and the fights, especially this close to a major content release. Now if you stand in fire, and don't know your class and are unwilling to learn, then I feel like your current gear score suits you. (before you cry saying you haven't had the chance to learn the normal mode fights, go check out fatboss on youtube. They do amazing short guides and they're the reason I was able to do so well when I started raiding a few weeks ago).

I did read the thread, I even went back and re read your posts. All you've been doing is qq'ing about how RNG isn't loving you long time and your gear score sucks and your feelers are hurt at blizzard. I have literally been back to WoW 7 weeks.....I put a ton of effort into leveling/gearing up and I feel like my reward = my effort. I feel like there are a lot of players out there(maybe not the ones crying on the forums) that have seen similar effort to reward ratios. I'm sorry you've been playing for 18 weeks and haven't even managed to buy VP gear? If you're not going to try, you don't get to whine about it. Scrubbing through LFR where you can literally ignore every boss mechanic (apart from elegon's platform drop ((even though 8-10 ppl ignore it anyway))) does not entitle you to sweet LFR purples whenever you decide it's time, sorry :(

EDIT: I looked at your profile and you have 6 LFR msv boss kills and like 4 HoF LFR boss kills....so I feel like you haven't really been trying all that hard. So either you're just trolling (likely) or you expect to get geared from occasionally running LFR to see content?
Edited by Treiz on 2/18/2013 8:42 AM PST
90 Worgen Priest
2780
02/18/2013 08:10 AMPosted by Zysis
Expect nothing, then you'll never be disappointed.


I could not agree with you more! A "Plan for the worst, hope for the best" mentality has yet to let me down!
90 Goblin Warrior
11860
I killed a total of 86 LFR bosses before receiving my first piece of gear. HTFU!
90 Dwarf Warrior
11385
02/18/2013 08:18 AMPosted by Treiz
I started raiding with my current guild 3 weeks ago and was ilvl 484....so your low ilvl score qq is falling on deaf ears.


02/18/2013 08:18 AMPosted by Treiz
I have literally been back to WoW 7 weeks.....I put a ton of effort into leveling/gearing up and I feel like my reward = my effort.


So, to recap, in 4 weeks you leveled from 85 to 90, and got a raid ready iLv of 484 via 3 runs through LFR, the rep/quest ring and neck, and 3k VP (prob a back and ring). Anything since via LFR is just gravy. You do realize that is pretty much the standard minimum iLv to get into a raid group unless it's a guild group that can and is willing to carry you? You also realize that the higher your iLevel, the harder it is to increase due to diminishing returns? The capability difference between 479 and 484 is...considerable. Which, since you're driving an spriest, ought to know. For my effort, which is at minimum equivalent to yours prior to raiding, my "reward" is an iLv of 379. So, I really can't say my reward=my effort. Would you? You call your efforts "a ton of effort", yet accuse me of "haven't really been trying all that hard". So which is it? I'm "not trying very hard", or you got the stuff handed to you? Have to say, from my perspective...you got the gear handed to you by fortunate RNG and we're on opposite ends of the RNG curve. Is that the way it really ought to be? Some of us with a 3% drop rate, some of us...considerably higher? From my perspective, the LFR loot system is deeply flawed...from yours, it's just peachy keen OK.
Edited by Bitarsson on 2/18/2013 9:45 AM PST
90 Worgen Priest
2780
02/18/2013 09:27 AMPosted by Bitarsson
I started raiding with my current guild 3 weeks ago and was ilvl 484....so your low ilvl score qq is falling on deaf ears.


I have literally been back to WoW 7 weeks.....I put a ton of effort into leveling/gearing up and I feel like my reward = my effort.


