Active Mana Regen.

90 Troll Druid
5950
So I was doing my normal Random Dungeon Spam, trying to gear up and all that. When I came up with a crazy idea for a new healing system. Now I'm aware that it'd be way too difficult to implement this in the current expansion, but it could be some food for thought for the next one.

Okay so Blizzard wants healers to manage their mana right? Right. And while the tools they've given to healers to help with this mana management work(Mostly.). I think they could take it a step further.

The devs probably get tired of hearing about healers struggling with mana problems so why not say "Screw it, you think you can do better at solving mana problems? fine!" And give the healers the tools to actively regen mana themselves? That's right I'm thinking about an active mana regen system.

Here's how it works in my head:

-Mana pool for all healers stays at a fixed amount. Let's say at 100.
-Combat Regen removed(Wait don't kill me yet! I can explain!)
-As the healer starts using their healing spells, the 100 mana works it's way to 0.
-To restore mana, the healer uses their efficient heal(Nourish/Healing Wave/Heal etc.)

Let me give an example, going to use Resto Druid abilities because that's a class I've been playing the most this expansion:

-Nourish restores 5 mana.
-Regrowth costs 10 mana.
-Healing Touch costs 9 mana.
-Wild Growth costs 8 mana.
-Rejuv costs 3 mana.
-Swiftmend costs 2 mana.
-Lifebloom costs 1 mana.

Alright those are just rough costs I got rolling around in my head. So to put this system into practice, let's say the Resto Druid is getting ready for the first pull of a dungeon. He throws a 3-stack of Lifebloom on the tank, 3 casts, 3 mana, the druid is now down to 97 mana.

Tank pulls and does his thing, Resto druid throws a rejuv on the tank to buffer the incoming damage, now down to 94 mana. The damage is kind of low, so the druid throws a nourish on the tank, druid is now back up to 99 mana.

Oh snap! a ranged dps pulled an add! Tank picks it up like a champ, but now the incoming damage is greater. The Resto druid uses a Healing Touch and refreshes rejuv followed by a swiftmend, he's now down to 85 mana.

One of the dps decides he likes standing in fire, it keeps him all warm and fuzzy! Unfortunately it's causing his health to drop very rapidly. The Resto Druid being the nice guy he is decides to throw him a Regrowth, 75 mana. Dps finally musters the brain power to determine the fire is bad and moves, but he is at halfish health so the Resto Druid tosses him a rejuv, 72 mana.

At this point everyone in the group is taking damage, so the wise Resto Druid does a wild growth followed by 2 more rejuvs to make his nourishes go faster. He is now down to 58 mana. Thankfully his efforts are not in vain as the group damage begins to stabilize.

With the group relatively healthy, the Resto Druid takes advantage of his faster nourishes with 3 rejuvs up and manages to successfully cast 4 nourishes, he's now back up to 78 mana. The group begins mopping up the trash pack and the druid takes this time to throw around some nourishes to get his mana back up to full.

Definitely different isn't it? Mana kind of becomes like a blue rage bar.

Now I'm aware it's not perfect, there are flaws in this system and I'm sure the costs of spells and junk would need tuning. With some proper tweaking however, I believe it would be an entertaining spin on healing.

more in the next post.
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90 Troll Druid
5950
Here are some problems I foresee:

-Spirit rendered useless
-Every Healer trying to stack haste, so that they can cast their efficient heal faster for more regen.

-Costs of spells relative to regen might be off.
-Regen cooldowns like Innervate and Mana Tide needing to be reworked.
-If regen is tuned to be too powerful, could see a return to spamming fast inefficient heals(Love ya WotLK, but I hated blinking and seeing someone die.)

-PvP healing might need some tweaking.

With this system Dungeons and Raids would definitely need to be tweaked as well. Right now with the amount of damage hitting people in raids it's very difficult to find time to get out some casts of Nourish and the other healer classes' equivalent to it. They would have to have 'lulls' in the incoming damage to allow healers time to use their efficient heals to restore mana.

You might be asking, where the heck are you going with this?

Well, I think it would be an interesting healing system. My intention with this is that a skilled healer should be able to keep his mana at healthy levels (Above half.) Most of the time during an encounter, using big heals mixed in with small efficient heals. Lesser skilled healers might find themselves spamming their flash heals and running oom, forcing them to spam their weak efficient heals a few times to get their mana back up to where they can use their more useful ones. With this a healer doesn't have to feel helpless if he runs oom. He just feels weak for a critical amount of time while he spams his small castable heal to restore his mana.

Anyways that's enough brainstorming from me, if nothing else it is something to think about.

