LFR loot system is deeply flawed.

90 Blood Elf Paladin
9885
i absolutely love how people go "i need this" and link some purple from whatever.
the irony being, youre playing a videogame ... which isnt a necessity, its a recreational activity.

so, neither are the drops ... theyre something you would like to have, but yeah ... we dont get what we want often ... ive had to make do with a dps axe for my tanking set because nothing better drops for me ... ive been in 3 weeks worth of LFR dropping a coin in each encounter and for the first 2 weeks i got nothin but gold, this week i get 3 items ... 2 in the same run and finally manage to make the itemlevel for heart of fear.
I gave up complainin' about drops after losing the roll on the judgement legplates 7 years ago, after seeing them drop 3 raids in a row tbh, its just not worth it :P
90 Orc Death Knight
18660
01/16/2013 02:15 PMPosted by Tikaru
The only flaw is people thinking LFR should be some "loot pinata" like 5-mans.


Ill bite, Why "shouldn't" it be. LFR is low end content, it isn't normals. Plenty of people want to run their alts through, but don't have multiple 8 hour increments of free time to be spending into 5 LFR wings.

Why shouldn't LFR have a good or even exceptional ROI ?

you have to keep in mind, DS LFR ... 2 wings. 2 hours investment to clear both on a good day. 1000 valor for doing both.

Now, its 5 Wings, 1.5-2 hours a piece per wing, not per raid. (they are harder than DS was) ... and they give 90 valor a piece. total of 450 valor. Items dont cost less... They just gave us less valor per week, less valor per LFR wing. if it was 200 valor for the first time you did a wing of LFR, I could understand.

But you still have the point that in DS, people queued for one of two wings. You had 50% of people in one or the other. ... now you have 20% ... your chances of finding a the missing class you need went from 50% to 20% ... It would be cool if we could get a Random LFR, where you get 200 for the first run a week, 50 per additional run, and you could be used for any of the other queues.

And please RNG hurts the game and helps the game. It needs to be managed and adjusted to be less punishing, but keep some distance on time spent vs gear. And allow people to finish a character... Allow them to move onto an alt and run LFR without having to keep doing it on their Mains.
Edited by Concequence on 1/16/2013 2:32 PM PST
90 Human Rogue
13055
Why not just redesign it so that you are given the boss' full loot table, each piece is randomly assigned a drop percent, and the player is allowed to roll on that specific item at whatever random percent is granted.

i.e.:

LFR Lei Shi dies:
Shoulders of the Shadow Vanquisher: 15%
Spiritsever: 9%
Stalker's Cord of Eternal Autumn: 32%
Terror in the Mists: 27%

I really want the dagger, so I'd take my chances on rolling with just a 9% chance of winning the dagger. This lets the game distribute loot relatively randomly, prevents getting the same trinket 4 times, and maintains the random 28g bag win. The same can apply for coins, everyone wins.
Edited by Shivu on 1/16/2013 2:27 PM PST
90 Human Paladin
10635
01/16/2013 02:25 PMPosted by Concequence
The only flaw is people thinking LFR should be some "loot pinata" like 5-mans.


Ill bite, Why "shouldn't" it be. LFR is low end content, it isn't normals. Plenty of people want to run their alts through, but don't have multiple 8 hour increments of free time to be spending into 5 LFR wings.

Why shouldn't LFR have a good or even exceptional ROI ?


Normal mode raiders never farm LFR for tier, weapons, trinkets and legendary quest items. Never.

It can be a loot piñata once the gear reflects the nature of the content. Not before.
90 Night Elf Druid
4045

The system is definitely superior on a technical and theoretical level, but the feeling it gives to the player (something incredibly difficult to quantify or test beforehand) is very very discouraging.


I agree. I swear it would feel so much different if rather than looking in the bottom left corner of the screen to see that you looted a bag of gold, have a big message of the screen that says "80 OR HIGHER TO WIN LOOT" and then show some graphical roll sequence that makes a big deal of the process. I'd feel better knowing that I had a few crappy rolls in a row or that I was so close to getting loot. You could have the coins either give you another roll or maybe lower than roll to 60 or higher.
I have also been a victim of receiving duplicate loot. By victim I mean that this should NEVER happen.


