My Ideas for Ret Changes

70 Draenei Paladin
12385
Some "small changes":

1. Being able to use Divine Protection while cc'd.

2. Hand of Freedom breaking stuns again (only after every 30-60s, to not make Clemency even better than it already is) and/or a new ability to break fears (could even be a new emancipate - with a certain cooldown; 30-45s maybe?).

3. Less "cast" time for Hammer of Wrath.

4. More damage on tier 90 talents. Considering their cooldowns are just ridiculous how ES hits for so low outside cds (Holy Prism could also generates HP - maintaining its damage/heal).

5. WoG and specially FoL should heal for way more. Healing 20k with FoL and 25k with WoG its just completely stupid to begin with, thanks to 30% buff to Battle Fatigue. FoL could just have its mana resource lowered. Spriests heals for way more with their flash heal which just costs 17k of mana (from a 300k mana pool; 5.9%), while our flash of light costs 22k (or almost 38%).

6. Having more symmetrical cds/uptimes in our abilities (a buff to them to prevent us losing 50% of its uptime just because someone popped a 'spam-able' defensive cd/general ccs is also welcome). Suggestion: 3min CDs for GoAK (since the 20% strenght in the end of the day will just be around of what the PvP trinket offers while having a 5x lower cooldown), 3min to AW which would last 30s (40 or 45 with SW) and ~30s to HA as well (nerf to 3min CD too). I'm not completely sure if this would make us OP, but it the HoF/Emancipate changes doesnt happen, its necessary to keep our buffs uptime in a good place, considering how visible we are with the red wings and a big bright sword on our hands.

7. Selfless Heal could cast a buff if used on a friendly target other than yourself and if used with 3 stacks. The buff could be a 10s heal over time that heals 2x what you healed on the target (which itself would be 2x what you would heal normally) on yourself. SS should be a normal shield again, like Mage' ice barrier, that would scale with strenght or AP for ret/prot. Since I could see everyone just using Eternal Flame after its buff in 5.2 (although it is needed).

8. Inquisition buff, 2x its uptime from HP (its just not fun/annoying to keep it up) and maybe even a bigger critic buff (15%?).

9. Lower the disadvantages from using Divine Shield and Hand of Protection. We are not in TBC anymore.

10. Makes some more passive RNG abilities for some dynamic changes in our rotations, only having art of war resetting Exo' cds its boring. Divine Purpose could be baseline (with a lower chance to proc ~10-15%). Mostly to help our sustained DPS and make the class more fun to play, considering how static our rotation is.


1. !!!!ABSOLUTELY!!!! Was just talking about this 2 days ago with a paladin friend.

2. I agree the fear issue has to be addressed and resolved, but I disagree that this is the way to go. Honestly it's too powerful.

3. !!!!ABSOLUTELY!!!! It is especially bad with female blood elfs - who wobble back and forth for nearly a full half second. I miss the days when it was instant. TRULY instant. The skill already has a projectile travel time, there is no need for the extra down time from 'cast animations'.

4. Rather see lower cooldown times instead of increased damage. Would give us more options. Also, as I mentioned in the other post to Karod, would be nice if Unbreakable Spirit worked in this way, but with a little more juice with the level 90 talents - as 1% on a 1 min cd is going to be relatively nothing. It would have to be upped to compensate. Perhaps 1% cd reduction per holy power spent. So 1hp = 1%, 2hp = 2%, and 3hp = 3%. Just on Prism/Light's Ham/Execution Sentence.

5. Agree with the points you are making. In all sincerity, I think FoL just need's it's mana cost significantly reduced, not the spell power increased. You can get some big crits already on others, especially with Selfless Healer, but because that buff isn't something we can spam, I think a reduced mana cost would be the way to go about this. It really is stupid that we can only cast what is really a minor healing spell on ourselves 2 times before we have to wait for mana as Ret.

6. Disagree with GoAK being reduced. Others with pet procs, which don't have a buff to the player, have similar cd times. Sure they get more pets, but they dn't get that rocking buff we get. I'd rather see more valid glyph choices that open our options. Like another AV glyph that reduces the cd time while nerfing the duration of it or damage. Stuff like that. Let's face it, our glyphs suck. I look at other class's selections, and they get all kinds of cool glyph options. Ours... not even close.

7. It already crits. Again, just need the cost of FoL reduced. This combined with your previous suggestion would make our 'hybrid' heals overpowered again. It's clear they don't want us having substantial healing contributions to the point of being another healer. SS being a normal shield? Shrug, not sure what that would solve or do. I'd rather see Harsh Words work with Eternal Flame.

8. Increased duration would be nice. Integration into all skills and effectively removed as a skill, would be better. Maintaining a damage buff is stupid. I don't know of any class other then Ret that has to do that. Prot hate it so much, they removed it from their selection. So why'd Ret get stuck with it? Hell, I'd rather see it work like Divine Purpose but instead of proc'n on Holy Power using skills, it has a chance to proc on skills that GENERATE Holy Power.