TLDR Version: Changing Healer mana to be like a blue rage bar and allowing the healer's small efficient heal(Nourish and the like) to restore a small amount each cast.
Edited by Vizard on 12/30/2012 5:43 AM PST
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86 Night Elf Priest
2180
I think that is a very imaginative and interesting idea. I am intrigued and would definitely like to try the system out. Kudos!
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90 Blood Elf Mage
HC
9585
I'd like to see Blizzard go towards active regen, but I see it more in the sense of mana cds being on a lower cd, having a resource similar to how chi and mana tea works that promotes good play. A few examples could be maintaining riptide, lifebloom, PW:S or penance, not sure for holy priests.

Obviously the idea would need a lot of love and its purely a rough idea. In turn you could make personal mana cds be used more proactively and on a shorter cd, while restoring less mana. The idea is by no means perfect, but it could promote interesting play along with separating the out the great healers from the mediocre ones.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
I'd like to see Blizzard go towards active regen, but I see it more in the sense of mana cds being on a lower cd, having a resource similar to how chi and mana tea works that promotes good play. A few examples could be maintaining riptide, lifebloom, PW:S or penance, not sure for holy priests.

Obviously the idea would need a lot of love and its purely a rough idea. In turn you could make personal mana cds be used more proactively and on a shorter cd, while restoring less mana. The idea is by no means perfect, but it could promote interesting play along with separating the out the great healers from the mediocre ones.


I would love to have shadowfiend be a permanent pet... or close to it, with small gains all the time, instead of bigger gains 1/4 of the time.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
HC
9585
12/29/2012 10:43 PMPosted by Keirisonis
I would love to have shadowfiend be a permanent pet... or close to it, with small gains all the time, instead of bigger gains 1/4 of the time.


obviously there are major issues with implementing something like it, but it would make healing a lot more interactive and fun, at least for me. It's something I'd like GC to see and possibly comment on, because Blizzard has stated they want healer mana to be an active thing, but the way they have cds work its still very much hit it and leave it. Honestly, I felt AA giving mana regen back was the right way to go with it for priests (obviously you'd have to tie it to heals as well as smite healing).

Ideally for me I'd like to see it promote good play, instead of fundamentally change how classes play/heal.
Edited by Eikö on 12/29/2012 10:48 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8360
So I was doing my normal Random Dungeon Spam, trying to gear up and all that. When I came up with a crazy idea for a new healing system. Now I'm aware that it'd be way too difficult to implement this in the current expansion, but it could be some food for thought for the next one.

Okay so Blizzard wants healers to manage their mana right? Right. And while the tools they've given to healers to help with this mana management work(Mostly.). I think they could take it a step further.

The devs probably get tired of hearing about healers struggling with mana problems so why not say "Screw it, you think you can do better at solving mana problems? fine!" And give the healers the tools to actively regen mana themselves? That's right I'm thinking about an active mana regen system.

Here's how it works in my head:

-Mana pool for all healers stays at a fixed amount. Let's say at 100.
-Combat Regen removed(Wait don't kill me yet! I can explain!)
-As the healer starts using their healing spells, the 100 mana works it's way to 0.
-To restore mana, the healer uses their efficient heal(Nourish/Healing Wave/Heal etc.)

Let me give an example, going to use Resto Druid abilities because that's a class I've been playing the most this expansion:

-Nourish restores 5 mana.
-Regrowth costs 10 mana.
-Healing Touch costs 9 mana.
-Wild Growth costs 8 mana.
-Rejuv costs 3 mana.
-Swiftmend costs 2 mana.
-Lifebloom costs 1 mana.

Alright those are just rough costs I got rolling around in my head. So to put this system into practice, let's say the Resto Druid is getting ready for the first pull of a dungeon. He throws a 3-stack of Lifebloom on the tank, 3 casts, 3 mana, the druid is now down to 97 mana.

Tank pulls and does his thing, Resto druid throws a rejuv on the tank to buffer the incoming damage, now down to 94 mana. The damage is kind of low, so the druid throws a nourish on the tank, druid is now back up to 99 mana.

Oh snap! a ranged dps pulled an add! Tank picks it up like a champ, but now the incoming damage is greater. The Resto druid uses a Healing Touch and refreshes rejuv followed by a swiftmend, he's now down to 85 mana.

One of the dps decides he likes standing in fire, it keeps him all warm and fuzzy! Unfortunately it's causing his health to drop very rapidly. The Resto Druid being the nice guy he is decides to throw him a Regrowth, 75 mana. Dps finally musters the brain power to determine the fire is bad and moves, but he is at halfish health so the Resto Druid tosses him a rejuv, 72 mana.

