5.2 warlock nerfs w/ represenation so low

90 Gnome Warlock
12620
Nerf me all you want, still gonna be better than half the classes out there... naked.

Things are only naughty if you're naked.


Warlock have so much keybinds, that's why they are hard to balance. Good warlock will always be top! *heroicly raise his fist in the air*
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90 Blood Elf Mage
6075
02/03/2013 08:11 AMPosted by Purebalance
Because it doesn't exist other than screenshots from a certain bg where people take and deal increased damage and it was pre gosac nerf on cb and pre cw nerf.


You're funny.
http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/175075-comprehensive-gladiator-breakdown/
You've already seen this and others similar, this was literally after maybe 6 seconds of searching.

Use the search tool?
Obviously I didn't put much effort into this. If you want a current season breakdown, you're out of luck until the season is finished.

02/03/2013 03:09 PMPosted by Dysnomiã
Role a mage if you want to top DPS with little to no effort.


What are you talking about?
The only spec beating Affliction is combat.
Oh right, people complaining that their class or spec is more difficult, when there isn't a dps spec in existence that is difficult.

Arc is not being made non-viable, that is just false information.

Frankly, there isn't information for arcane either way, since they aren't done changing things.
As long as people don't claim extremes like the top DPS or bottom DPS there's no real point debating it.
Edited by Warping on 2/5/2013 1:58 AM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
9745

Obviously I didn't put much effort into this.

Finally we agree on something!
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90 Troll Mage
15205
02/04/2013 07:43 AMPosted by Methalos


You realise the spec/build that is currently putting mages at second is being made non-viable in 5.2 right?


Arc is not being made non-viable, that is just false information.


He said spec/build, which is accurate. The build in such that you take scorch and scorchweave to keep max stacks is no longer an optional.
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90 Undead Warlock
13800
02/06/2013 09:34 AMPosted by Kagecamia
See warping, when you step into Hell's kitchen, expect to get flamed with fel fire.


Totally thought her name was 'Warpig' until just now lolz
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90 Blood Elf Mage
6075
02/06/2013 09:34 AMPosted by Kagecamia
See warping, when you step into Hell's kitchen, expect to get flamed with fel fire.


What?
I just went to show how ridiculously easy getting such information is.
The fact that you'd rather I repost it is simply laziness on your part.
I still remember laughing at you for making the assertion that mana is more of an issue to demo warlocks than it is arcane mages.

You dont have mages camping at 4 stacks, like blizzard wants them to spend their charges. Problem solved.

People won't be camping stacks when the final result is above 50% more mana cost with no decent filler (ala scorch).
Edited by Warping on 2/6/2013 3:25 PM PST
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42 Orc Hunter
9090
Green fire with destro non viable pve and pvp...so we have it just no place to actually use it.

Locks have their lowest rep in recorded history of wow. Oddly arms is roughly 1400% more represented than the next spec and many times worse than RLS was last expansion. If you complained about locks then you should be going torches and pitchforks over the present balance. Statisitically speaking wow pvp has never been so imbalanced as it is in MoP. Hard to claim job well done Greg...

So GC's team's notion to make it better is to take the lowest 2/3 specs (who are all similarly represented) and give them godlike buffs. I can see the logic in this. Might be overkill, might not, but at least gets them back on the radar. However you take the 3rd least represented and instead of buffing the things that are terribly wrong it gets gutted. Yes blood fear needed to change but we need ALOT of other changes to fix other things with most of those changes being buffs. Especially buffs that don't touch pve. (ua dispels granting a shard, uninteruptable MG or at least DL, etc)

Fix the stuff that's wrong with our specs in pvp in ways that don't impact pve significantly. THAT is what locks need and that is what the game needs. Just beating a class to the point any player shouldn't even consider trying to participate in one half of the game is never acceptable. Many very experienced and high end locks have made many threads in recent times about how to do that.


Hey you should make these points again. It's definitely not the third time in this thread you yourself have said basically the same thing.

And some of the things you've said about classes balance and ideas over the course of this this thread are downright embarrassing...

If you think Chaos Bolt should ever at any point be below a 2 second cast, you're insane. If you think that mages weren't going to get their blanket silence removed like likes, you're a moron (Yes they're both back now). If you didn't think that the extra ember and soul shard were going be baseline, you're an idiot. So on so forth.

