Buffing Disc in PTR 5.2

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90 Pandaren Priest
12725
The reason spirit shell/divine aegis makes up such a large percentage of our healing now is because we're all stacking mastery. You don't want to look at a log and say, "well, these spells did this much healing compared to these spells." You want to look at a log and say, "well, I cast this many spells over these other spells. The biggest number of spells I cast gets the most out of which secondary stat?"


Well, try this.... Stack all critical strike for a week and raid as you normally do then do it again while stacking haste. Compare the logs from both situations to your current logs with mastery stacking. I'd wager in all 3 situations DA and SS smoke everything else and provide the bulk of your throughput on most encounters.
90 Blood Elf Priest
9925
I feel like I'm poking a stick into a bear cage here, but que sera.

Crit's value for Disc has historically been dictated by raid encounter as well, which math models don't usually take into account. In this current tier of raiding Divine Aegis is valuable because it's extremely unlikely any raid member will go 15s without taking some sort of damage. This is further exacerbated by the 20% increase in DA value.

Thus, Twistedmind's data is a good look into the actual functions of secondary stats outside of theoretical numbers. While not totally indicative of everyone's spell usage, and not really modeling the increase of crit value due to non-PoH DA procs, it's still a lot more useful than looking at spells in a vacuum.
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
12/28/2012 08:13 AMPosted by Khendra
In this current tier of raiding Divine Aegis is valuable because it's extremely unlikely any raid member will go 15s without taking some sort of damage.


Feng. Spirit Kings. Elegon. Will of the Emperor. Zor'lok. Blade Lord. Wind Lord...eh, sometimes. Amber Shaper (until P3). Protectors (until P3). Lei Shi. Large swaths of Sha of Fear.

Are you absolutely sure your estimation of the current raid tier is correct? o_O
90 Night Elf Priest
12115
A pally crying over disc healing. Where were you in cata bro? Your tears taste like jellybeans.
90 Pandaren Priest
7670
I've been going this all wrong, and with adjusted calculations, it looks like Crit does trump Mastery next patch.

Based on this log http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-i2fim2v3dilwkyon/details/4/?s=5752&e=6640

Assuming 15% crit and 55% mastery raid buffed post-patch 5.2. Assumung spell breakdown of 25% SS, 32% DA, 8% PW:S and 35% other heals; essentially high DA and PW:S usage which should favour Mastery.

SS:
% of overall healing from SS = 25%
% of overall healing from SS assuming zero crit/mastery = 25%/1.15/1.1775 = 12.25%
% of overall healing from SS contributed by crit/mastery = 25% - 12.25% = 12.75%

Contribution per point of mastery and crit to SS is in the ratio of 0.833:1

% of overall healing contributed by mastery = 0.833/1.833 * 12.75% = 5.79%
% of overall healing contributed by crit = 1/1.833 * 12.75% = 6.96%

DA:
On average, 50% of total DA comes from a non-crit PoH, 25% from a PoH crit and the remaining 25% from other spell crits. To clarify, a DA from a non-crit PoH only benefits from mastery only while the other DA benefit from both mastery and crit.

% of overall healing from DA = 32%

% of overall healing from non-crit PoH DA = 32% * 0.5 = 16%
% of overall healing from non-crit PoH DA assuming zero mastery = 16%/1.55 = 10.32%
% of overall healing from non-crit PoH DA contributed by mastery = 16% - 10.32% = 5.68%

% of overall healing from crit PoH DA = 32% * 0.25 = 8%
% of overall healing from crit PoH DA assuming zero crit/mastery = 8%/2/1.55 = 2.58%
% of overall healing from crit PoH DA contributed by crit = 2.58%
% of overall healing from crit PoH DA contributed by mastery = 8%-(2.58%*2) = 2.84%

% of overall healing from DA triggered by other spell crits = 32% * 0.25 = 8%
% of overall healing from DA triggered by other spell crits assuming zero crit/mastery = 0% (obviously no crit = no DA)
% of overall healing from DA triggered by other spell crits contributed by crit = 8%/1.55 = 5.16%
% of overall healing from DA triggered by other spell crits contributed by mastery = 8% - 5.16% = 2.84%

PW:S
% of overall healing from PW:S = 8%
% of overall healing from SS assuming zero mastery = 8%/1.55 = 5.16%
% of overall healing from SS contributed by mastery = 8% - 5.16% = 2.84%

Other spells:
% of overall healing from other spells = 35%
% of overall healing from other spells assuming zero crit = 35%/1.15 = 30.4%
% of overall healing from other spells contributed by crit = 35% - 30.4% = 4.6%

Thus,
% of overall healing contributed by crit = 6.96% + 2.58% + 5.16% + 4.6% = 19.3%
% of overall healing contributed per 600 crit rating = 19.3/15/1.03 (to account for the meta) = 1.25%

% of overall healing contributed by mastery = 5.79% + 5.68% + 2.84% + 2.84% + 2.84% = 19.99%
% of overall healing contributed per 600 mastery rating = 19.99/(55/2.5) = 0.91%

Please feel free to point out if I've made glaring mistakes or horrendously wrong assumptions.
Edited by Ceddya on 12/29/2012 6:25 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Priest
11430
Looked over the math you did, ceddya. Couple things I caught on first glance:

IF'd casts during spirit shell shield for twice the amount as a regular cast (in other words, it benefits from the crit modifier even though it's a guaranteed crit). It will not, however, benefit from the 3% meta gem modifier.

