Analogy Of New Rogue 5.2 Changes [PvP]

90 Undead Warlock
4945
So after reading the notes, at first i got super excited. Then i calmed myself down, and thought about how each change effects arena and game-play style. Sadly, the results weren't as exciting as I hoped for. While there are some buffs, hopefully those who understand the mechanics of rogues will pretty agree with the general thought put on what i have to say here. Lets have a read..

Preparation is now a baseline ability learned at level 68.


Overall good buff and nice QoL fix that all rogues will agree is nice.

New Level-90 Talent: Marked for Death
Marks a target and instantly generates 5 combo points. When that target dies, Marked for Death's cooldown is reset. This talent has a 1-minute cooldown.


Replacing versatility is a nice change. However, since this talent lines up with anticipation and ST, i highly doubt most rogues will pick this. Anticipation helps with sub combo-point generation (which also happens to be the most preferred spec), and ST helps with ranged combo point generation if not on target. Maybe good for open with garrote--> instant kidney for dance openers, or ShS instant kidney shots for mut.

New Level-60 Talent: Cloak and Dagger
Ambush, Garrote, and Cheap Shot now have a 30-yard range, and will cause the Rogue to teleport behind the target.


Coolest story and fun talent, but viability is going to lack here. This benefits sub the most because of dance. Combat and Sin will not benefit from it as much unless vanishing. Biggest downside to this is that you lose ALL mobility when you dont have it and you would theorifically be forced to vanish or pop dance just to get on a target thats kiting you. Most arena games...even bgs your always slowed or rooted by something. Maybe good for 2's but for competitive arena ShS and maybe...just MAYBE, BoS might work. Fun talent tho.

Burst of Speed now costs 30 Energy (was 50 Energy), can be used in Stealth, and always grants increased movement speed in addition to breaking snare effects, but no longer breaks root effects.


The 30 energy cost isn't to bad, but of course we cant break roots. However, ALWAYS sprinting now is a nice bonus. This might make a comeback, but i still 90% of rogues will take ShS.

Shuriken Toss now causes the Rogue to throw shuriken instead of auto-attacking for 10 seconds after Shuriken Toss is used.


We can throw a billion knives? Hm k. Sounds fun if you pick this talent. Also, if your autoattacks become ranged, does that mean each ranged hit procs poisons also? =O

Deadly Throw can now interrupt spellcasting when used at 3, 4, and 5 combo points, and upon interrupt prevents any spell in that school from being cast for 4, 5 and 6 seconds respectively (was 5 combo points and 6 seconds).


Another cool story. In arena i believe 99% of rogues take Readiness for the "oh shyt" dmg reduction. Its sad that this is talent and on the same tier as the others. While the buff is nice, most won't pick it still because of how comps still focus rogues to the ground. Maybe against caster cleaves it will be "ok", but i still doubt it. If it was baseline...then it would be a different story.

Nerve Strike now reduces the effectiveness of healing provided by the target by 25%.


This seems quite powerful IF it stacks with wound poiosn. That is a tremendous amount of lesser healing if it stacks and burst comps with rogues could drill a target into the ground. For comps that focus highly on the offensive, this might be work. Toss up between this and readiness and its going to be probably dependent on playstyle/ your comp, and their comp.

Shadow Focus now reduces ability energy costs by 75% while stealthed (was 100%).


: /

PvP set bonuses have been changed:
Vigor is now the 4-piece set bonus and increases maximum energy by 50 (was 10).
Deadly Brew is now the 2-piece set bonus, and its effects remain unchanged.


Higher pooling for sub burst. Pretty sweet. However once mutilate exhausts its energy, your still gunna be ooe. Suppose its QoL issue for some.

Combat
Vitality now increases attack power by 30% (was 25%).
Blade Flurry now deals 75% less damage.


I personally like to arena as combat for fun, and 5% more ap doesn't make me sad.

Subtlety
Sanguinary Vein now increases the damage the target takes by 20% (was 16%).


Make hemo apply it and no rogue will !@#$%. Should just say we will b*tch less...cause..u know...were rogues.

