not a raider..... :(

90 Night Elf Druid
5515
I am posting this only to get opinions because it kinda stinks that to get the GOOD gear you have to raid to get it and I don't have time to join up and go raiding with groups. really I am disgruntled because I pay my hard earned money just like everyone else and can't get the top gear. yes I have been playing for a while and I am working my way thru all the dailies to get the good gear and am close to ilvl 480 now but unless something changes will never see over 500 with the big boyz.... i wish there was a way we could get top PVE gear without raiding is my whole point..

it would be nice to achieve the "good stuff" without having to quit my career to have enough time to play and get it. on my realm you will spend no less than 1.5 hours to assemble a raid group and then get it done in without wiping 5 times...

HAPPY HUNTING "WARCRAFT RULES"


I agree with you. I don't raid and don't want to even think about it, had some very bad experiences in some raid and 5 man groups, way to much drama. The only bad thing about doing dailies for gear is that you can never get a really good weapon.
Edited by Söulseeker on 1/3/2013 3:19 PM PST
100 Tauren Druid
15870
01/03/2013 02:39 PMPosted by Rygarius
If you're pressed for time and your goal is to see and experience raid content, LFR(Looking For Raid) is available and a relatively accessible way to experience that content. The item levels dropped from LFR isn't as high end as those from Heroic modes, but your character's item level doesn't have to be the sole barometer of how much fun you're having.


To be fair, a lot of times when people say they are pressed for time it mean that they cannot schedule their life around raid schedule and would need to have raid schedule fit their life. LFR is to see content and it is really not the same thing as joining a guild and raid with a set group. I don't understand why Blizzard doesn't have a more robust looking for guild tool in game. I think a more refined recruitment tool + a looking for guild tool (1 that let's you find a guild based on raid time) will solve a lot of problems that people currently have.

Stop defaulting to LFR as the god mode solution. The experience you get from raiding with a set group of people is far superior than LFR not to mention far more satisfying.
90 Pandaren Mage
12450
While that is true for quests and 5 mans. Killing rares solo can be tricky for some players. Obviously, it becomes infinitely easier with better gear.

This isn't a justification of easy to obtain higher ilvl gear, but it does show a potential reason for wanting said gear.
90 Night Elf Hunter
11355
For the most part, I just try to blind myself to the gearscores of others and just enjoy the game I enjoy rather than get competitive about it.

That said, in the back of my mind, I keep tossing around ideas for a raider / scout gear fork along the lines of the PvE/PvP gear fork so that people who aren't into dungeons/raids can have an advancement path that doesn't leave them feeling like second class citizens.
90 Orc Warlock
13430
01/03/2013 12:55 PMPosted by Macavelli
Why is getting out what you put in looked down upon by so many people in this game?


I agree, there's just always this sentiment from players of "I pay $15 just like you so I should have everything you have." But hey, time is money too, isn't it? Regardless of my personal/professional life or yours, if I put in more time, shouldn't there be more reward for it?

MMOs have many similarities and differences to single player console game. For a game like Gears of War, you pay the same as someone else to buy it and can play it slowly and eventually achieve the same as someone who blew through it. But you're not sitting there next to someone else who finished the game already, so there's no envy factor. There's not also an automatic update to the storyline. Instead, a sequal comes out, Gears of War 2, and you can choose to pay for that. Similarly but not quite the same, you'll continue paying $15/mth and eventually 5.2 will come out.

Back to the point, MMOs inevitably involve comparison of your player to others by virtue of their social nature. Sometimes you'll see someone in full T14H gear while you're running around in LFR and VP gear, and you might think, hey I pay and play too, why can't I have that gear?

You can. But the T14H raider is allowed to ask, hey, I put in a lot of time and effort, wiped for hours and hours on fight after fight, why should they get the same rewards for much less effort?

It does invalidate the hardcore's accomplishments to an extent if you start giving out the "best top-end PVE gear" through significantly easier means. Kinda like if you gave out Elite Conq gear for just winning random BGs.
90 Troll Druid
11475
Look, I understand that you do not have the time to raid with your career. If it takes your realm over an hour to get a raid together and rolling you probably wont have much luck. But how can you ask for spoils when you haven't worked for them, if I were a potential employer should I pay you before you even start working?

Things happen that prevent us from doing what we want, but, there is always a way around these barriers. You just have to find them.
90 Tauren Death Knight
9250
01/03/2013 02:39 PMPosted by Rygarius
If you're pressed for time and your goal is to see and experience raid content, LFR(Looking For Raid) is available and a relatively accessible way to experience that content. The item levels dropped from LFR isn't as high end as those from Heroic modes, but your character's item level doesn't have to be the sole barometer of how much fun you're having.


Raiding is more than obtaining a higher item level. It's always a way to gain access to bragging rights, comradery, friendships, and so much more. The experience of being apart of a group working towards a goal is the primary reason I (and most people I know) raid. It's an opportunity to be apart of something.

If I enter an LFR as a DPS and auto-attack/shot the boss and AFK, I probably won't get kicked and I will probably have the same likelihood for loot as the Heroic geared DPS doing 33% of the raids' damage. LFR doesn't let you experience the content anymore than watching a kill video or being in a spectator mode. "Look at these cool mechanics we came up with! Don't actually experience them... but look at them!!"

