Too much Focus on Disc while Holy Rots

90 Pandaren Priest
10260
Why is it that Disc has been hot fixed, and now adjusted further in 5.2 when Holy has not even been touched yet? I 100% agree disc is overpowered at the moment, but I also think that priests are being forced into speccing disc because holy mana regen remains so terrible. Holy priests are down there with Resto druids in both output and regen but no one seems to mention it because disc is so overpowered. I don’t even want to be playing disc but I’m forced to due to holy being so awful atm.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
11125
Actually the PoH and PoM buffs applied to us as well. I love all specs of priest equally but I have shoved doing disc onto someone else atm so I can be either holy, shadow, or sitting.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
10185
Holy can compete but its so.....lackluster compared to disc. Absorbs will always trump the heals dished out by holy. That plus chakra sucks to play with, GS is bugged and holy's regen capabilities are lacking. I think holy needs to be reworked because as much as I love holy, I would not go back to it because disc provides so much more.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Monk
10685
One of our priests goes Holy rather often and it's not only good it's still better than almost all of the other healing specs in the game. It's just not as good as Disc on most fights but unless we're doing progression content it doesn't matter which way they spec.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Shaman
15810
Holy is rotting? News to me. The only reason people don't spec holy is because disc is bringing more to fights than holy, but NOT because holy is weak in regen or output.

Spirit shell usually can reach every single big hit type of scenario this tier, which is unmatched both by the other healing classes as well as holy. Does this make the other healers weak (or holy for that matter)? DEFINITELY not.

The difference is that other healing classes don't have an alternative healing spec (as opposed to priests) and so you will see the majority of priests who are doing hard heroic content spec discipline just because it brings more. Raidbots (which I don't know why you would use for healers (not saying you do, but in case you do)) cannot even track this correctly, again because you will see so few of the less useful specs being brought in.This is always going to be the case when you have two specs who bring similar things to a raid.

In terms of output and regen holy is fine (disc might be too much with rapture, don't use them as a comparison). In terms of useful cooldowns, holy brings pretty much just what the other healing classes bring as well (with the possible exception of shaman, but then again holy fills niches that shaman does not). Its just that discipline's spirit shell works PERFECTLY this tier for most encounters. Though its unlikely such scenarios would stop completely in subsequent tiers, just lowering those scenarios in some encounters by quite a bit and rapture, the decision to always be disc won't be there.

Just look at this tier - H Vizier - FnV phase 2 spirit shell lines up perfectly there with the exception of one.

H blade lord - Unseen strike is a 1 minute cooldown.

H garalon - okay a 40 second crush means it won't be up every time, so not a great example

H wind lord - iirc RoB is a 50 sec cd and since spirit shell lasts for a long time, you can hit every single one pretty much every time.

amber - spirit shell is great for the debuff in phase 3 that he puts out (and absorbs in general). SS good for the stomps that melee may get hit by.

Empress - too obvious

Le shi - obvious, but sometimes difficult

tsulong, protectors - ss is useful as a throughput cooldown

h sha - assuming it'll be good here...

Actually in MV, same trends kind of follow. There may not be many big hits in the heroic modes, but there are frequent lulls in damage followed by some amount of damage (H kings, H elegon (+ the damage boost) exemplify this), thus discipline will usually edge out in terms of usefulness there too .

My point being, as long as an instance like HoF isn't designed again where its so one-sided between the two specs, you won't see it being one-sided. it's not from holy being too weak. its from encounter design, rapture being too high, and (IMO) DA sometimes...

edit - that and if you are just looking at meters or whatever (which you really shouldn't in this case), discipline will always shine since absorbs are going to count first.

That isn't to say holy doesn't have issues.

I think chakra needs to go. It's a very silly mechanic and is not something I particularity used to like pre mop (haven't tried my priest since mop hit). I think many QoL changes will benefit holy, but not straight up regen or throughput issues.
Edited by Gardiff on 1/1/2013 2:25 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
17105
It's because Holy is performing within 5% of Paladins, Shaman, Monks and Druids. In fact, it actually appears to be the 2nd strongest healing spec in the game currently on 25 man and the 3rd strongest spec on 10 man.

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall/25H/all/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10H/all/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111

If Holy regen is such a significant issue, it definitely is not showing in the actual results. On top of that, with Disc being completely OP (20-25% stronger than every other spec), the majority of skilled priests are probably playing Disc even if they prefer Holy. That means that if anything, these numbers are reflective of a lower player skill base than that of the other classes, and Holy may actually be stronger than they suggest.

They haven't been doing anything with Holy, because there is absolutely 0 evidence there is a problem with that spec. It looks bad in comparison to Disc, but guess what - so does every other healing spec in the game currently. Disc will still be 10-15% ahead of everyone else even with the announced 5.2 changes. There is no way they can buff Holy to that level when it's already at the same level as everyone else. Priests do have the choice of what spec to play unlike every other healing class.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9515
Holy's a perfectly fine spec with no major issues. True, it doesn't meter !@#$% as well as Disc when you're overhealing content, but it's fine. It has fabulous cooldowns and excellent controlled, predictable, bursty healing. Oh, and it does great damage. It really doesn't need tweaking beyond the spillover from Disc.

