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Can we get some feedback on this issue please?
All 10m N parses:
Top 100 10m N parses:
All 25m N parses:
Top 100 25m N parses:
We offer no raid utility compared to the classes consistently doing better than us in raw numbers. Either give us utility or give us our numbers back. I honestly do not care which one, but healing as a Mistweaver right now is not fun. You have to work your buns off to even get close to the output of other healers.
"Overall DPS 10H - Top 100 Parses - 14 Day Moving Median DPS - Showing Last 60 Days" http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10H/100/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111
This graph is the most telling to me. The three specs that provide the most raid utility and cooldowns are ahead of the three specs that offer the fewest.
The most frustrating part about this entire thing are the threads in the Class Discussion forum withing the MoP Beta forums which outlined in meticulous detail the power of Mistweaver healing and that it should probably be reigned in. Flash forward to release and we're still overpowered. That lasts for a few weeks until the inevitable Blizzard nerfbat held by a reckless 2 year old with ADHD and a vicious thirst for Mistweaver blood comes slamming down. Mistweavers are smashed to an unrecognizable pulp. Their former glory is shadowed by clunky single target healing mechanics (I'm looking at you, Healing Sphere), extremely lackluster cooldowns (Revival! Well, that was fun, I guess I'll wait 3 minutes to do something cool again), and tiresome buff maintenance that produces little reward.
I do not see any changes coming untell 5.2 which is quite depressing considering many of us are still working towards finishing this tier and Monks have suddenly become a poor choice for many fights, I have tweeted GC many times posted countless threads in this forum and the monk one with numbers to show what the issues are yet never get any type of reply.
Throw us a bone please.
I share the same sentiment towards you most the times that you post. It's all good.
Mistweavers suck in PvP too though.
You do certainly make a lot out of nothing. I and many others genuinely feel that monks were overnerfed without compensation, and many would agree that druid need attention one way or another. I see no problem with comparing thier positions as being relatively equal in a pure numbers sense at the moment.
Numbers themselves definately don't mean everything. Utility is also a factor and monks could use some more. I'm sorry that the mention of other healers in a thread pertaining to monks, even when in genuine support, on the healing forums gets you so riled up. Both monks and druids deserve to "QQ" (I don't much like using such a term, if you can even call it that. It feels childish) a little in my opinion. If things feel imbalanced we players will voice our opinions and concerns with little worry of being labled "QQ".
I don't see what you gain from berating me about mentioning druids along side monks. I wasn't directly comparing them or disreguarding the concerns monks have after the nerf hammer hit them so hard. Did my first couple sentences come off too satiric and not serious enough to suit your taste?
Mistweavers suck in PvP too though.
It is a problem trying to balance healers in pvp and pve, but a lot of that can be adjusted though utilitys such as movement, cooldowns, and cc that doesn't play a huge role in overall pve performance. Druids are probably too effective against melee with all thier utility and movement. With all the spellcleaves that rocked the arena finals there was no druids around (mostly shamans that handled it better). I'd like to think pve thoroughput and mechanical adjustments at least in part trumps pvp imbalances that blizzard often fails to address.
Edited by Stratis on 12/18/2012 9:55 PM PST
Stratis... a pact was made many moons ago between druids and monks that we would stick to our threads and not come onto theirs and QQ about our issues with the druid healing class. No point in turning this into another "well druids are worse" thread.
Let them do their thing, and keep posting on the druid healer threads! WE WANT CHANGES! YES WE DO!! keep fighting the good fight! DRUID POWAAAAAH!
90 Dwarf Shaman
Well you know Blizzard is infamous for nerfing things in this fashion. I think tossing parses at Blizzard is a lost cause as it's something they already have access to. I think stressing about QoL, mana nerf rollbacks and utility are stronger arguments.
Actually disc had already caught monks in 25s (top 100) before 5.1, same with pallies in 10s. In normals, monks were still slightly ahead in hps but remember both those specs also have damage reduction cooldowns which meters don't account for. The nerfs/buffs in hotfixes had done a decent job of bringing monk throughput back to the field, the hammering in 5.1+hot-fix was overkill so now the spec with the least control and worst utility by far is middling raw output.
I just wish SooMist still gave 35% chi chance. EM just feels so punishing to use in pvp with the chi cost being so high, and fist weaving not being a option in pvp. We really need Soothing Mist and Enveloping Mist to be more effective in pvp, and one way would be a boost in chi generation and a reduction in chi-cost. So even though the output isn't boosted we could use it more often.
I dunno MW pvp is so horrible right now. It's super bad.
That was the purpose of the last couple of sentences.
1. Mana tea is not fun especially when having mana to cast basic spells is reliant on you maximizing its usage.
You are punished in a major way for not using it on cooldown or using it with the glyph. I don't mind this maintenance if the reward is that we have better longevity. This used to be the case, it's not anymore. I don't want to maintain something every 8 seconds (or waste several globals channeling constantly) just to be put on par in terms of regen with other healers.
2. We cannot cast both of our targeted single target healing spells because they are too expensive for the amount of healing they do.
Healing sphere is our only alternative without using chi. Its HPM and HPS are great, but it is a clunky mechanic which should not be our only option. Our other option is Enveloping, which is not even worth the Chi unless only one person is taking damage - which rarely happens.
