Scarlet RP: Yea or Nay?

Many of you may not know me, some of you may. I have been, as far as I can tell, an important part in the server's Scarlet RP for a year or so, until I went on hiatus a few months ago.

I have returned after the long hiatus from WoW and acquired Mists of Pandaria recently, immersing myself in it's storyline while leveling.

My character was ICly on a spiritual journey to the Outlands during my time away, and he is as of now training at Tian Monastery in Pandaria while I level him to 90.

I have come to a point in my RP career that I must consider certain things.
- Should I continue the Scarlet legacy that I have led for so long? Is it worth the OOC complaints to do so, and hope that it subsides eventually?
- Should I merely offer my occasional support and sympathies for scarlet RPers and their guilds if they need it, and hope they continue the legacy for me?
- Or, should I abandon the Scarlet legacy entirely, and not give a damn whether others follow it or not?

Yes, I know the state of Scarlet lore as of the current implementations by Blizzard. The original Crusade is DEAD, the Onslaught is DEAD, the Risen are decaying quickly and are pretty much DEAD, and the Renegades are screwing everything up at the Monastery and on the verge of becoming DEAD.
Yes, I know of the Scarlet guilds currently making their presence known on WrA. I have little intention to join them, even if I remain in favor of Scarlet RP. I may place some alts in them to watch over them, however, and see to it their development and maintenance is smooth assuming either of the first 2 points are chosen.
Yes, I know you personally hate Scarlet RP, but please try not to give a biased response. I'm not here to listen to flaming wars over 'hurr durr Scarlets is dumb' or 'hurr durr our Scarlet RP is quality hurr'. I want an honest but non-biased suggestion. That's it.
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100 Human Priest
5350
My honest opinion?

Abandon the Scarlet angle in-character. And I don't mean that as "don't try, it'll suck." I mean that you should have your character consciously move on from it, as the entire movement is universally hated by pretty much everyone, and using the shell of it is borderline suicidal.

An alternative could be gathering up a group of Scarlet veterans who survived the massacre of their forces, and forming an entirely new group. Not Scarlet Crusade 2, but something more innocent of the connotations, like a religious order that discreetly harbors Scarlet sympathies. Use the new image as a puppet to keep that will alive, but never go near the existing imagery or behavior of the previous organizations.
Edited by Kristavere on 1/4/2013 5:05 AM PST
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http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7415607049
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01/04/2013 05:06 AMPosted by Astrid
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7415607049


Yes, I saw that thread. I even commented for her to 'get out now'.

I saw she was trying to make a guild for Scarlet roleplay. It brought forth bad memories, and I didn't want her to experience the same disheartenment I did. It's VERY difficult to properly roleplay a Scarlet, but it is quite rewarding at times as well. She seemed new to the concept, and the fact that she was already making a guild without knowing much about Scarlet RP seemed foolhardy.

I stand by what I said in that thread.
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01/04/2013 05:10 AMPosted by Vaallith
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7415607049


Yes, I saw that thread. I even commented for her to 'get out now'.

I saw she was trying to make a guild for Scarlet roleplay. It brought forth bad memories, and I didn't want her to experience the same disheartenment I did. It's VERY difficult to properly roleplay a Scarlet, but it is quite rewarding at times as well. She seemed new to the concept, and the fact that she was already making a guild without knowing much about Scarlet RP seemed foolhardy.

I stand by what I said in that thread.


I know, I just wanted to illustrate the sentiments there, and the overall feeling--it seems like a lot of work for little fun, why bother?
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I know, I just wanted to illustrate the sentiments there, and the overall feeling--it seems like a lot of work for little fun, why bother?


There's more fun than you would expect. I've actually made quite a few friends while following through in the Scarlet gig. Some I still keep up with today, some I hang out with on occasion... although there have been a couple bad eggs that I try to avoid.