So, to recap, in 4 weeks you leveled from 85 to 90, and got a raid ready iLv of 484 via 3 runs through LFR, the rep/quest ring and neck, and 3k VP (prob a back and ring). Hey, pretty much the same as I, LOL. Anything since via LFR is just gravy. You do realize that is pretty much the standard minimum iLv to get into a raid group unless it's a guild group that can and is willing to carry you? You also realize that the higher your iLevel, the harder it is to increase due to diminishing returns? The capability difference between 479 and 484 is...considerable. For my effort, which is at minimum equivalent to yours prior to raiding, my "reward" is an iLv of 379. So, I really can't say my reward=my effort. Would you? You call your efforts "a ton of effort", yet accuse me of "haven't really been trying all that hard". So which is it? I'm "not trying very hard", or you got the stuff handed to you?


Where inl my previous post does it say I've only been raiding for 3 weeks? God you're really so lazy that you didn't even look at my profile, noticed my cata raid progression and logically concluded that I started leveling from 85 7 weeks ago (which took me 3 days, not 4 weeks like you so intelligently guessed). I said I had been raiding with my CURRENT guild for 3 weeks (again go look at my profile and you'll see I have more than 3 normal kills....) You can go check my logs since you think I'm getting gear handed to me....your type of gamer is wrong with gaming today. Please just un sub if you're having such a bad time because "that'll show 'em"
90 Orc Warrior
13605
you got the gear handed to you by fortunate RNG. Is that the way it really ought to be?


How should it be? Every boss gives you a drop? One per wing of LFR? Its been random since the beginning, people need to understand that. The only way to be certain you will upgrade your gear is to valor cap and rep grinding. Every other way is open to chance. You have had 18 weeks to get 18k valor to fill missing epic spots. If pugs want high ilevels thats their problem, not blizzards. Find a guild that will take you for fill in spots, prove your worth, move up the ranks to full time raider. That way you can see the content you so desire. Even then you wont be sure to get loot. I can tell you stories about RNG hate from my raiding days. It happens to everyone. Quit crying and go play.
90 Dwarf Warrior
11385
02/18/2013 08:18 AMPosted by Treiz
I started raiding with my current guild 3 weeks ago and was ilvl 484


02/18/2013 08:18 AMPosted by Treiz
I have literally been back to WoW 7 weeks


Dude, you wrote it, not I. What, you make a habit of posting BS that supports your fable? ROFLMAO!
90 Human Warlock
11015
12/17/2012 09:23 AMPosted by Feihun
You have killed a total of 11 bosses total, that is not even close to a sufficient sample size.


I killed 101 bosses straight (counting total kills on three characters) with no loot recently. Have killed anywhere between 37 to 68 in a row prior to that.

A decent sample size that yields around 1.8% drop chance, which I suppose isn't too far below whatever the drop is supposed to be (5%?) ..... but it seems pretty low anyway.

I don't really care on this character, but did start to feel the sting of this when I leveled a monk, and several weeks later have yet to receive anything at all (my lootless streak in lfr was broken by this char, which I don't need loot on). I am fairly confident my monk will never receive loot in lfr and will stop bothering with lfr altogether after next week since I'm already raiding on my monk anyway, and have received several normal raid drops.
90 Human Warlock
11015
02/18/2013 09:47 AMPosted by Arkthan
you got the gear handed to you by fortunate RNG. Is that the way it really ought to be?

How should it be? Every boss gives you a drop? One per wing of LFR? Its been random since the beginning, people need to understand that. The only way to be certain you will upgrade your gear is to valor cap and rep grinding. Every other way is open to chance. You have had 18 weeks to get 18k valor to fill missing epic spots. If pugs want high ilevels thats their problem, not blizzards. Find a guild that will take you for fill in spots, prove your worth, move up the ranks to full time raider. That way you can see the content you so desire. Even then you wont be sure to get loot. I can tell you stories about RNG hate from my raiding days. It happens to everyone. Quit crying and go play.


I agree with this also though. Read my above post and realize it's not likely you have worse RNG than I do, and I'm not mad about it. It is what it is, I have a guildie who gets drops in lfr every single lfr he's ever done, very often 2 drops in the same lfr, and he once got 4 drops in a terrace lfr, and I'm happy for him since he doesn't get to raid very often.