Yeah, because in a real raid you never see anything drop that the only person who can use it already has......

You actually think that once you win something it should be removed from the loot table? Entitled much?
90 Orc Warrior
13575
01/16/2013 02:25 PMPosted by Concequence
Why shouldn't LFR have a good or even exceptional ROI ?


Raid guilds would require constant running to get as much of an edge in their regular raids.

LFR is a way for nonraiders to see how raiding works and if they want to make the move upward. Imagine an LFR raider going into a real raid expecting to get geared up fully that night. People cant comprehend how the same gear drops for them from the same boss now. They wouldnt be able to handle not getting loot each boss kill.

You would gear up and stop playing till new gear came along. Blizzard saw how people got geared and quit for periods of time. The changes in this expac are partly to combat that.
90 Human Paladin
14455
01/16/2013 02:25 PMPosted by Concequence
The only flaw is people thinking LFR should be some "loot pinata" like 5-mans.


Ill bite, Why "shouldn't" it be. LFR is low end content, it isn't normals. Plenty of people want to run their alts through, but don't have multiple 8 hour increments of free time to be spending into 5 LFR wings.

Why shouldn't LFR have a good or even exceptional ROI ?


That's not what it was designed to do. It was created to allow casuals to see content, the loot is just an added bonus.
90 Tauren Druid
11445
01/16/2013 01:23 PMPosted by Snötlocker
I have been doing raids in LFG for awhile now, and I have yet to see anyone get a tier piece.


Because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it's not happening. I never link loot when I get it, even if someone is asking.

FYI - Without the stats, I gear faster with LFR than I did when running ICC back when I was more serious.
Edited by Ntah on 1/16/2013 2:34 PM PST
Basically what I'm reading seems to say that LFR users want a better chance at loot for doing much less work to get it.

I have no issues with LFR or the people who run it regularly. It's great for people who don't want to or can't raid to be able to see content and get new gear.

I do have a problem with people getting all upset over loot. In any raiding situation, you can run it week after week and not see anything you need drop, or if it does drop, you can lose the roll to another raider. There's always another chance. Keep killing those raid bosses!
90 Night Elf Druid
4045
01/16/2013 02:32 PMPosted by Ntah
I have been doing raids in LFG for awhile now, and I have yet to see anyone get a tier piece.


Because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it's not happening. I never link loot when I get it, even if someone is asking.

FYI - Without the stats, I gear faster with LFR than I did when running ICC back when I was more serious.


lol. I did LFR and Sha about 7 or 8 times -- got ALL gold bags, and decided PVE wasn't for me.
90 Orc Death Knight
18660
Why not just redesign it so that you are given the boss' full loot table, each piece is randomly assigned a drop percent, and the player is allowed to roll on that specific item at whatever random percent is granted.

i.e.:

LFR Lei Shi dies:
Shoulders of the Shadow Vanquisher: 15%
Spiritsever: 9%
Stalker's Cord of Eternal Autumn: 32%
Terror in the Mists: 27%

I really want the dagger, so I'd take my chances on rolling with just a 9% chance of winning the dagger. This lets the game distribute loot relatively randomly, prevents getting the same trinket 4 times, and maintains the random 28g bag win. The same can apply for coins, everyone wins.


I would REALLY like this. If i put my coin into the slot machine, can I at least choose what i'm rolling for. Maybe I hover over the loot table and drop my coin onto "Garalon's Tank Helm" ... then I know if I lose the roll I know it was 15% ... but If I win, I dont get that Ring I don't need. these Luck coins don't feel Lucky at all.