You're also assuming that crit heals will have the same %overheal as non-crit heals, which is not exactly true.
90 Pandaren Priest
7670
IF'd casts during spirit shell shield for twice the amount as a regular cast (in other words, it benefits from the crit modifier even though it's a guaranteed crit). It will not, however, benefit from the 3% meta gem modifier.


Hmm, I always assumed it would cap at 100%. Guess not! Anyway, I've adjusted the values with that in mind.

12/29/2012 05:58 AMPosted by Icecreamsoup
You're also assuming that crit heals will have the same %overheal as non-crit heals, which is not exactly true.


That's unfortunately an assumption that has to be made. The main thing that it'll affect is DA, but with such low overhealing on DA as it is, the difference is going to be marginal regardless.

Still, do let me know if you find an efficient way to account for overhealing on our non-absorbs.
Edited by Ceddya on 12/29/2012 6:28 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Priest
11430
12/29/2012 06:23 AMPosted by Ceddya
Still, do let me know if you find an efficient way to account for overhealing on our non-absorbs


Efficient? No. Crit modeling is clunky and unless you actually run a simulation, you're going to have to make tons of assumptions.

Best thing I've come up with so far is to generate several/many different sets of assumptions, and see how crit fares in each scenario. I'll post numbers later, heading out
90 Pandaren Priest
7670
Best thing I've come up with so far is to generate several/many different sets of assumptions, and see how crit fares in each scenario. I'll post numbers later, heading out


Crit's value is probably slightly inflated in my numbers due to overhealing not being accounted for, which is why I used a log with slightly higher absorbs to compensate. I've been a big proponent of Mastery for a while now, but with these new numbers, I really don't see any realistic scenario (at least this tier) whereby Mastery will pull ahead of Crit in terms of pure numbers.

Functionally though, whilst Mastery may not contribute as much HPS as Crit post-5.2, the fact that it can more reliably increase the numbers from PoH/DA stacking mean that it'll probably still be a worthwhile stat on fights that allow you to do so.
Edited by Ceddya on 12/29/2012 12:00 PM PST
1 Troll Shaman
0
Surprisingly it appears to actually be a nerf to disc... I mean spirit shell will no longer benefit from mastery >.>
90 Pandaren Priest
15725
I dispute the 50% DA being fixed. I heal myself in game and the DA absorb listed in the buffs never exceeds 40% (the change was said to be 30=>50 but I thought it had been 40 already)

As for the healing output, the change in DA on crits can net an increase with the latest changes.
100 Blood Elf Priest
15195
If you want to discuss PTR changes, you shouldn't necro a thread this old. It'll just cause confusion.
90 Troll Priest
12105
02/16/2013 08:06 PMPosted by Nerfheals
If you want to discuss PTR changes, you shouldn't necro a thread this old. It'll just cause confusion.


Especially since there is that 6+ page thread, started this week, still on the front page:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7924332656
90 Human Death Knight
10705
The dead walk these halls..
90 Dwarf Priest
10145
12/21/2012 05:42 PMPosted by Jelvis
So disc is dominating in healing and their absorbs already overshadow all other healers healing when they outgear the fight, which for most ordinary groups is most fights yet they are buffing divine aegis by almost double? How does this make any sense what so ever? I dont understand how they nerf MW's to the ground buff disc to the top and then when its obvious they (disc) need a nerf it gets buffed more.


what the hell are you qq'ing about? all instant cast with 3 cc's in arena and barely any mana usage. ( from a PvP perspective )
Edited by Warlion on 2/17/2013 9:22 AM PST
90 Troll Priest
9550
I know guys, let's all revive a 2 month old thread. /endrant
100 Blood Elf Priest
15195
02/16/2013 08:06 PMPosted by Nerfheals
If you want to discuss PTR changes, you shouldn't necro a thread this old. It'll just cause confusion.


02/17/2013 09:21 AMPosted by Warlion
what the hell are you qq'ing about? all instant cast with 3 cc's in arena and barely any mana usage. ( from a PvP perspective )


02/16/2013 08:06 PMPosted by Nerfheals
If you want to discuss PTR changes, you shouldn't necro a thread this old. It'll just cause confusion.
Wait, where am I? HALP!
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