5.2 warlock nerfs w/ represenation so low

90 Worgen Warlock
18570
Don't forget nerfing sac pact by 50% when we already get killed through it on live...

Soul leech is also no longer going to heal us but be a shield. Not enough info yet on whether this shield has an ignite style, blood DK style, is dispellable, etc. It will however not heal you if you need to lifetap or whatever so we are STILL at the mercy of healers to simply just dps even when taking no damage in 2/3 specs.

Being the 3rd lowest or 2nd lowest class in representation depending on bracket while the other 2/3 lowest classes get huge buffs while we take nerfs...recipe for disaster in 5.2 pretty clearly.

Yes blood fear needed to change but so did a great many other things which were mostly buffs or at least mechanics changes that would be buffs in pvp (but not pve). None of those happened just hte nerfs.

TLDR = They took away the belt but didn't give us suspenders...thus for 5.2 we are stuck w' our pants down and melee standing right behind us.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5620
Don't forget nerfing sac pact by 50% when we already get killed through it on live...

Soul leech is also no longer going to heal us but be a shield. Not enough info yet on whether this shield has an ignite style, blood DK style, is dispellable, etc. It will however not heal you if you need to lifetap or whatever so we are STILL at the mercy of healers to simply just dps even when taking no damage in 2/3 specs.

Being the 3rd lowest or 2nd lowest class in representation depending on bracket while the other 2/3 lowest classes get huge buffs while we take nerfs...recipe for disaster in 5.2 pretty clearly.

Yes blood fear needed to change but so did a great many other things which were mostly buffs or at least mechanics changes that would be buffs in pvp (but not pve). None of those happened just hte nerfs.

TLDR = They took away the belt but didn't give us suspenders...thus for 5.2 we are stuck w' our pants down and melee standing right behind us.


So.. because not that many people like warlocks that means they should get buffed? .. seem legit... /sarcasm
Edited by Turmoyl on 12/29/2012 3:42 AM PST
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4 Undead Warlock
0


So.. because not that many people like warlocks that means they should get buffed? .. seem legit... /sarcasm


Yeah, clearly there's no reason behind people disliking playing locks.
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90 Undead Warlock
9020
Warlocks need at least 1 spec to work with. In Cata, at least warlocks had affliction. Despite all the complaining about destro/demo even after nerfs, affliction is actually slightly more common than these 2 specs now. That says a lot because afflction is a shadow of its former self in MoP. At the moment there is no good warlock spec for arenas

http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stats-classesrepartition-0-0-0-0--3-0-0.html

Not only are warlocks the 3rd least represented class who are getting nerfed tremendously while rogues and monks get huge buffs, but

- Arms warriors, Shadow priests, BM hunters and Frost mages each outrepresent all 3 warlock specs combined at 2200+
- All 4 of those classes even have secondary specs that outrepresent any warlock spec at 2200+
- There are 10 times as many arms warriors as any spec of warlock at 2200+
- Druids have 3 specs that all outrepresent any warlock spec at 2200+
- 8 total classes have at least 2 specs that outrepresent any warlock spec at 2200+
Edited by Ofman on 12/29/2012 5:12 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5620


So.. because not that many people like warlocks that means they should get buffed? .. seem legit... /sarcasm


Yeah, clearly there's no reason behind people disliking playing locks.


yup even tho one of the most represented dpses in the game are middle of the pact but they surely rolled those classes for the dps not for the playstyle.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
10970
12/21/2012 08:35 PMPosted by Cieron
Holy crap a pure dps class does a lot of damage.....nerf it.


If you cruised by the mage forums at all over the last few weeks, you would see alot of this. And although enough people bi***ing allowed us to get a teeny weeny bit of crit back, it was really more of a "here's a scrap to go chew on for awhile so we can destroy your class and get away before you notice" type deal. RIP pure damage dealing classes.

I understand our classes still bring a few things to the raid, namely AI and lock stones, but it makes more sense to bring the hybrid classes now.....