I mean we used to have a chance to roll on maybe a sword and an axe and a helmet on a single boss. Now we get 1 roll for any item, and spend a coin for one more.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9885
I can also see where the devs come from for LFR's abysmal loot drop rates, remember that this is supposed to give people who dont have the time for guild raids a chance to explore the raid content, because they couldnt do it before LFR without devoting more time to the game than they could.
its not supposed to be fast and easy gear, thats heroics ... and if youre an LFR goer who's using it for the mentioned purpose, you shouldnt complain about the drops ... id just be glad that you can experience the content personally.
01/16/2013 02:13 PMPosted by Darkprowler
RNG isn't really as random. I've watched all leather wearing toons, including my own, gear 2-3 times faster then any cloth/mail/plate wearers. The RNG gods really do favor leather wearers because monk is Blizzards new baby.


My monk disagrees, she has had terrible luck.
90 Orc Death Knight
18660
That's not what it was designed to do. It was created to allow casuals to see content, the loot is just an added bonus.


You know very well that's not how its used. How many people run LFR once, and are like yep cool done with this patch, /quit

You know very well we do LFR over and over so we can gear our guys. The game is about character improvement.

I will bet those who do LFR do it until all of their gear is replaced with something better than what is available in LFR. Maybe they don't even like the raid anymore. But they do it... so they can improve their character.
90 Orc Death Knight
18660
You would gear up and stop playing till new gear came along. Blizzard saw how people got geared and quit for periods of time. The changes in this expac are partly to combat that.


You don't think people who DON'T get the loot they want aren't quitting? How much torture do you expect someone to take?

I got my main geared and immediately started to gear my alts. Options for the guild in raid comp is important, especially on smaller servers where we don't have as many players to work with.

01/16/2013 02:28 PMPosted by Yandere
Normal mode raiders never farm LFR for tier, weapons, trinkets and legendary quest items. Never.


You are wrong. I am farming LFR for gear. I have not replaced my Blue helmet. and Im using valor for upgrades not something I will replace. Everyone in my guild is farming LFR for upgrades. We are having trouble downing Garalon because the dps check is so incredibly tight... no chance at the helmet there. the helmets before that arent as good as the LFR Garalon Helm. So I run it... and will keep running it.
90 Human Paladin
10635
01/16/2013 02:46 PMPosted by Concequence
You are wrong. I am farming LFR for gear. I have not replaced my Blue helmet. and Im using valor for upgrades not something I will replace. Everyone in my guild is farming LFR for upgrades. We are having trouble downing Garalon because the dps check is so incredibly tight... no chance at the helmet there. the helmets before that arent as good as the LFR Garalon Helm. So I run it... and will keep running it.


Your sarcasm detector is broken ;)
90 Orc Warrior
13575
01/16/2013 02:46 PMPosted by Concequence
You don't think people who DON'T get the loot they want aren't quitting? How much torture do you expect someone to take?


If LFR fails you there is always rep gear. Its not like LFR gear is the only thing in the game. Thats also why valor gear is gated, to keep you from maxing your gear quickly and stop playing.
90 Orc Death Knight
18660
01/16/2013 02:37 PMPosted by Èèzàri
its not supposed to be fast and easy gear, thats heroics ... and if youre an LFR goer who's using it for the mentioned purpose, you shouldnt complain about the drops ..


Heroics don't drop 483's and 489's ... LFR does. Itemization is better on Raid items than vendors.

Sad to say if LFR was to see content, it wouldn't drop loot. And trust me, If LFR didnt drop loot, NO ONE would be doing it. Casuals want to see the content yes. They want character progression and perhaps even alt progression.

People used to be able to finish their LFRs, do a couple heroics. And then cap. And then hop on their healer and help their guild run another LFR, or some heroics. And they got their characters geared enough so they were options when Normals were short on people or roles. Say on a low pop server where tanks are rare... and you run a rogue, but your alt DK is all decked out in LFR gear and some Valor epics, you could hop in the raid and fill in to keep the raid going for that week. 9 other people thanked you for that, and it was a really good feeling to have your pocket tank for just such an occasion... and you had that healer you were working on, You spent your LFR's on every week, they only took 2 hours per character so it was fun to knock them out, the pace was fast and fun. You never got bored because you had so many characters available, you got to perfect your rotations on several classes. It was about playing your characters... not struggling to play one.
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