I hate Blood DKs in 5 Mans (Venting)

(Locked)

90 Troll Priest
12420
Edit: I'm not hating on the spec. Like I said at the bottom, I want good DKs again like I had at the start of MoP.

I'm so tired of these squishy blood DKs bragging about their 70k DPS. My monk just hit 90 and I CAN NOT keep them alive. I gave up my resto druid and made her a tank instead because trying to gear up is so frustrating. Of course it's my fault and I get kicked because apparently it's the healers job to prevent or heal damage the tank takes. I have never seen a DK use death strike more than a few times since a few weeks after MoP. Even happened in a MSV I pugged, but he was kicked. Overall data says 80% of their healing done is from unholy strength.

Of course my priest can keep them alive unless they pull too much, but I just can't play my alts. I miss seeing good DKs who didn't even need healing. I almost wish blood boil was nerfed so they didn't spam it. :( Wtb good DKs.
Edited by Lollipop on 12/20/2012 2:39 AM PST
90 Gnome Priest
12440
That's not really a DK problem, that's a them being bad problem.
90 Troll Priest
12420
I know, but that doesn't stop me from hating them in 5 mans.
90 Tauren Shaman
0
Blood DKs have 3 different self-heals, one of which gives you a absorb shield (based on mastery) AND purgatory which you can pop Death pact for and be back to at least half health. Baddies gonna bad though, in all honesty Blood tanks should be the LEAST of your worries. Unfortunately most of them think just because they are in a tank spec they wont take massive spike damage.
wait, heroics need tanks? are we playing the same game?
90 Troll Priest
12420
While I have kept up a fury warrior 'tank', my fresh 90 monk can not.
1 Night Elf Rogue
0
I'm so tired of these squishy blood DKs bragging about their 70k DPS. My monk just hit 90 and I CAN NOT keep them alive. I gave up my resto druid and made her a tank instead because trying to gear up is so frustrating. Of course it's my fault and I get kicked because apparently it's the healers job to prevent or heal damage the tank takes. I have never seen a DK use death strike more than a few times since a few weeks after MoP. Even happened in a MSV I pugged, but he was kicked. Overall data says 80% of their healing done is from unholy strength.

Of course my priest can keep them alive unless they pull too much, but I just can't play my alts. I miss seeing good DKs who didn't even need healing. I almost wish blood boil was nerfed so they didn't spam it. :( Wtb good DKs.


You said it, they don't use their big mitigation strike....

Just do what i do and refuse to group with a certain class (paladins) because they're usually failboats. You have to remember wow is like a diverse ecosystem. There are all kinds of animals that play this game...
90 Undead Monk
13955
Yeah, I actually think unholy strength is the DPS runeforge if I remember correctly. That's kinda sad it's the only heal I usually see on recount. I intentionally flash heal them and go oom on my over-geared priest to let them know they're bad. sigh

I personally had trouble with pallies at the start of MoP. I felt like they were all squishy chain pullers. I did get 2 pally tanks in my runs, I was so lucky too. They both used sacred shield a lot AND seal of insight. One of them even used the battle healer glyph! Even pallies who don't use SS or anything special are a lot easier to heal than blood boil spamming DKs. Driving me crazy to keep getting them.
Edited by Jasmine on 12/19/2012 10:49 PM PST
90 Orc Death Knight
tys
9350
I'm so tired of these squishy blood DKs bragging about their 70k DPS. My monk just hit 90 and I CAN NOT keep them alive. I gave up my resto druid and made her a tank instead because trying to gear up is so frustrating. Of course it's my fault and I get kicked because apparently it's the healers job to prevent or heal damage the tank takes. I have never seen a DK use death strike more than a few times since a few weeks after MoP. Even happened in a MSV I pugged, but he was kicked. Overall data says 80% of their healing done is from unholy strength.

Of course my priest can keep them alive unless they pull too much, but I just can't play my alts. I miss seeing good DKs who didn't even need healing. I almost wish blood boil was nerfed so they didn't spam it. :( Wtb good DKs.


It's not a class problem - it's a player problem.

Using death strike and blood boil are not mutually exclusive. Death strike costs Frost and Unholy runes. Blood boil costs blood runes. It is true that death rune could be used for blood boil and not death strike, but without using death strike, blood dk's would be hard pressed to get the death runes to begin with.

Blood boil is necessary now for blood dks, both to refresh diseases (since compared to 4.3, Veteran of the Third War no longer reduces our Outbreak timer) and because the AOE threat on death and decay is significantly lower.

The short answer is that the blood dks you encountered did not know how to properly play the class. The other problem is that blood dk's are more "active mitigation" dependent than the other classes, with the exception of the monk. That means that the difference in performance between a bad and good blood dk will be much bigger than most other classes (with the exception again of the monk).
90 Undead Monk
13955
I know that, but I'm saying I hate seeing the ones I run into in 5 mans. I'm venting, not blaming every DK. The ones I run into in LFG straight up refuse to DS because apparently that's my job.