At this point everyone in the group is taking damage, so the wise Resto Druid does a wild growth followed by 2 more rejuvs to make his nourishes go faster. He is now down to 58 mana. Thankfully his efforts are not in vain as the group damage begins to stabilize.

With the group relatively healthy, the Resto Druid takes advantage of his faster nourishes with 3 rejuvs up and manages to successfully cast 4 nourishes, he's now back up to 78 mana. The group begins mopping up the trash pack and the druid takes this time to throw around some nourishes to get his mana back up to full.

Definitely different isn't it? Mana kind of becomes like a blue rage bar.

Now I'm aware it's not perfect, there are flaws in this system and I'm sure the costs of spells and junk would need tuning. With some proper tweaking however, I believe it would be an entertaining spin on healing.

more in the next post.

Will never work and the raid will die the moment their is a period of high damage just long enough to go for 3-5 seconds longer than your inneficient heals can manage.
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90 Gnome Priest
11895
12/29/2012 11:00 PMPosted by Imgandiloljk
Will never work and the raid will die the moment their is a period of high damage just long enough to go for 3-5 seconds longer than your inneficient heals can manage.

I think you missed the point. OP wasn't suggesting this for only Resto Druids, he was using Resto Druids (a class I assume he understands better than others) as an example of what an active regen system might be like. His intent, I am reasonably sure, was that this would happen for all healers and Blizzard would balance around that if it were implemented.

Personally, I'm not entirely sure if Healers need an active regen model. The question you need to answer is what would the players and the designers stand to gain from such a system? What's more fun or more easily balanced about this system than the system we have now?
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
I want to see a mechanic that increases mana regen from spirit when below a % of mana.

It probably won't ever happen but i like the idea of balancing pooling mana for a big burst of healing and keeping your mana below that percentage in order to get the most spells out for the entire battle.
Edited by Keirisonis on 12/29/2012 11:55 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
HC
9585
12/29/2012 11:47 PMPosted by Keirisonis
It probably won't ever happen but i like the idea of balancing pooling mana for a big burst of healing and keeping your mana below that percentage in order to get the most spells out for the entire battle.


Seems like an odd design for a healer. More specifically it almost feels like an arcane mage.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
12/30/2012 01:16 AMPosted by Eikö
It probably won't ever happen but i like the idea of balancing pooling mana for a big burst of healing and keeping your mana below that percentage in order to get the most spells out for the entire battle.


Seems like an odd design for a healer. More specifically it almost feels like an arcane mage.


So's meleeing for healing. Or dps converting to healing in general. Of course, it would definitely have to have a more dynamic rotation compared to an arcane mage but it seems like it could be very fun.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
12580
Active regen was something I originally thought we were going to get for this expansion, and was personally hoping for, but Blizzard backed off of it for some reason.

It might be balance, it might be fun factor, and it might be the perception that healers of *lower caliber* might be pushed out of healing entirely.

They also backed off from blunting the ridiculous HP pool/dps/healing growths from the last two expansions, presumably out of fear of the *big number syndrome* backlash.

Sadly, I think these fears are probably legitimate, and as such, Blizzard probably made the right decisions.

Riôt
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90 Troll Druid
5950
I think you missed the point. OP wasn't suggesting this for only Resto Druids, he was using Resto Druids (a class I assume he understands better than others) as an example of what an active regen system might be like. His intent, I am reasonably sure, was that this would happen for all healers and Blizzard would balance around that if it were implemented.


Yeah that's what I was getting at.

As for what the players would gain? I'm hoping it would be a more interactive and fun healing system. Not sure if it would be easier to design or a nightmare for Blizzard though.

The other ideas being thrown around on this thread are interesting as well.
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90 Worgen Druid
6425
What the OP is suggesting is a system similar to that of Diablo III, where you have resource-builders and resource-spenders.

I like how Diablo III manages resource regen and I would not mind seeing it in WoW.

WoW resource-regen is kinda of boring. You just have to stack spirit and use one or two CDs on Cooldown. Takes near 0 skill and is not fun.
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
I'd like to see Blizzard go towards active regen, but I see it more in the sense of mana cds being on a lower cd, having a resource similar to how chi and mana tea works that promotes good play. A few examples could be maintaining riptide, lifebloom, PW:S or penance, not sure for holy priests.

Obviously the idea would need a lot of love and its purely a rough idea. In turn you could make personal mana cds be used more proactively and on a shorter cd, while restoring less mana. The idea is by no means perfect, but it could promote interesting play along with separating the out the great healers from the mediocre ones.