The spec that's being neglected right now is resto (druid).
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Priest
12545
01/01/2013 02:11 PMPosted by Gardiff
I think chakra needs to go. It's a very silly mechanic and is not something I particularity used to like pre mop (haven't tried my priest since mop hit). I think many QoL changes will benefit holy, but not straight up regen or throughput issues.


While I'm not a fan of Chakra, I think most of the difficulties with it come from how players conceptualize it.

Look at Discipline and Archangel/Spirit Shell. These provide boosts on par with the healing Chakras. But because you don't have to choose to end them in favor of some other mechanic, people look at them as 'healing boosts'. In contrast, players look at the Chakra as penalties. They don't think about the fact that they're now getting a massive boost to PoH/ProM/CoH - they think about the massive boost to FH/GH/Renew that they're losing.

But think about it. Imagine the Chakras were the exact same thing except they were standard cooldown burst abilities. So you could activate "Chakra: Serenity" and it would stay around for 30 sec, and then go away. They'd be the conceptually the same as those Discipline cooldowns.
Reply Quote
100 Tauren Shaman
HC
17885
The spec that's being neglected right now is resto (druid).


I disagree, outside of raid size disparity which other healers also face and mushrooms they're perfectly viable/wanted. There is no spec being neglected :p.

There is no way to make all healers in perfect synchronized representations of each other unless we all had 1 heal and it healed for the same amongst all specs. Honestly this is the closest in healer balance I've seen in a very very very long time outside of disc.
Edited by Sensations on 1/1/2013 7:47 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
17270
Burst requires either stacked raidwalls (PW:B) or pre-shielding (SSh) or both. Physical burst can only be prevented by Disc and Spirit Link totem/Shaman.

You can easily be holy in a 25 man setting, if you already have 2 disc priests (:
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
The issue is that shields>raw healing in nearly all circumstances (excluding completely random aoe burst on 3 people at a time or random single target burst damage we can't predict whatsoever). So even if holy were significantly stronger in throughput than disc, people would still bring the disc priest for progression. It's the sad truth.

The only way to make holy more desirable than disc is to neuter disc's ability to do anything. That's just not fair to the class as a whole.

That also skews raidbots and worldoflogs because well... ya can't parse something that isn't there.

But everyone else has already pretty much said this.
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
8850
BUT BUT BUT MY CLASS ISNT DAT STRONG PLZ BUFF IT TO WERE I CAN BEET OTHR HEALRZ CUZ I SUK
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Spirit shell needs to go/be redesigned, it's too good

Removing POH from it would already go a long way


Someone's bitter...
Reply Quote
01/04/2013 10:29 AMPosted by Tiriél
Someone's bitter...


^^

But to contribute to the thread, if you are having a problem doing well with Holy, it's a L2P issue. Sorry. Holy has received buffs as well, so to claim otherwise is a bit silly.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/04/2013 10:34 AMPosted by Morenn
Someone's bitter...


^^

But to contribute to the thread, if you are having a problem doing well with Holy, it's a L2P issue. Sorry. Holy has received buffs as well, so to claim otherwise is a bit silly.


And it is true that Holy has a playstyle that may not be right for everyone. I know that I prefer Disc, and pretty much always have since it first became viable in Wrath. Holy is okay, but I don't enjoy it as much.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
8830
Spirit shell needs to go/be redesigned, it's too good

Removing POH from it would already go a long way


Someone's bitter...


Don't know why I'd be, my main is a warlock and this my first alt going to 90 in this expansion

edit:
Spirit shell is too good, a single spell negates almost a full tier of boss abilities, I don't think it was intended to be like this, they're nerfing it, but I'd rather have it reworked r removed along with a buff to PW:Shield to fill part of the gap left behind
Edited by Heker on 1/4/2013 11:04 AM PST
Reply Quote
Don't know why I'd be, my main is a warlock and this my first alt going to 90 in this expansion

edit:
Spirit shell is too good, a single spell negates almost a full tier of boss abilities, I don't think it was intended to be like this, they're nerfing it, but I'd rather have it reworked r removed along with a buff to PW:Shield to fill part of the gap left behind


We've been bubble bots before. We are not going back there again.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Don't know why I'd be, my main is a warlock and this my first alt going to 90 in this expansion

edit:
Spirit shell is too good, a single spell negates almost a full tier of boss abilities, I don't think it was intended to be like this, they're nerfing it, but I'd rather have it reworked r removed along with a buff to PW:Shield to fill part of the gap left behind


Tragically for you, GC seems to disagree and wants SS to remain a part of our arsenal.

Also, I'll be damned if the spec goes back to bubble bots from Wrath. Please, play your Warlock more and stay out of Priest things.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
8830
Don't know why I'd be, my main is a warlock and this my first alt going to 90 in this expansion

edit:
Spirit shell is too good, a single spell negates almost a full tier of boss abilities, I don't think it was intended to be like this, they're nerfing it, but I'd rather have it reworked r removed along with a buff to PW:Shield to fill part of the gap left behind


Tragically for you, GC seems to disagree and wants SS to remain a part of our arsenal.

Also, I'll be damned if the spec goes back to bubble bots from Wrath. Please, play your Warlock more and stay out of Priest things.


GC also agrees it's too good and is nerfing it.

A cd on POH while SS is active could work
Lower the shield limit
The shield no longer stacking up but with mastery working again

Plenty of options, no need for the bubble bot, I played priest in wrath, I know how it was.

Why is everyone so aggressive? just trying to have a reasonable discussion.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]