I really don't like to be apart of the endless pit of negativity than the bulk of the forums has become, but I have to be real with this one. Perhaps making normal mode raiding more accessible is a good idea because let's be honest - We know it's not exciting content, and the people doing it week after week (getting no sense of progression) praying to the RNG gods for gear aren't exactly having a blast either.
Edited by Peekochu on 1/3/2013 3:22 PM PST
100 Blood Elf Hunter
7950
You can get a lot of good stuff outside of raiding as others pointed out.

Granted its not the 500+ raid gear, but for what I do I honestly don't need it.

I'm sitting at 480 right now, which can actually go higher if I want to upgrade it with valor. I do have a few pieces of mixed in PvP gear with it as well. Quite frankly, other than some of the tougher fights in Brawler's Guild, there's nothing short of world bosses and other players that are going to kill me unless I get overwhelmed.

I don't even do dungeons, LFR, pug raids, world bosses, and I have done exactly one scenario and received no loot from it on this character. I do however, enjoy fully what I do do.

...what I do do...that just sounded wrong, but anyway..

If you love the game as you say, then you're doing just fine unless you're dying repeatedly in the gear you currently have. The world doesn't have to be all about shinies, it can be what you do and how you do with what you have.
90 Worgen Hunter
14555
01/03/2013 02:39 PMPosted by Rygarius
your character's item level doesn't have to be the sole barometer of how much fun you're having.


Oh god if that were true then the top guilds are having the times of their lives.

And I've heard them, and that is definitely not true.
90 Human Mage
15295
01/03/2013 03:18 PMPosted by Passha
If we pay for our accts we deserve the same EQUAL level gear avaliable to us as raiders .


no, no you do not deserve the same gear that other people put in a great deal of effort/time to obtain

you know how you can get that gear? you can raid.
100 Human Warrior
11790
Before I reply, keep in mind Im fine with the way the system works currently. BUT that being said let me reply to this reply:

"But...why would you want the "good gear" if you are unable to, or have no intention, of raiding in it? "

The answer is probably the exact same reason you or any other person wants the "good gear". You can color it any way you want, deny it, doesnt matter. Unless you remove that "good gear" when you go out doing dailies, running instances, farming etc etc, then you are already answering your own question. I have said this a million times before and Ill continue to say it but until they make it where raid gear is ONLY USEABLE while in a raid group and IN A RAID INSTANCE then raiders really can't complain when people want better gear. Doesnt matter if a raider feels "they earned" their gear, as long as raiders use the argument that raid gear is for raiding and then proceed to use it outside of raiding, it makes all of their comments invalid.

That being said though, with LFR as easy as it is and with having an alternate upgrade path via valor, I can't see the complaints from people not raiding. Its easy enough to get decent gear without actually doing any raiding beyond LFR.
90 Troll Rogue
12450
Ill start with a quote from star trek just to irritate all the star wars fans.

Data to his Daughter: It has been my experience that life it is not about reaching the goal but rather about the experience of attempting to achieve that goal.

I relate this directly to WoW mainly because way to many people associate the BiS equipment with the ultimate goal. But realistically there is no requirement for them to have that equipment unless they are raiding. Raid equipment is there to help you progress in raiding. If you don't have time to raid there is little to no reason for you to have or require that equipment in anyway.

If you are playing wow because you think it is finish-able rather than because you enjoy the people, experience and the journey you are probably always going to be disappointed.
Edited by Dreltath on 1/3/2013 3:25 PM PST
100 Goblin Hunter
15055
The OP hasn't even cleared the second part of Vaults LFR, Nor Heart of Fear, and never stepped foot into ToES. I don't see why you want top end gear if you don't raid. What's it going to benefit you? Basically to me, if I wanted top end gear... I wanted it to improve my dps/tank/healing to help out the RAID to progress. Heck, I remember always needing Flasks and buff food for Sunwell and making Trash groups on alts to farm motes to gather materials just to make gloves to replace my Tier 6 for a slight Item Level upgrade.

I think all Kynsierra wants is to walk around Ironforge do a /flex look at my gear, sit on top the bridges corner and view everyone's target of target. Remember rogues that would stand in one spot for hours with Warglaives? Yeah, I see that happening in OPs eyes.
90 Draenei Hunter
12195
I am posting this only to get opinions because it kinda stinks that to get the GOOD gear you have to raid to get it and I don't have time to join up and go raiding with groups. really I am disgruntled because I pay my hard earned money just like everyone else and can't get the top gear. yes I have been playing for a while and I am working my way thru all the dailies to get the good gear and am close to ilvl 480 now but unless something changes will never see over 500 with the big boyz.... i wish there was a way we could get top PVE gear without raiding is my whole point..

it would be nice to achieve the "good stuff" without having to quit my career to have enough time to play and get it. on my realm you will spend no less than 1.5 hours to assemble a raid group and then get it done in without wiping 5 times...

HAPPY HUNTING "WARCRAFT RULES"


No you won't see that ilvl until 5.2 if you aren't willing to join a raid group. Companies that make MMO's aren't just gonna simply remove the stick and give you the carrot just because you happen to pay the same sub that people that put more time in WoW do. If you could get all the top gear with no effort then why raid at all? It'd make all of the time and hard work the people at Blizzard put into creating new content a total wash.
90 Undead Priest
19095
Still don't really understand why people feel compelled to get more gear if they're not raiding. Periods when I've quit raiding, I really focus more on achievements, leveling alts, etc, because really, the only purpose of gear is to help you kill more difficult content (or because it looks cool now that we have xmog). It's a means to an end, nothing more.

PVP is different. If you don't continue to gear, even your random BGs will get more difficult as your opponents become more geared.
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