Locks have always had low rep. Even in the several seasons when they had 2-4x the second class in gladiator rep, they had like 2% overall rep. Locks have always been in a great spot, and if you think you're underpowered now, you'd be correct. Any good player wants balance, though, not revenge on other classes for previous expansions.
I mean on the first GD page of this thread someone is saying "Well in Cata..." which is one of the most asinine things I've ever heard.

But that's the thing, locks have always been the best arena damage class. Behind priests, they've had the most gladiators, most duelists, and most 2200+ representation, and priests are only ahead because they're a class that has always performed well in 2 roles in arena. So, while I hate to see any class underpowered, locks can suck it up. Cry all you want, you have been for all these years, even at the top, but seriously, don't expect any sympathy from anyone other than locks. If your hard-on for warriors is this massive after 1 season of them being on this level, you can probably imagine how people feel about warlocks.


And yet most of the r1's and r1alts whom have hit multi glad with locks are echoing many of the complaints. One of the best (Nada) made most of them in a topic here that was moved to the lock forums without any response. Your defense of warriors is quite hilarious, but I forget we had seasons where 3 locks broke 2700 on bg9 like the wars did last season...oh wait. Posting from a phone so I'll apologise that this is the condensed version of what I'd like to say.
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42 Orc Hunter
9090
Additionally you forgot about the part where much of the strength is shared by some very amazing resto shamans, but I digress.
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90 Human Mage
17245
12/21/2012 08:35 PMPosted by Cieron
Holy crap a pure dps class does a lot of damage.....nerf it.


Ikr. I've been getting hated on for representing pure dps classes by those who believe everyone should be on equal footing with every other class and I think it is beyond ridiculous because if you can compete with a pure dps while being able to switch gears and tank or heal then that means we are not on equal footing. It is hypocrisy.
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90 Goblin Warlock
16125
You're funny.http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/175075-comprehensive-gladiator-breakdown/You've already seen this and others similar, this was literally after maybe 6 seconds of searching.Use the search tool?Obviously I didn't put much effort into this. If you want a current season breakdown, you're out of luck until the season is finished.


First off you were told to prove locks were doing great THIS season which you seem to claim or something in the neighborhood or rather even claim that they aren't bad. You did not prove that with your link.

Secondly:

Old thread on AJ with known tainted data? Check
Data that proves locks have had seasons middle of the pack or lower? Check

So what did your "you can just search" link prove? Nothing but the fact that you were wrong.
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90 Human Warlock
6520
12/21/2012 06:14 PMPosted by Humandude
I dont understand why they are nerfing warlock survivalbility damage and utility. Also if drain life/ember tap replace soulshards/embers respectively without compensation the class will just not be fun to play.
actually they are buffing warlocks. stop trolling about a class before you actually do get us nerfed :D
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90 Blood Elf Mage
6075
I know the amount of damage you do is determined by how much mana you spend. It is funny that you don't think I know a damn thing about mages. But I digress.

But with the current arcane, you place your rune, regen mana passively, regen mana through your haste, burn it through casting Arc Blast and cast scorch when you need to regen mana while still attacking.


Our damage it determined by how much mana we have left, not how much we have spent.
Well, if you want to get technical, that could apply to anything that uses mana as a resource.

Would you rather we just didn't attack? Because that is ridiculously silly considering that rune of power - maintaining max stacks will be impossible in 5.2 such that invocation would be the only viable choice.

First off you were told to prove locks were doing great THIS season which you seem to claim or something in the neighborhood or rather even claim that they aren't bad. You did not prove that with your link.


Actually I wasn't.
Firstly, I stated that they have done better than most for the majority of this game.
He made the two assertions and I addressed one of those.
Silly complaints about being bad in the season, when the season is about to end should easily be disregarded.

Secondly, I would not be able to tell you to what extent they are balanced without knowing the overall percentage of warlocks to other classes, but as GC has implied a few times, that percentage is low. Hence the rebuilding of your class.

Infact, this whole thread is about that very point, so it seems to fit in quite well.

Old thread on AJ with known tainted data? Check


I'm sorry, please link me to something that has "untainted" data.
Please.

Data that proves locks have had seasons middle of the pack or lower? Check


Middle of the pack would be doing well, when you factor in the population base of warlocks which has been shown to be at best lower than average.

02/07/2013 09:27 AMPosted by Kagecamia
So yeah when the boss is hackign away or massive aoe is incoming ie Elegon. I essentially cannot cast Life Tap to fear of dying, aka stopping my rotation completely.