3. Our raid cooldown sucks.
In terms of numbers, it's great. But, our overall numbers are so low comparatively that it just becomes part of our rotation. It cannot be used preemptively, the debuff clearing effect rarely has a use (please do not quote this and point out the 2 fights this teir where it actually helps - notice the word rarely), and ALL it gives is HPS. Zen Meditation should be reworked. It could be a neat raid cooldown. As it stands it's a pretty powerful self cooldown in PvE that we don't necessarily need.
3a. I suggest changing Revival to function similarly to Dampen Harm.
It places a Revival buff on all raid members that reduces damage taken by 15% for 10 seconds. The next time the individual takes damage equal to or greater than 25% of their health, they are healed for XXXXXXX amount. This is much more engaging and useful.
4. Buff maintenance and lack of damage with meleeing as a Mistweaver.
One of our strengths as a healer is that we provide a DPS boost to the raid through maintaining Serpents Zeal through Blackout kicks and jabbing for chi. Unfortunately the damage is really minuscule. I got beat in damage by a Disc priest doing 90k hps on Heroic Feng using Atonement in between spamming PoH with Spirit Shell and during heavy raid damage. Why should I have to maintain buffs to do less damage and healing than other classes? A higher level of play should be rewarded.
5. Do not continue to create bastardized two and four piece bonuses.
Our set bonuses were the only set bonuses that are particularly undesirable with the exception of certain fights. You've made the spells associated with it damn near unusable. That's not cool and it really does not feel good to not be able to look forward to getting your set bonuses.
Maybe that was more of what you were looking for?
Edited by Onochang on 12/19/2012 4:12 PM PST
Disc had caught Monks before 5.1, but both were miles above other healers... Now only Disc is overpowered (our output is broken... as we can literally cast 1 spell to victory and prevent so much damage through it that other healers don't have the opportunity to heal as much as we do). Monks are in line with Holy Paladin/R.Shaman. At least Monks can be fixed through iterations, while Disc has all it's output tied to one spell that only works with good party setup and positioning.
Disc is overpowered right now, but mechanically broken (we need something besides PoH to AoE heal). Monks are still competitive in output and offer some DPS and utility (their AoE heal + dispel is nice on Tsulong for instance)... They also get to ignore mechanics that force other healers to constantly move/heal (since they are considered melee and not target by many abilities). ATM, I'd like to see a discussion about Resto Druids who are languishing much more than any healer before we worry about Monks.
90th percentile for all heroic 25man fights (1000's of samples instead of 100)
90th percentile for all heroic 10man fights
Edited by Poena on 12/19/2012 4:46 PM PST
Whats funny is disc is now out performing pre nerf monks while bringing tons of utility. I hate to see what blizzard does to them.
I imagine there are still posts from me the day Disc got a series of PoH buffs saying they weren't the answer and that we were eventually going to see a nerf that was going to make the class even worse off than it was before the buffs. So now instead of fixing the huge mechanical issues Disc has, we're going to see some heavy handed numbers nerfs that'll send us right back into uselessness.
P.S. We bring little Utility (Pain suppression is a great tank CD, but PW:B is nearly useless on nearly every fight). All we really bring is gimmick heals (bonus EH for burst damage), something a Resto Shaman can do as well as a Holy Paladin to a certain degree. Life Cocoon is easily equal to PS if not better with it's 50% increase to HoTs and ~300-400k absorption (good but different for different situations). So how exactly do we bring tons of Utility?
Edited by Poena on 12/20/2012 9:00 AM PST
renewing mist will cost 1.5% (going from 5% to 6.5%) more mana in 5.2 >.>, more nerfs to come. I think its time to reroll a new healer (yes i know we might get a buff with mastery and orbs but that was also in 5.1 patch notes and then removed ... so it mostly will be removed again too >.>). And to compensate for all these nerfs.... Blizzard buffs life cocoon like really out of everything we get that? I thinkits time to lvl my priest or pally maybe even my druid ... I know they suck just as much as monks now, but at least i enjoyed playing my druid.
I don't think that Mistweavers are broken, at least in terms of pure output. The nerfs brought them to the point where they are within about a 5% range of all other healing specs except Disc (which is ridiculously broken currently, and is almost certainly to get hit with massive nerfs soon). Mistweaver output is within range of where healing specs should be, and I would not expect any HPS buffs. Going back to pre-5.1 output levels is just not going to happen.
Utility is where you may have a case, and where I would recommend focusing MW complaints on. Life Cocoon is getting buffed, and Revitalize could use a buff. However, Mistweavers have a lot more utility than you think. For example
-The fact that fights with mechanics that do not target melee also will not target Mistweavers (because of the melee healing mechanics). This allows Mistweavers to sit in melee and completely ignore mechanics on several fights this tier (including Feng, Tsulong, Shek'zeer, Spirit Kings, Wind Lord, Blade Lord, etc) that every other healer has to deal with. You can argue that this is unfair to the other healers, especially Holy Paladins given that meleeing for mana gives them a reason to also want to me in melee range. At the very least, it's raid utility, because it allows a MW to stay still and heal in situations where every other healer would be moving.
-Mechanics with personal cooldowns that allow them to soak explosions on H Elegon without taking damage/getting stunned
-The contribution of more DPS to the raid through normal healing mechanics than any other healer.
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