I would love to have shadowfiend be a permanent pet... or close to it, with small gains all the time, instead of bigger gains 1/4 of the time.


You would like that until you got a fight where the pet wasn't able to attack for large portions of the fight (things like air phase on Atramedes and transition phases on Mimiron). Then, as soon as it happened, there would be nothing but QQ about how it isn't fair that priest regen is tied to a pet that is unreliable, etc.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
HC
9585
You would like that until you got a fight where the pet wasn't able to attack for large portions of the fight (things like air phase on Atramedes and transition phases on Mimiron). Then, as soon as it happened, there would be nothing but QQ about how it isn't fair that priest regen is tied to a pet that is unreliable, etc.


I think priest active regen would have to be tied in Hymn of Hope (it would have to be reworked).

So's meleeing for healing. Or dps converting to healing in general. Of course, it would definitely have to have a more dynamic rotation compared to an arcane mage but it seems like it could be very fun.


Fair point.
Edited by Eikö on 12/30/2012 6:35 AM PST
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I kinda like your idea, OP, though raid design would have to change, since a lot of fights just require doing a whole ton of healing without much time to cast your efficient heal.

I'd still like to see a more active mana regen for most classes (I think Monks are ok, Mana Tea is interesting). The problem is especially bad for Holy Priests, since all we have is Shadowfiend and Hymn of Hope (and PW:Solace if you spec into it). We don't even get better passive regen than other specs like we used to, we get the same 50% of spirit that everyone else gets.

Back in Cataclysm Beta, Archangel returned a nice bit of mana. The tooltip said 15% of max mana for healers, but it was actually bugged (Shadow was supposed to get 25% and healers 15%, but it was switched). Speccing into Archangel and being able to regen mana by smiting and popping a 5 stacked Archangel on cooldown was the most fun I've had on my Holy Priest, even if it was only a few weeks. When they fixed the bug, rather than bring healers back down to 15%, it was massively nerfed to 5%, making it worthless for mana regen. But I really enjoyed the active mana regen.

Of course, there's a fine line between fun active mana regen and the Telluric Currents fiasco of Cataclysm, but right now, mana regen feels too passive for me for most specs.
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90 Troll Druid
5950
I kinda like your idea, OP, though raid design would have to change, since a lot of fights just require doing a whole ton of healing without much time to cast your efficient heal.

I'd still like to see a more active mana regen for most classes (I think Monks are ok, Mana Tea is interesting). The problem is especially bad for Holy Priests, since all we have is Shadowfiend and Hymn of Hope (and PW:Solace if you spec into it). We don't even get better passive regen than other specs like we used to, we get the same 50% of spirit that everyone else gets.

Back in Cataclysm Beta, Archangel returned a nice bit of mana. The tooltip said 15% of max mana for healers, but it was actually bugged (Shadow was supposed to get 25% and healers 15%, but it was switched). Speccing into Archangel and being able to regen mana by smiting and popping a 5 stacked Archangel on cooldown was the most fun I've had on my Holy Priest, even if it was only a few weeks. When they fixed the bug, rather than bring healers back down to 15%, it was massively nerfed to 5%, making it worthless for mana regen. But I really enjoyed the active mana regen.

Of course, there's a fine line between fun active mana regen and the Telluric Currents fiasco of Cataclysm, but right now, mana regen feels too passive for me for most specs.


Oh yeah raid design would definitely have to change, as it is now you really don't have time to cast your efficient heal. Also regening mana through a dps spell could be another way to go if a healer wants to take a more aggressive approach.

If properly balanced it has potential. I myself liked how my talent "Dream of Cenarius" which would boost my next healing spell whenever I did a wrath on a target. Working something like that into an active mana regen system could be pretty fun.
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90 Tauren Paladin
12145
I want to see a mechanic that increases mana regen from spirit when below a % of mana.

It probably won't ever happen but i like the idea of balancing pooling mana for a big burst of healing and keeping your mana below that percentage in order to get the most spells out for the entire battle.

They have something like that. It's called Jade Spirit; the weapon enchant.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
I want to see a mechanic that increases mana regen from spirit when below a % of mana.

It probably won't ever happen but i like the idea of balancing pooling mana for a big burst of healing and keeping your mana below that percentage in order to get the most spells out for the entire battle.

They have something like that. It's called Jade Spirit; the weapon enchant.


Jade spirit has to proc when you've gone under 25% mana for that to give any benefit. Meaning for 80-90% of the battle (depending on your mana efficiency and the type of battle) you get nothing out of the spirit portion.
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