9. Nnnnnnnnnnnuuuuuuuuu. Very much disagree. Forbearance was already reduced some time ago from 2 mins to 1 min. These skills don't need more love. Remember, if we can get FoL's mana cost reduced significantly, we could HoP ourselves and then FoL ourselves up to a reasonable health level vs melee. Btw, Glyph Harsh words and go with Divine Purpose. You can stand there and proc up in heals on yourself or dps on a melee with impunity already.

10. I really dunno why they made DP a talented skill tbh. I used to be baseline. I guess because they couldn't think of another talent to put in that tier. Making DP baseline... honestly... would be a massive increase in Ret DPS. I'm not sure that would be wise to do, as we'd just end up getting nerfed back down. Instead, and again, look at Unbreakable Spirit and wonder why it doesn't affect offensive abilities, or why Inquisition doesn't work like DP as I mentioned earlier. Those types of things put in together, could up us in a respectable way without making us godlike OP.
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90 Human Paladin
5685
12/30/2012 03:23 PMPosted by Angelista
We do hit like pillows without cool downs lolol.


I'd let a female pally hit me with pillows. She'd have to be wearing lingerie and forgo the 'light' and all that though.
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10 Blood Elf Paladin
0
01/08/2013 09:34 AMPosted by Icandygriz
I think the main issue with Inquisition being 1 minute is that you would have Feral Kitties and Rogues whining how they have to spend 5 CP to have a 40 sec duration while we only spend 3 HoPo to get a minute buff. While I personally would love the QoL change even in PvE perspective (and definitely in PvP), I think Rogues and Kitties would also have to be buffed with theirs accordingly. That's just my opinion, though.


Rouges have an ability that resets their buff for them. Idk about kitties, i imagine they have one as well.

That being the case i think a 1min inq is reasonable.

Only Assassination has the capability of refreshing their SnD, and I don't think anyone seriously PvPs as Assassination.

Feral Kitties have a glyph that allows them to have their buff when no combo points are up for a duration of 12 seconds. While this may seem awesome, they still will likely spend combo points later just to help keep up the buff. Otherwise, it would make the rotation clunky as hell (and it still has the Energy cost, to boot).

Inquisition's only real cost is our HoPo. While HoPo is a main form of our offense and defense, it isn't very difficult to really create with Judgment and Exorcism being ranged (most of the time unless you glyph it, which is only good in niche situations).
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70 Draenei Paladin
12385
Something I would like to see I don't see others mentioning:

- a NEW Templar's Verdict glyph that takes it off the GCD in addition to the one that already exists.
Edited by Deathpony on 1/8/2013 10:06 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7310
12/30/2012 12:11 PMPosted by Sin
Our issue in PvP lies in our susceptibility to CC and our slightly underpar offheals. Slightly buff WoG and FoL and allow us to hard cast a couple more FoL's before we go oom should do the trick. Increasing our burst capacity is not the right answer.


We've been told 25-50% of our PvP power will benefit our heals in 5.2, we shall see if that is enough. Ghostcrawler even nerfed selfless healer, to buff flash of lights base heal by 50% and even buffed sacred shield.

However, buffing flash of light is still gimped with the fact that it takes nearly 15-18 seconds seconds to build up a 3 stack of selfless healer.

Simple fix, is make selfless healer only need 2 stacks, and increase the healing by 40/80%
and make the stacks like heating up and count as 1 buff once you get both stacks.
(In ghostcrawlers buff to baseline flash for rets, and nerf to selfless healer, he has selfless healer stack like this. 20%/40%/60% and flash of lights baseline is 50%)

Also, our issue also in pvp comes from the fact that our gap closer is virtually worthless in this world of passive snares effects that are applied cositently. We freedom to judge to get LAotL(Long Arm of the Law) up our freedom's dispelled virtually instantly, we emancipate to judge to get LAotL up to get on our target, we're snared/ rooted. Oour damage and gap closer is the worst of all melee spec's on top of our susceptibility to CC. Ret's are in a basic arena match 50% of the time eating all CC and consistently slowed.
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90 Tauren Paladin
19560
all these walls of text im too lazy to read since most of it is crying over a spec that is easy to play and fun too.

want more sustaining dps? Make DP baseline, give us a new talent(much like they did with rogue) Now, inb4 tons of bads saying this is a bad idea because they can't handle a proc :D
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90 Human Paladin
9770
Honestly, I'd be thrilled if we just got something like a
*4pc bonus: Your Templar's Verdict now has a chance on hit to deal 40% of its damage over 4seconds (The chance is increased to 100% when hitting a target that is snared/stunned)*

If its a 4pc, it wouldnt affect PvE, and it would help out our consistant damage quite nicely
(In full offence mode, you pump out a TV once every 5s, find it usually hits for about 40k, giving us a *chance* at a 16k dot

With cds up we would be overriding the dot with how many TV we were putting out from increased HP gen rate

If it had 100% chance to proc on stunned targets, it would make our non-cd damage alot more reliable when you need to put out hard dmg

But, its only a dream....
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