Experienced paladins read this please

90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
Alright, I'd like to ask your opinion on something.

Glyph of illumination, worth it or not? If so, what level of crit should i shoot for?

Also, what's your opinion on haste versus crit after stacking mastery?

I've started working on my pally alt and i just want to know what will work best for him. I know the class moderately well but those are the big spots where i can't see a clear winner. Any suggestions?
Edited by Keirisonis on 12/20/2012 8:03 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7380
This is the paladin in question, for those who're wondering. (don't look at my chest, hands or legs...)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8850
Not sure if I'm 1337 enough.

Glyph if Illumination is generally a bad idea however there are ways to make it work.

Try to get spirit on every piece of gear, that way you only have at most one bad stat.
Edited by Saih on 12/20/2012 7:58 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7380
Just wanted people who weren't 0/0 in all lfrs rocking 429 gear telling me what to do. ;P
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90 Goblin Priest
12840
Interesting strategy; asking for help from people by first insulting them.

I for one am keen to see how it plays out....
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7380
Interesting strategy; asking for help from people by first insulting them.

I for one am keen to see how it plays out....


Eh? the 0/0 thing wasn't aimed at anybody. I just don't like people who have no experience of any kind giving advice. It's like a man fresh out of high school trying to do brain surgery because he took a biology class in 10th grade.

Should prob change elitist to experienced >.>
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90 Tauren Paladin
11935
last time I checked Glyph of illumination only was beneficial for healing if spirit < 5100. Also haste is amazing for Eternal flame which I highly recommend in conjunction with Divine Purpose. I've healed the first boss in HoF with poor pvp gear, just keep in mind that spirit spirit spirit is going to be great. Also one of the Old holy paladin builds was a haste/spirit build. Also something to consider is who are you healing with and what are that classes strengths / weaknesses. You might want to change your build to compliment the other healer, for info on different types of build visit Icy-veins.com. It is seriously one of the best pve guides out there.
My opinion would be to steer away from crit and go haste.

My glyph choices would vary from fight to fight but Glyph of Divine Plea, Divinity and Protector of the Innocent are great neutral choice. might choose glyph of Divine protection if there is a lot of physical damage coming out
Edited by Davideus on 12/20/2012 8:17 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10595
Glyph of Illumination is useless unless you have the PvE 4pc set bonus. With the 4pc set, it is better until ~13000 spirit, but that is based around 12 shocks per minute, practically using it on CD. The math based on the 4 set can be found here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AovDZYcya2YudG84MlIyVkVIMTd6ZzBUcllXNzkxMUE#gid=0

The math without the 4pc set bonus can be found here:

http://joeego.wordpress.com/2012/07/20/theorycraft-paladins-options/

It is only viable in this case until ~5100 spirit, which you should be wayyy over.

Stacking haste after mastery is still the way to go, but you probably won't be running into any situations where it would matter, unless you run into a crit/haste ring or something like that.
Edited by Hainiryuun on 12/20/2012 9:15 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7380
Thank you to both of you, i was leaning towards haste but... EVERY PIECE OF HOLY PALLY GEAR HAS CRIT ON IT D: like, seriously. everything that drops for me is crit. oh well.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8135
You should stack spirit and then mastery in that order , illuminated healing will always be your #1 heal on the recounts , it's too good to pass it for haste , hope it helps.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
12/20/2012 09:49 PMPosted by Tribaz
You should stack spirit and then mastery in that order , illuminated healing will always be your #1 heal on the recounts , it's too good to pass it for haste , hope it helps.


Oh yes, mastery/spirit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything. I just wanted to know what to go with for those extra points i can't get more mastery from. even with eternal flame it's still too good to pass up.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
Glyph of illumination, worth it or not? If so, what level of crit should i shoot for?

Also, what's your opinion on haste versus crit after stacking mastery?


IMO its not worth it. It isn't that the glyph is particularly bad, there are occasions to use it, however, there are just better options for you. With the gear level you are at right now, you really aren't going to see any sort of improvement to your mana through that glyph.