The player base that does Scarlet RP is actually very decent. There's just a couple trolls that give it a bad name, really. I won't name names, but there are some among our server as we speak. You just need to point them out and seperate them from the rest of the herd.
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100 Night Elf Druid
12775
I think the second option Kristavere mentioned would make for an interesting RP guild or a concept for your character to follow.
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01/04/2013 05:23 AMPosted by Erydani
I think the second option Kristavere mentioned would make for an interesting RP guild or a concept for your character to follow.


I concur, and I may consider it down the line depending on my conclusion. It would be difficult for me, though, as I like to make it known if I and my allies are Scarlets or not. Vaalith is not the type to hide his true self, but like me right now, he is in conflict over if he should continue the Scarlet cause or no.
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I know, I just wanted to illustrate the sentiments there, and the overall feeling--it seems like a lot of work for little fun, why bother?


There's more fun than you would expect. I've actually made quite a few friends while following through in the Scarlet gig. Some I still keep up with today, some I hang out with on occasion... although there have been a couple bad eggs that I try to avoid.

The player base that does Scarlet RP is actually very decent. There's just a couple trolls that give it a bad name, really. I won't name names, but there are some among our server as we speak. You just need to point them out and seperate them from the rest of the herd.


It seems like you know the answers to your questions already, then.
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01/04/2013 05:37 AMPosted by Astrid
It seems like you know the answers to your questions already, then.

Not quite. I merely see that there are positive aspects of Scarlet RP, just as there are negative ones. I recognize that both are nearly evenly balanced, but in the long run, I need to know if it will benefit or impede me to proceed with Scarlet RP. Since I came back to WoW, I have been on a mission to gain acceptance from the RP community first and foremost, but since I can't make everyone like me, I want to find a niche to hold and become respected there. The only problem is that the Scarlet niche is dangerous, because while I can make friends with people inside the niche, the people outside the niche are much greater in numbers, and many of them despise Scarlet RP.
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It seems like you know the answers to your questions already, then.

Not quite. I merely see that there are positive aspects of Scarlet RP, just as there are negative ones. I recognize that both are nearly evenly balanced, but in the long run, I need to know if it will benefit or impede me to proceed with Scarlet RP. Since I came back to WoW, I have been on a mission to gain acceptance from the RP community first and foremost, but since I can't make everyone like me, I want to find a niche to hold and become respected there. The only problem is that the Scarlet niche is dangerous, because while I can make friends with people inside the niche, the people outside the niche are much greater in numbers, and many of them despise Scarlet RP.


Well, coming from someone who couldn't possibly give any less of a damn about Scarlet RP being or not being, or what-have-you; do what is the most enjoyable for you.
I only ever recommend people consider the work/PITA/backlash to fun/interesting/meaningful ratio and go from there. Like you said, not everyone's going to like you and attempting to win as many hearts and minds for a platform that only exists in your mind, (from what I can glean the goal is some kind of server notoriety/popularity/acceptance for a generally taboo RP line), is a fruitless endeavor and, in the end, won't mean nothin' to nobody.
And, as an aside, not every person that RP-walks by should or needs to know everything about your RP, (IE; the Scarlet flavors)--I see people doing this, wearing their history on their sleeve, and it just seems exhausting.
Edited by Astrid on 1/4/2013 6:05 AM PST
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Barkatelune, that's exactly the angle I was planning for Vaalith. To re-evaluate himself as a servant of the Light. He was already well aware of the darkness of the Scarlet Crusade, he suffered through it himself for a time, but all his life he's been trying to rebirth it in purity from the ashes of the corrupt old order. What REALLY shattered his spirit was when Joseph the Insane's 'renegades' took the Monastery and continued the tradition of 'kill everyone who isn't a scarlet', leading him to believe that the cause was cursed. Now he's wondering if he should just join the Argent Crusade and forget about his Scarlet past. He is repenting for EVERYTHING he has done in the past that he considers bad and that others have led him to believe is bad, and he is spiritually 'evolving' somewhat.
All it will take is someone or something to swing him one way or the other and make the choice for him. He is at a very malleable point in his life's path, and depending on who gets to him first gets the prize. However, OOC input will have to play a part in this as well, which is why I made this forum.
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So the conversation has boiled down to pretty much this as far as I can see:

Should I do what I want to and embrace Scarlet RP, or should I do what the RP community as a whole expects of me and not follow through with Scarlet RP?