One day wow will be a blast again, just too bad that day isn't now.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
Warlocks need at least 1 spec to work with. In Cata, at least warlocks had affliction. Despite all the complaining about destro/demo even after nerfs, affliction is actually slightly more common than these 2 specs now. That says a lot because afflction is a shadow of its former self in MoP. At the moment there is no good warlock spec for arenas

http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stats-classesrepartition-0-0-0-0--3-0-0.html

Not only are warlocks the 3rd least represented class who are getting nerfed tremendously while rogues and monks get huge buffs, but

- Arms warriors, Shadow priests, BM hunters and Frost mages each outrepresent all 3 warlock specs combined at 2200+
- All 4 of those classes even have secondary specs that outrepresent any warlock spec at 2200+
- There are 10 times as many arms warriors as any spec of warlock at 2200+
- Druids have 3 specs that all outrepresent any warlock spec at 2200+
- 8 total classes have at least 2 specs that outrepresent any warlock spec at 2200+


All those classes outrepresent warlocks in pve as well but warlocks do a ton more dps. What point are you trying to make exactly? Punish players for not liking warlock by buffing them even more?
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90 Undead Warlock
13160


All those classes outrepresent warlocks in pve as well but warlocks do a ton more dps. What point are you trying to make exactly? Punish players for not liking warlock by buffing them even more?


er, what? Right now Afflic is up top with Arcane and Frost, while Demo is middle of the pack and Destro is ranked, like, 17th. PvE-wise, Locks are even with those classes.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0


All those classes outrepresent warlocks in pve as well but warlocks do a ton more dps. What point are you trying to make exactly? Punish players for not liking warlock by buffing them even more?


er, what? Right now Afflic is up top with Arcane and Frost, while Demo is middle of the pack and Destro is ranked, like, 17th. PvE-wise, Locks are even with those classes.


Warlock is even with one of those classes rofl.
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90 Orc Warlock
11340
Didn't read all the posts, only the first page. It seems people do not know how to patch note.

Glyph of Burning Embers has been removed, and its effects are now baseline for Destruction Warlocks.
Glyph of Soul Shards has been removed, and its effects are now baseline for Affliction Warlocks.

Taken off MMO-Champ.
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90 Undead Warlock
13160
Didn't read all the posts, only the first page. It seems people do not know how to patch note.

Glyph of Burning Embers has been removed, and its effects are now baseline for Destruction Warlocks.
Glyph of Soul Shards has been removed, and its effects are now baseline for Affliction Warlocks.

Taken off MMO-Champ.


So basically we got our 3rd Glyph slot back, since those are changes that should have been made during beta.

Also, I have no idea what Fayte is trying to say.
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90 Worgen Warlock
18570
Destro is near the back of the pack over nearly every fight in a 16 boss content in both normal and heroic. Its pvp representation hovers around 2nd to 3rd lowest. Thus it MUST be nerfed!

Hey Greg...remember in beta when you called the simcraft/lock community mistaken or liars? Remember when you said we were wrong, sims were wrong, and destro's numbers were strong? Blew off any logic or data as "don't have time to debugg a community tool" yet after months of live data OUR position is utterly verified. You are and were mistaken. So why keep nerfing destro when every empirical scrap of data says it shouldn't be?

Its not like its super complex where there is a high skill cap so we can't buff it for fear of the top players being OP....its the most kindergarden lock spec out there. The delta between the best and weakest destro locks is far narrower than demo or aff. So why the beatdown?

A 3rd glyph slot is nice but no glyphs really change dps. We just get to twiddle around w' some minor utility as it stands now (which is okay) but its hardly going to offset major nerfs. Scaling of destro also suggests it will not scale as well as aff so the "well w' T15 gear it needs the nerfs" doesn't play either.

How much data does it take to for Greg to admit he was wrong about the relative effectiveness of destro in pvp and/or pve? What IS the burden of proof in his mind? Does the green fire warlock quest add 15% dps I'm unaware of?
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90 Human Warlock
17825
Players get feared, players QQ
Players get hit by a big chaos bolt or chaos wave, players QQ

Players QQ, Warlocks get nerfed even while they are strugling to stay afloat from the bottom ranks in pvp, and logic never had anything to do with any step along the process.