I stack Mastery>Haste(1956)>Crit>Haste. I do this because I'm using EF. If EF isn't a talent you are going for then you should probably just focus Mastery>Crit>Haste
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
12/20/2012 09:49 PMPosted by Tribaz
You should stack spirit and then mastery in that order , illuminated healing will always be your #1 heal on the recounts , it's too good to pass it for haste , hope it helps.


Can you post some logs please? I noticed that you are stacking heavy into spirit and am really curious to see it in action. I see a lot of progressed raiders stacking it and I'm wondering if I'm missing something super beneficial. I don't really have any mana issues (minus poor management on Empress last night /sadface) at the moment, so I'm curious as to what you guys are seeing that I'm not.

Also, I noticed that you reforged some crit into mastery instead of haste but I see your haste at over the recommended break point. Are you reaching a second break point in raid? Or was there a change to stats?

We are about to start Terrace this Sunday so I'm curious how others are handling it.
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90 Draenei Paladin
13095
I think most healers are "stacking heavy into Spirit" at least with gems and such, because of the double itemization budget and how important mana regen is in harder content. The one place where I would consider Spirit vs. Intellect to really be a decision is food/flask buffs.

I doubt I could heal effectively if I dropped down to 7k Spirit. Even considering trinkets and such, it's still an amazingly low number for a progression raider.

As far as Haste vs. Crit... Haste is still useful between breakpoints. You could argue Crit is better because it's mana efficient, you could argue Haste is better because it's reliable, I tend to prefer Haste slightly but it really doesn't make a huge difference. The breakpoints are vastly overrated too - getting an additional tick on a 30 second HoT isn't the biggest deal.

P.S. If you're snooping through my logs, I die on Lei Shi every week. It's a ritual. Don't hate. :-P
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8850
^This

I also have a theory that crit > haste with pve 4p.

Since Holy Shock will be down to 4 sec CD, with absolutely no haste you will be able to squeeze in one cast (without procs) between holy shocks, that is, 1.5sec GCD + 2.5sec cast. No matter how much haste you have, you will not be able to squeeze in another hard cast between each holy shock. On top of that, having more holy shocks also increases the value of crit through infusion of light proc.

Just a rough theory though.
Edited by Saih on 12/21/2012 6:55 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
I think most healers are "stacking heavy into Spirit" at least with gems and such, because of the double itemization budget and how important mana regen is in harder content. The one place where I would consider Spirit vs. Intellect to really be a decision is food/flask buffs.

I doubt I could heal effectively if I dropped down to 7k Spirit. Even considering trinkets and such, it's still an amazingly low number for a progression raider.

As far as Haste vs. Crit... Haste is still useful between breakpoints. You could argue Crit is better because it's mana efficient, you could argue Haste is better because it's reliable, I tend to prefer Haste slightly but it really doesn't make a huge difference. The breakpoints are vastly overrated too - getting an additional tick on a 30 second HoT isn't the biggest deal.

P.S. If you're snooping through my logs, I die on Lei Shi every week. It's a ritual. Don't hate. :-P


Spirit doesn't seem to be as much of an issue on my pally, either. Divine purpose is just so great and free... i end up not spending mana for 5 secs at a time when it chain procs. Of course i'm just starting out on him but it's not as strict as disc's mana regen. Can be a bit looser with cds.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12465
Can I play, Keiri?

Riôt
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
Can I play, Keiri?

Riôt


Sure Riot. Any help is appreciated. It is funny though... i can pull 50k hps with minimal effort on my paladin without having mana issues. My priest couldn't do that till she hit 474 (back when i played holy for a week or so cus disc was abysmal without overgearing stuff)
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
12/21/2012 07:17 PMPosted by Keirisonis
i can pull 50k hps with minimal effort on my paladin without having mana issues. My priest couldn't do that till she hit 474 (back when i played holy for a week or so cus disc was abysmal without overgearing stuff)


Just dinged 90 on my priest tonight. Bought all the 450 crafted, respec'd to disc and jumped into my first dungeon. Holy Hell was that stressful. I must have spent half of the first dungeon looking for my, "WHERE THE HELL DO I GET MANA BACK?" button.
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