Logical Looting System

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86 Goblin Warlock
4380
12/20/2012 02:39 PMPosted by Precipitate
Well now you get the staff while the poor guy with the green staff gets nothing. This is better...?


Except you winning the staff doesn't effect anyone else chances to win anything else that drops.

In the old system you would have STILL won that item.
90 Human Warlock
9420
Most people feel that the looting system is based on meter numbers and what not. Lots are going afk during fights or just using minimal attacks to keep numbers low so they have a better chance of getting higher rolls for loot. This is the new way of looting that is caused by the lack of a script for the new looting system. I'm sure by February that most LFR, Sha, Galleon fights, will be half the raid going AFK...
90 Human Warlock
9420
12/20/2012 03:00 PMPosted by Hathios
Well now you get the staff while the poor guy with the green staff gets nothing. This is better...?


Except you winning the staff doesn't effect anyone else chances to win anything else that drops.

In the old system you would have STILL won that item.


Not if you clicked "pass" on the item..
90 Human Warlock
9420
The problem you having an issue with is not a programming one, it is a philosophical one. If you research a bit, you will find that the Devs so far like loot being random - it is by intent.

There was a recent post on the EU forums discussing this issue, you can find a link to it on mmo-champion.

And to add - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4736886

Here is a model I’ve seen some people say they want:

  • The boss dies.
  • I get the exact item or items I want.
  • I never have to come back and kill this boss again.
  • I politely ask Blizzard when there will be new content for me to run.


I added that, somewhat tongue in cheek, to point out that the intent of the new system is not to make killing bosses or getting loot more efficient, or to let you choose buffet-style which items you get. We like random loot being random, as long as it isn’t so frustratingly random that you stop enjoying the experience. The intent of the new loot system is really to relieve social pressure on a group of random and anonymous strangers. We think it is reasonable for groups of friends, such as the typical raiding guild, to have a discussion about how to divvy up loot. That discussion is a tried and true RPG tradition going back to D&D or earlier. We don’t think that is a reasonable expectation for Raid Finder, though.
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I WANT THE LOOT TO STAY RAMDOM. I would rather go after the same boss for loot 20 times and get nothing! Then to go after the same boss and get the same item 6 times. When others in the same group can use the item.

Most people feel that the looting system is based on meter numbers and what not. Lots are going afk during fights or just using minimal attacks to keep numbers low so they have a better chance of getting higher rolls for loot. This is the new LFR logic. This is the new way of looting that is caused by the lack of a script for the new looting system. I'm sure by February that most LFR, Sha, Galleon fights, will be half the raid going AFK...
90 Blood Elf Priest
16330
12/20/2012 02:29 PMPosted by Precipitate
So people getting loot that they dont need or already have is better then getting loot you need or could use? Alrighty, glad philosophy was your major at university. All that is needed is a little tiny script. That can state to pass the role on to another individual that has a lower ilvl in that slot. This is Logical, if you can not trade the item. Make gear as random as possible, that is not the issue.


But this then completely negates blizzards goal of having LFR loot be completely personal. As soon as you are able to pass on loot to give it to someone else, you are effecting other people's chances at loot. Blizzard doesn't want other people to effect your loot chance.
90 Human Warlock
9420
CONCLUSION: SO People who want LFR, Sha or Galleon gear. Just go AFK during fight, lower numbers get higher rolls and the "Drama Ensues"
90 Troll Rogue
11815
12/20/2012 03:01 PMPosted by Precipitate
Most people feel that the looting system is based on meter numbers and what not. Lots are going afk during fights or just using minimal attacks to keep numbers low so they have a better chance of getting higher rolls for loot. This is the new way of looting that is caused by the lack of a script for the new looting system. I'm sure by February that most LFR, Sha, Galleon fights, will be half the raid going AFK...


I can't help you if you believe this actually......

People only say that jokingly btw. It's sort of like people doing odd things hoping for their favorite sports team to win. Wearing a certain shirt, sitting in a special chair, etc.... just adds to the fun. Doesn't effect anything.
90 Goblin Mage
14915
12/20/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Precipitate
yeah frustrated, kinda sad when you make scripts for a living and someone making one for a game and making huge amounts of money doing it cant get it even close to right...


That's right. The reason they have the looting system they have is that they just can't figure out how to program a different one.
11 Goblin Rogue
0
12/20/2012 03:27 PMPosted by Precipitate
CONCLUSION: SO People who want LFR, Sha or Galleon gear. Just go AFK during fight, lower numbers get higher rolls and the "Drama Ensues"


Performance has nothing to do with the rolls. it is a simple random function as you will find in all development languages. If your random falls in a range you get a random piece of loot based on your class and spec
95 Human Priest
18850
12/20/2012 02:16 PMPosted by Evaren
How is it worse? The only difference is that you winning loot doesn't cause other people to lose it. Sounds better to me.


That's not the only difference.

First, group composition doesn't matter, and that's a large difference.

Second, you can't pass on items, that's a large difference.

Third, you can't trade items you win, that's a large difference.

In fact, for a reasonable group composition, you're significantly better off in the new system on a per boss level.

Read this post if you want more math: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5836093756

Note that I ran those numbers assuming a 16% chance in LFR when now it's actually 15%. Meaning you're slightly worse off than those numbers suggest, and those numbers already suggest you're worse off in general.
100 Pandaren Priest
16405
You can't simply compare getting useless/no loot to getting an upgrade. The equivalent from the old system is: No warlock loot dropped.

12/20/2012 03:13 PMPosted by Precipitate
Most people feel that the looting system is based on meter numbers and what not.
They're idiots chasing some imaginary correlation. If you get a 476 that you don't even need and some noob in greens is cheering because he won something that's a huge upgrade, YOU BOTH GOT THE SAME RESULT. He's not getting better loot because he performed worse! All he's doing is catching up.

Gear improvement is a curve, not a straight line. It's easier to catch up than to get full BiS in every single slot.
Edited by Breathkeeper on 12/20/2012 4:39 PM PST
100 Worgen Warrior
15840
12/20/2012 03:27 PMPosted by Precipitate
CONCLUSION: SO People who want LFR, Sha or Galleon gear. Just go AFK during fight, lower numbers get higher rolls and the "Drama Ensues"


Your theory and their's is completely flawed. I can provide LFR reports showing me #1-3 on DPS and getting loot. People have been AFKing in LFR shortly after it was released and still winning the Need or greed roles against people who were trying. How would that make you feel ? To see the guy who was AFK the whole fight win that AXE\Trinket whatever that you've been after for months ?

How does it make you feel to see people win gear and then DE it ? To see people wearing heroic gear and rolling need on LFR gear, because they want to troll people ?

The new system is pretty damn awesome. I don't have people rolling on items that I can use for their off specs, or for their Troll specs.

Who cares if the same thing drops ? I've been in normal raids were same junk drops off the boss every week and never the items I wanted. We don't have a holy Pally, you think I like watching pally gear drop over gear I'm after?

Sure it would be great if I could get everything I wanted in the first run, but then I'm not 100% sure that is the best way to do it.
Edited by Daleus on 12/20/2012 5:57 PM PST
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