I admit our pve DPS is probably fine, so if bliz wants to keep an eye on warlock PVE dps, that's understandable. But nerfing blood fear, Silence, Sacrificial Pact, and our self healing at a time where we are severely underperforming in PVP is just bat-!@#$ pants on head retarded insanity and clearly nothing more then spineless QQ caving to the portion of the community who's QQ they actually listen to (wich clearly is not Locks, cuz we do QQ plenty - both warrented and unwarrented, but appearantly has no effect or influence either way).
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
10670
My only honest-to-God question to the dev crew is if they're accounting for all the overkill padding Destro does on add fights when they decided to nerf. Destro looks much better than it truly is if you account for overkill.

But Destro isn't bad, nearly as bad as people say. It's behind on single target, does just as well everywhere else. It suffers far more from not having all buffs and procs in 10 man than the other specs do as well, but that's not a huge deal, honestly. Supposidly 10 man is balanced to account for such things.
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90 Worgen Warlock
18570
25H destro is midpack
25N destro is near the bottom
10H destro is above avg*
10N destro is near the bottom

Its also between the 2nd and 3rd lowest represented pvp class (with all specs about the same level of representation). Our pve got a nerf and pvp was gutted. Under what circumstances do you see that as justification for the beatdown?

Also I would NOT trust that data in summary format. In heroic 10 (destro's best showing) you don't even see destro on the radar period in many fights.

H10 HoF destro is only showing up on empress (strong) and amber shaper (midpack). Completely non existent on the first bosses.

H10 MGV the only fight it does well on (when it even shows up) is elegon.

H10 Terrace doesn't even have enough sample size yet for ranking purposes so the entire raid is not valid.

I could pick at the others but they are all weak showings of destro. Comparing the strongest listing of destro in summary format clearly doesn't support it since its largely incomplete. When you study it in detail its clear destro isn't as strong as someone like yourself (either ignorant of the data or trolling) is going on about.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
17205
Every PVP thread regarding warlocks, hybrid players come in complaining about affliction (even if not explicitly stated) in raiding. This has no bearing on the topic.

12/29/2012 03:41 AMPosted by Turmoyl
So.. because not that many people like warlocks that means they should get buffed?


As even a cursory glance at history will show, many PVP players--particularly higher rated ones--can and do switch classes at the slightly hint of one being better for various comps with little thought about "liking" it (they like winning). One has only to look at the crazy roller-coaster of rogue and warrior representations going from Cata to MoP to show the truth of it.
Edited by Kelvaren on 12/31/2012 2:54 PM PST
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90 Worgen Warlock
17035
Thank god I don't pvp, looks terrible atm.

Onto PvE:

In Heroic ToeS Destro is mind blowingly amazing on all the fights except Lei Shi. On heroic Sha of Fear I don't think there is another class/spec in the game that can touch a destro lock (at least in P2).

The problem is mechanically it's difficult to perform such good dps. Destro has been simplified so much that it seems like locks can't adapt their playstyle to maxmize dps. This gets into a huge argument about skill-cap that I really don't feel like getting into BUT I do feel it's a valid reason for the poor representation of destro.
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90 Orc Warrior
9640


Not to be rude in any way at all, but you would be laughed out of the forums for saying this in cata. In cata we were crap. Mages and Spriests later in the expac blew us out of the water in damage.

Now in mop we are finally competitive although a bit higher than other specs. But given blizz's recent handling with mages, they are kinda blind when it comes to the nerf bat.


Please never use this argument again. This is like saying Combat was strong in Cata so they should gut it during MoP. Noone pays any mind to a specs past performance in other expansions to judge how it is now. This is the worst example you could use that would get you "laughed out of the forums" for using it. No one likes this example, it is the worst way of saying "Don't nerf me bro." Other specs were lower than mages and spriests in Cata, and its irrelevant to their performance now. So just stop it.


Well not only that but what they said was flat out wrong. Warlocks were in a very good spot during tier 11 and tier 12. It wasn't until tier 13 that they weren't very good, but I don't believe Shadow Priests were either. Mages were of course, but that's not surprising.
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