On my monk that has never seen a drop in lfr and never will, I had a questing green still, a couple of 450-458 ilvl pieces, and was still able to do vaults just fine. Chances are, if a pug is looking for high ilvl and requiring it they have been failing and are planning on failing some more at the mechanics. Look for a better run and a better guild.
90 Dwarf Warrior
11385
02/18/2013 09:47 AMPosted by Arkthan
How should it be? Every boss gives you a drop? One per wing of LFR? Its been random since the beginning, people need to understand that. The only way to be certain you will upgrade your gear is to valor cap and rep grinding. Every other way is open to chance. You have had 18 weeks to get 18k valor to fill missing epic spots. If pugs want high ilevels thats their problem, not blizzards. Find a guild that will take you for fill in spots, prove your worth, move up the ranks to full time raider. That way you can see the content you so desire. Even then you wont be sure to get loot. I can tell you stories about RNG hate from my raiding days. It happens to everyone. Quit crying and go play.


You spending VP on gear that's going to be completely obsolete in 2 weeks? Or capping it and saving it to buy from the new faction that apparently lets you buy some items at neutral rep? You pointlessly grinding content that is obsolete, "just because"? At this point, when entry level drops from 5.2 LFR are better than anything but 5.1 heroic level, why bother?

How should it be? How about the 15% drop rate Blizz claims vs. the 3% drop rate I've received? Would you posit that points to a "deeply flawed" loot system as per the thread title? "Just because" you can tell me war stories about "RNG hate from your raiding days" that's the way it always oughta be? You suffered, so should we? Zip it Grandpa, no one cares how hard it was back in the days you played WoW by candlelite.
90 Draenei Shaman
13805
02/17/2013 06:51 PMPosted by Deathbeard
Taking loot away from others and not being able to trade it is the worst part of this system
Well then problem solved because you don't "take loot away from others" under this system. Everyone rolls independently now. Under the old system if 24 people rolled a 99 and one person rolled a 100 the person with the 100 walked away with the loot. Under this system all 25 walk away with loot. That's why there is no need to pass anymore. I wish people would get this through their head.
90 Worgen Priest
2780
02/18/2013 10:01 AMPosted by Bitarsson
How should it be? Every boss gives you a drop? One per wing of LFR? Its been random since the beginning, people need to understand that. The only way to be certain you will upgrade your gear is to valor cap and rep grinding. Every other way is open to chance. You have had 18 weeks to get 18k valor to fill missing epic spots. If pugs want high ilevels thats their problem, not blizzards. Find a guild that will take you for fill in spots, prove your worth, move up the ranks to full time raider. That way you can see the content you so desire. Even then you wont be sure to get loot. I can tell you stories about RNG hate from my raiding days. It happens to everyone. Quit crying and go play.


You spending VP on gear that's going to be completely obsolete in 2 weeks? Or capping it and saving it to buy from the new faction that apparently lets you buy some items at neutral rep? You pointlessly grinding content that is obsolete, "just because"? At this point, when entry level drops from 5.2 LFR are better than anything but 5.1 heroic level, why bother?

How should it be? How about the 15% drop rate Blizz claims vs. the 3% drop rate I've received? Would you posit that points to a "deeply flawed" loot system as per the thread title? "Just because" you can tell me war stories about "RNG hate from your raiding days" that's the way it always oughta be? You suffered, so should we? Zip it Grandpa, no one cares how hard it was back in the days you played WoW by candlelite.


Dude is obv a troll. Reported.
90 Draenei Shaman
13805
Note the armory...I've killed over 300 LFR bosses, used 3 coins per week. Started playing this toon second MoP went live, let it sit when I couldn't get any gear, then went back to it. My iLv is 481, with a grand total of 5 LFR drops. Still have 3 heroic blues, and people laugh when I try to get this toon into an actual raid.
Then your time would have been better spent grinding out Shieldwall rep. The Helmbreaker Medallion only costs 1750 valor points. Also your armory only shows 81 boss kills. That's less than a third of what you're claiming. 481 ilevel is more than enough to go on for normal raids. If people are laughing you're not asking the right people.

Random is random. My alt at http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sentinels/Kamzoil/advanced has been much luckier than my main (who I'm posting on).
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