That is precisely why warlocks have so much health and typically better defensive cooldowns.
Note the typically, exceptions do exist.
Edited by Warping on 2/8/2013 11:31 PM PST
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12 Pandaren Monk
5570
My main is a lock, and tbh why my avatar doesn't show my character. But none the less that's totally irrelevant. Anyways I am still on the fence about this patch. More on the side of not liking it a whole lot. I like to be able to move and cast with cunning becoming a baseline, but I haven't seen what they are going to replace the actual talent with. It seem a bit rushed with this upcoming patch. as always they r reducing the warlocks ability to stay competitive with other classes. I mainly do PVE, but non the less each side should be handled equally.

I see on to many forums that other people complain only the PVP aspect, well I like for them to address PVE and PVE equally. Whatever still not important, anyways the ember tap making it a stronger heal option is great and having embers and shard become baseline is great too.

But it's like hey check how awesome this is! why they actually totally rob you in many more ways, so the benefit is not really a benefit but more like we all know to well and getting raped.

But non the less we move on we still make our characters shine as compared to others who would just give up. That's why the class lore is pretty strong.

But non the less I also do not see how the way they say hey the way we did the talents prevent the need for cookie cutter builds. To me this is not the case, for one you don't have that many options and 2 they r just that, talents you must choose in order to achieve max results. In other words cookie cutter to the fullest. But I digress on this.

Why is it we r getting nerfed, and yet 4 monk abilities among the page and a 1/2 of patch work notes for that class r getting op'd. Tiger palm, chi wave, jade lighting, and another all r receiving 100% damage/ healing increase just to name a very few.

But non the less this is about locks so I digress on the subject as well.

I will say its about time that they gave DI and extra added buff, because deep down it was cool until everyone and there mom was able to whip out a similar spell buff out which trumped ours in the raid. At least this makes for a option to compete with other similar style buffs.

Also fel armor reducing 10% total damage is nice.

I have to beg your pardon ladies and gents, for this not being so clear and concise and well put together. My kid is running around like a wild animal but I only had a little time to write. But anyways hopefully all is well and works out for the locks. Only time will tell I guess.

I also wanted to point out that I understand that they can only really work on a class or two, when I referenced the monk having a litany list of things as compared to others. We had our over haul at the launch of MOP. Wasn't trying to sound selfish, even though it prolly came across as such.

But non the less take care and be well. Look forward to reading more posts on the subject matter.
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90 Undead Warlock
12980
Let me give your example on how much and issue it is for demonologu: Demonology's Execute Soul Fire costs 15% of my base mana, so roughly 6 casts I am oom. During an execute phase I swap in and out of meta to use my fury and to use my SF in caster form.

However there is a problem, my execute acts a pendulum swinging between two sides. As we cast SF, our mana goes down greatly and when then switch to fury until we burn most of it. HOWEVER! The amount of mana I regen while in meta form, is terrible. less than 1k to 2k per sec.

So yeah when the boss is hackign away or massive aoe is incoming ie Elegon. I essentially cannot cast Life Tap to fear of dying, aka stopping my rotation completely.


You make me sad.

First off, 15% of your "base" mana does not mean "total" mana after gear. If you were completely naked, then yes, you could get 6 Soul Fires off, but we don't DPS naked do we?

As far as high raid damage burn phases go; look ahead. You have this nifty talent called Sacrificial Pact. It's flipping amazing; use it often. Let's say you just entered execute range and the raid is taking a bunch of damage. Pop Sacrificial Pact, you now have a 200k+ absorb or so. Pop a healthstone and Life Tap to full if you have to. Or, life tap to full before you reach the burn phase. You've also got unending resolve to reduce damage. Locks are fantastic at keeping themselves up; use your stuff.

I just find it amazing that you're being shut down on the LFR version. It's not that much damage. Stack up while your healers faceroll their AoE heals.
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90 Human Warlock
7365
02/10/2013 08:20 AMPosted by Ginsing
I like to be able to move and cast with cunning becoming a baseline,


What? Since when was this ever announced?
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
17205
Og, this is still going on? Certain posters proved incapable of ridding themselves of preconceived notions long ago. Don't see a point in responding to them still.

However, I gotta comment on the importance of mana for demo versus arcane. They're similar is in how much time must be spent regaining mana rather than following their optimal DPS rotations. Arcane has more complexities involved in this, but as demo does a good deal less DPS than it from the start, the time lost on life tapping hurts it more. End.
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