Overall changes look fun and with some nice little perks. However, its not the lack of damage that most rogues face, its usually the survivability and energy regen in some cases. Prep will help, but in theory, thats the only TRUE buff we have gotten so far. Hopefully more will come out b4 5.2
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1 Human Priest
0
I feel like there are really only two buffs: Preperation baseline and +50 energy from the PvP bonus (possibly Nerve Strike as well if it stacks). All the other buffs are for talents that rogues don't take now, and probably still won't take after the patch.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
8335
cloak and dagger,
Correct me if im wrong, but will we be able to open through flares with this?
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100 Night Elf Rogue
8995
12/23/2012 02:22 PMPosted by Dëstroyer
Overall good buff and nice QoL fix that all rogues will agree is nice.


Umm...prep being baseline is MUCH more than a QoL fix.

12/23/2012 02:22 PMPosted by Dëstroyer
Replacing versatility is a nice change. However, since this talent lines up with anticipation and ST, i highly doubt most rogues will pick this. Anticipation helps with sub combo-point generation (which also happens to be the most preferred spec), and ST helps with ranged combo point generation if not on target. Maybe good for open with garrote--> instant kidney for dance openers, or ShS instant kidney shots for mut.


I dont see MfD appearing much in any PvE specs...perhaps getting picked slightly more than versatility on fights were there is a lot of add that die fast.

In PvP....I think this will get some use, MUCH more than versa, the main draws being Mut and combat.

In a sense you cant every "waste" this CD...since it resets if the target dies. So you can pick off low HP targets, or targets that are going to get focused (EFCs) to get essentially a "free" 5cp.

MfD has a SCARY close relation with premed which is why I think the talent will get reworked at bit before release.

12/23/2012 02:22 PMPosted by Dëstroyer
The 30 energy cost isn't to bad, but of course we cant break roots. However, ALWAYS sprinting now is a nice bonus. This might make a comeback, but i still 90% of rogues will take ShS.


Na, I think a lot will shift to BoS from ShS, mainly because with the now 150/170 energy we have spending a mere 30 to clear ALL slows and gain a speed boost is quite nice.

12/23/2012 02:22 PMPosted by Dëstroyer
This seems quite powerful IF it stacks with wound poiosn. That is a tremendous amount of lesser healing if it stacks and burst comps with rogues could drill a target into the ground. For comps that focus highly on the offensive, this might be work. Toss up between this and readiness and its going to be probably dependent on playstyle/ your comp, and their comp.


I dont see why it wouldnt "stack" with WP.

WP reduces healing RECEIVED

Nerve Strike reduces healing PROVIDED
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cloak and dagger,
Correct me if im wrong, but will we be able to open through flares with this?


yes this is basically sub's shadowstep everytime we go to attack someone, i love this already.

Sap someone tele over to your main target and start killing them, vanish repeat if you want or shadowdance guess what, poof, better than a shadowstep :D
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
Req
5235
lack of damage hasn't particularly been a problem, for sub it's been lack of sustained dmg due to lack of mobility. Our damage is highly cooldown based in sub, and still is strong enough bearing that we have proper mobility to stick on targets Assasination with uptime also has very strong dmg, rogues problem has been lacking uptime, due to being squishy, and the mass cc moving around. baseline prep with the ability to use shadowstep will help a lot in a burst meta like today.

Still saying the same thing since i quit and sold my 6 time glad rogue before cata, printing smoke bomb was the worst thing blizzard could do for rogues. Too overpowered if they give us the dmg other classes have, too hard to balance, always going to make errs in judgement making rogues OP or UP as a singleton class, but always viable in 3v3 and beyond due to uniqueness and combination with burst.
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90 Undead Warlock
4945
^ pretty sure i mentioned that lack of dmg wasn't a problem. The main problems i see are mobility still, survivability even tho prep will help a little), and energy regen for mut. Once mut hits low energy...thats basically it. Your gunna be stuck at low energy spamming ST if you have it. Hell a lot of people actually replaced Mutilate with ST just because of energy cost and low generation.

Were not going to have it all sadly, but a few changes will be nice. Sub needs sang vang back 2 hemo, mut needs increased energy regen somehow, and all 3 need step baseline in addition to us having prep.
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12/23/2012 02:22 PMPosted by Dëstroyer
Maybe good for open with garrote--> instant kidney for dance openers,


Why Kidney in a Dance? You can set up a Dance with Kidney first, but you can also just glyphed Cheap Shot in the Dance. Save you 5cp for Evis, it's a significant part of Sub's burst now.

Between the extra energy and MfD, I wonder how much Sub's burst will increase.

I dont see why it wouldnt "stack" with WP.