The conflict going through my mind is very powerful...
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100 Human Priest
5350
To answer your dilemma a bit more directly than my earlier suggestion, why not take factors from both? The Scarlet Crusade wasn't made up of mustache-twirling villains who enjoyed the suffering. It was a gathering of zealots who truly believed that ~they~ and they alone were the righteous ones. While not exactly the most tolerant bunch, I guarantee that the majority thought of themselves as "the good guys." Just because the cause turned out to be a bust doesn't mean that their justifications for joining are complicit as well.

For instance, say there is a crusader who despises undead entirely, and wishes to see them all purged without exception. Just because the leaders of the Scarlet movement were corrupt and just as destructive as their proposed targets, does that mean Knight Joe has to suddenly reverse his world-view? Or could he just lament the circumstances and hold true to those values that led him to be a Scarlet in the first place, only condemning the cause itself and not the goal?

My money would be on the latter. It's possible that being used as a tool for a malicious cause would cause some introspection though, like perhaps not openly despising other races of the Alliance quite as much. The important bit is to make sure you use it in service of the character, no matter what. Whether he feels immense guilt at the atrocities he aided in or is just furious at being deceived, it has to be deeper than "Scarlet because Scarlet."
Edited by Kristavere on 1/4/2013 8:12 AM PST
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Caverns of Time: Culling of Stratholme.

Arthas' attitude = pretty much that of the Scarlet Crusade imo.

It wasnt simply choice beliefs but more of a terrified to the brink of insanity type thing
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100 Human Priest
5350
Caverns of Time: Culling of Stratholme.

Arthas' attitude = pretty much that of the Scarlet Crusade imo.

It wasnt simply choice beliefs but more of a terrified to the brink of insanity type thing


Fear is absolutely a major component to such a vigorous belief, but to label it as insanity robs it of any intellectual value. Irrational? Definitely. But not exactly lacking in logic like insanity would imply.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8245
As far as I could tell, the Scarlet weren't insane. Rather, they were quite good at being "rational" and "logical" about their ideals and were able to make the most horrid of acts be "reasonable" and "just". After all, the knights weren't stupid enough to believe some insane paladins, but were definitely in the mindset of believing someone who was possibly stronger and wiser than they were, regardless of how their mental state was. Their fear drove them to believe whatever they said as truth, even if it barely qualified as logical. As Krista said, it was pretty much made up of people who generally believed that this was the only way to get rid of the scourge, and unfortunately it went from bad to worse when the demon lord came into the picture to seek revenge, warping their ideals even further. Some may call their ideals insane, but they're not insane so much as rash and impractical and generally frowned upon for obvious reasons.

As far as continuing the Scarlet plight, I think it's definitely up to you on how you want to handle it. It really is a "enjoy yourself" kind of decision, and you've got to decide whether you want to deal with the trolls. Personally, I think you shouldn't be worried about what others think of you, considering you're paying for your own game time and can play however you want. Ignore and report anyone who gives you a hard time that borders harassment.
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90 Human Rogue
8580
A lot of good advice for you here. I can only really add a couple of things.

For me, I have a tendency to really dislike Scarlet RP. It clashes a lot with my basic nature, because on the surface it's so heavily racist. I've also gotten very soured on Scarlet RPers because I have met too many who were just really nasty people.

That said: It sounds like you are approaching it as a way to drive some pretty intense character development and that I can 100% get behind. An angle that seems to me like it would make for some fascinating character interaction might be for Vaallith to develop some friendships and then dealing with how everyone handles it as they discover his deeper sympathies. Some may react very superficially, but some might really develop a conflict over it. I know (for example), Ara is a very loyal friend. If she found out someone she had become friends with harbored Scarlet sympathies, it would really be a huge amount of inner conflict. Perhaps Vaallith has friends who would react similarly, creating a lot of story development?

So to answer your question:

Do what is going to make it the most meaningful for you.
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