What I mean is, I want to get the good blood DKs who barely take damage and don't gem/reforge STR and crit.
Edited by Jasmine on 12/20/2012 1:48 AM PST
90 Troll Mage
15790
I did a dungeon yesterday and noticed the blood dk wasn't using death strike at all, I pointed this out in a respectful manner without making a big deal out of ("it heals you, puts out more dps, and keeps threat on you better, but since we aren't wiping its not a big deal") and he started to use it. I have yet to have a player when talked to respectfully refuse to take advice to improve themselves.
I love healing good blood DKs, they're heavily skill dependent though. Active mitigation and all. If I get a good blood DK in a 5-man I spend 90% of my time DPSing. But if they're bad, they're really really bad.
90 Orc Death Knight
tys
9350
I know that, but I'm saying I hate seeing the ones I run into in 5 mans. I'm venting, not blaming every DK. The ones I run into in LFG straight up refuse to DS because apparently that's my job.

What I mean is, I want to get the good blood DKs who barely take damage and don't gem/reforge STR and crit.


Strictly speaking gemming for str isn't a terrible thing now as it does convert to parry quite well.

That said, it is far from optimal for either survivability or dps. Haste will, point for point do better dps due to vengeance mechanics while allowing an increase in death strikes per minute (which while it does not solve the problem of burst damage can allow for more heals), while a stat like mastery is best for survival.

Welcome to dk tanking. We come in 2 types - the type that 75% of the time will leave you bored or the type that will leave you spamming your quick, expensive heals.

Interesting that there are threads now the complain about healers having too little to do. I'm sure if you got well played dk's only, you'd make a thread like this one:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7173837322?page=1

Similar things could be said about monk tanks.
90 Troll Priest
12420
It was just rough when I was only 440ish, it's a little easier now but I still have to spend expensive heals on DKs who can't death strike. I had one earlier in full greens tell me how easy my role was and how bad I was for being unable to keep him alive at 20 stacks on that mantid with the amber you throw. 300k life cocoon instantly gone. Not trying to blame all DKs here I actually had a very low geared one do well, he even asked me how easy he was to heal. But that's just one out of seeing DKs every other instance.

I'm glad I haven't ran into many monk tanks yet on my fresh 90. The ones I've seen lately at least use guard and never reached a red stagger. I actually gave up on monk tanking at 85 since I felt like I took too much spike damage. I had one go down to 100% to 0 while I was stunned for seconds on the first boss of Mogu'shan palace with the dog. Yes, on this character.
Edited by Lollipop on 12/22/2012 1:43 AM PST
90 Orc Death Knight
tys
9350
I did not say that you were blaming all dks - there are a lot of bad ones out there. Often simply by a simple gear check, you can already tell how a run is going to be.

If you want to, I can do some runs with you later on.

I often do runs, usually to farm for satchels.

Monk tanks though are the most vulnerable of all the tanking classes (IMO) to stuns. They are very dependent on their passive mitigation. Monk tanks that neglect to use blackout kick to keep shuffle up, purifying brew, and guard properly are incredibly fragile. They're more or less rogues with high threat. A good monk tank is incredibly potent and requires minimal healing, but the bad ones ... are really bad.

The same thing could be said about monk tanks. They come in 2 flavors. The ones that need minimal heals and the ones that well, you'll need to spam Flash Heal on.
Edited by Attackknight on 12/22/2012 1:10 PM PST
90 Pandaren Monk
15165
Adding to the above - you get bad DKs. Mine is minimally geared (460ish) and I regularly out heal my healers. Dat death strike. Keeping the mastery up and self heals makes us almost indestructible.
90 Pandaren Monk
15165
That reminded me, I had a DK a month or so ago in Scarlet Dog Pound that was insane. He had to have been cheesing the ilevel to get in, because he was mostly greens, and I barely had to heal him at all. It was amazing. I complimented him when it was done, because he was the best DK I'd ever had the pleasure of healing.

And then earlier today I got one that didn't DS once.

Not.

Once.
90 Night Elf Druid
4060
/hug
90 Troll Priest
12420
Yeah, I loved getting the tanks who out healed me. I saw a lot when I first hit 90 on this character when MoP just came out. I guess the better players leveled before the bad ones. I did have ONE who didn't use DS once during the first few weeks, I said something in party chat and the warrior got mad and kicked him lol.

It still can be a little rough on my monk when I get a bad tank, but seems like I can keep them alive most of the time now that I'm 20 ilvls higher. Nothing wrong with DKs, I just happen get more bad ones more than any other tank who complain I can't heal.
90 Orc Death Knight
tys
9350
The reason why the "good" dk's in general are gone is for 1 reason. In short - they no longer need gear from the dungeons and have moved onto raid tanking. They've done the dungeons so many times and are sick of them.
Edited by Attackknight on 12/26/2012 5:44 PM PST
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