WP reduces healing RECEIVED

Nerve Strike reduces healing PROVIDED


Interesting point, good attention to detail.
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90 Undead Rogue
5325
With every single class having about 200 ways to CC a rogue into worthlessness... I dont see how any of this helps. Prep is nice... but it doesnt solve anything. It would be nice if blizz decided to "solve" problems and not cover them up slightly and look the other way.
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90 Worgen Rogue
0
As combat, I am PISSED about the nerf to Blade Flurry. That's a massive stealth nerf to Killing Spree. It's not always possible to land KS on one target, especially if you're fighting a pet class.
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90 Worgen Rogue
0
As combat, I am PISSED about the nerf to Blade Flurry. That's a massive stealth nerf to Killing Spree. It's not always possible to land KS on one target, especially if you're fighting a pet class.


Gouge/Blind pet then Kspree to your hearts content.

It is a nerf to Kspree when there are two targets in PVP. But when there are 3-4 targets in a PVP setting the new Blade Flurry will be a buff.


You still need to get in a position such that only the master is within 15 yards and not the pet. I'll grant that this isn't impossible, but it is a fair bit of !@#$ery-pokery when you're trying to burst somebody down.

EDIT: Really? Jaggery spelled with an "i" instead of an "a" is censored?

I'll wait and see about 3-4 targets. 20% damage on 4 targets is still only 80% damage. Weeee.
Edited by Yowai on 1/16/2013 11:07 AM PST
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90 Human Warrior
12100
I just wanted to throw in that not all rogues like prep.
Lower the CD of step, make recoup not a waste of CPs or make leeching poison viable in combination with recoup. Stop making 90% of our finishers a passive dps buff.

I just hate putting up a snd, then rupture, then recoup, then needing to do it again in less than a minute.
Maybe if I ever decide to put in the effort to get on my rogue and grind out some conquest and get my t1 weapons I'll feel better but a 5 point evis doing garbage dmg really crushes the soul.
Where as my warrior (still no t1 weapon) can colossus, MS, overpower, slam and do sexy dmg in 4GCDs not even accounting for heroic strike with and tfb procs.
I hate comparing classes, I really do, but its so hard sometimes.
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90 Worgen Rogue
0
I just wanted to throw in that not all rogues like prep.
Lower the CD of step, make recoup not a waste of CPs or make leeching poison viable in combination with recoup. Stop making 90% of our finishers a passive dps buff.

I just hate putting up a snd, then rupture, then recoup, then needing to do it again in less than a minute.
Maybe if I ever decide to put in the effort to get on my rogue and grind out some conquest and get my t1 weapons I'll feel better but a 5 point evis doing garbage dmg really crushes the soul.
Where as my warrior (still no t1 weapon) can colossus, MS, overpower, slam and do sexy dmg in 4GCDs not even accounting for heroic strike with and tfb procs.
I hate comparing classes, I really do, but its so hard sometimes.


My rogue vastly outgears my warrior (he has dreadful helm, that's it) but yeah, I can't help but feel like he has way more killing power. My rogue can't kill ANYTHING quickly. He can do it; it just takes a while. My warrior can blast things down no problem. And bear in mind, I've only earned the dreadful helm; I'm very new (and very terrible at) playing a warrior. He shouldn't be making mincemeat of people!

Granted, I'm not doing very scientific comparisons here; it's just random battlegrounds. You can still average it out, though; each character will meet scrubs and pros. Over the course of several fights, the warrior just does better even with vastly inferior gear.

At least that's how it feels to me.
Edited by Yowai on 1/16/2013 11:47 AM PST
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90 Human Warrior
12100
I think people get too caught up in math and theory crafting which is valid, but not the end all be all in a game which at the end of the day is about having fun. I know rogues CAN do well, but its hard for me to have fun playing rogue when I can be a warrior and have what feels like more dmg (maybe because its active) survive, mobility and utility.
Edited by Swìneflew on 1/16/2013 12:08 PM PST
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90 Troll Rogue
6965
welp. either way at looking at it. it seems like rogues are getting buffed in some areas of non interest nor necessity. when the true areas needing attention are falling short.... hmmm still dont know bout rogues in 5.2
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90 Worgen Rogue
6700
Analogy Of New Rogue 5.2 Changes [PvP]


I'm sorry, I have to point this out because of my OCDness, but I think you mean "analysis" instead of "analogy". An analogy is a comparison of different things
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