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90 Human Warlock
13725
Not to send negative, but I think your first issue is your group structure. Having back ups for a slower progressing 10 man almost never works.

Having capable players who casually play who can fill in from time to time is probably going to be more effective than recruiting for the bench.

Best of luck though, Muradin could use some consolidation before re-expansion. Either way, I'd just check yo self before you wreck yo self.


Thing is though, this is Muradin. One of the worst off servers for raiding currently in game. You don't just find capable players who can fill in out of nowhere...Seriously, you can need 1 dps for a end-heroic raid boss on this server and nobody will answer the call. Recruiting for the bench is the only option for us(regardless of how few people are even available) besides just transferring completely...and to be fair, isn't a capable player who is willing to fill in considered a bench anyway?
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Happy Holidays!

Come shoot stuff with me for New Years!
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90 Worgen Hunter
16790
What are we shooting?
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Hmm I'm thinking dragons, maybe with a side of elemental?
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90 Goblin Warlock
4715
so elegon?
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90 Worgen Warrior
7110
I put an app in the website. Thank You for your time :D
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90 Troll Priest
11525
12/24/2012 09:00 PMPosted by Lockandlawl
and to be fair, isn't a capable player who is willing to fill in considered a bench anyway?


We have a large group of former raiders who are undergeared but both skilled and willi to fill in when we're missing a DPS or Heals. They don't play to raid and they aren't a part of any raid team so I wouldn't consider them bench players.

12/24/2012 09:00 PMPosted by Lockandlawl
Recruiting for the bench is the only option for us(regardless of how few people are even available) besides just transferring completely.


I understand why you feel it's necessary to do so, but from an outsiders viewpoint it seems like it's negative all around.

Here's the situation from my viewpoint (and feel free to correct me if this is wrong results-wise): No one really wants to sit on the bench; people play WoW to play. As a result of recruiting for the bench you're going to tend to over recruit for your 10 man. You're going to have players who don't raid as frequently as others.

As a result, the players who don't raid frequently enough with the group will fall behind on gear, experience and, consequently, their level of enjoyment will go down. This will lead to those players to either quit, move to a different guild, or cause enough drama that those actually raiding get fed up and leave. In the end, just causing the cycle to repeat.

However, I do think that recruiting for an 11th and possibly 12th player once you have a large number of kills is viable, but not early in the tier when the kills are few and the content is brand spankin' new.

Edit: This is just my personal viewpoint on the issue. It's not intended as trying to tell you what to do or what not to do. Also, it is in no way, shape, or form an attack Paramount as a guild, a group, or any of the individuals in the group.
Edited by Dazbekzul on 12/29/2012 11:06 AM PST
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90 Human Warlock
13725
I understand completely what you're trying to say, and we are making adjustments to hopefully stabilize our group. Paramount has hardly had any progression due to people's schedule's changing and not being able to show up on raid nights. We would have just pulled from group 2, but we found that to be unfair as group 2 wants to raid just as much as group 1 does, so the only other option was hoping someone would be online in guild that would be willing to fill in, or try to find someone in trade (borderline impossible).

As a solution, we are going to be having 1 group again, but with 15 raiders instead of 10. Depending on who needs gear from a specific encounter/raid and whether or not someone can show up or not, people will be switching out each week as needed. And we're hoping that with our transfer to Proudmoore we'll be able to recruit a few more people to fill some of the roles we're lacking in or will be needing. This way, we should at least be raiding every week...which hasn't been a thing since early 5.0 for us lol.
Edited by Lockandlawl on 12/29/2012 3:57 PM PST
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90 Human Warlock
4525
12/29/2012 01:01 PMPosted by Lockandlawl
And we're hoping that with our transfer to Proudmoore we'll be able to recruit a few more people to fill some of the roles we're lacking in or will be needing.


Lol Proudmoore. Why go to that server? There are alot better guilds on Proudmoore than Paramount. That leads to the question...Why would anybody join Paramount? It seems to me that Nabelmar wants to keep what little power she has left. If you people honestly wanted to solve this problem, You would merge with somebody else. It was even Nabels' idea, you should put it into action. You do want to solve this problem, i can tell. You just don't want to lose the power/authority. If you guys want to turn on the attention vacuum and hop to Proudmoore, do it (lul trust me idc). However, you won't be solving the problem on Muradin. Chances are, you won't even be solving the problem for yourselves. (again, not that i care. Just offering my splendid advice.).

For the record, not everybody from Paramount is going to follow you.
Edited by Seal on 12/29/2012 3:51 PM PST
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90 Human Warlock
13725
What kind of power are you talking about Seal? Proudmoore is a very well progressed server, and has a very high alliance population, which is what we were looking for. If you think this is about attention, keep in mind this is Muradin that we're currently on...We're going from the 200th to the 36th realm on progression. I doubt anyone will even notice we came over...If we really cared about keeping some kind of ego that you think we have for ourselves, we would stay on Muradin.

Obviously not everyone from Paramount is going to follow us. But after some discussion, all but maybe 1 or 2 of our raiders will be coming with us. We're hoping some other members will come with, even if they don't raid, but that's up to them. Nobody's making anyone spend a dime on this.
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90 Human Warlock
4525
What kind of power are you talking about Seal? Proudmoore is a very well progressed server, and has a very high alliance population, which is what we were looking for. If you think this is about attention, keep in mind this is Muradin that we're currently on...We're going from the 200th to the 36th realm on progression. I doubt anyone will even notice we came over...If we really cared about keeping some kind of ego that you think we have for ourselves, we would stay on Muradin.

Obviously not everyone from Paramount is going to follow us. But after some discussion, all but maybe 1 or 2 of our raiders will be coming with us. We're hoping some other members will come with, even if they don't raid, but that's up to them. Nobody's making anyone spend a dime on this.


What's stopping somebody from Paramount from joining a better guild? Is your bond THAT strong? By hopping to Proudmoore, you're making yourselves low tier. My point is, why would anybody join your guild in contrast to one on Proudmoore that obviously does better than yours? You're not offering anything to anybody on Proudmoore. My point is, you're better off on Muradin (as a guild).

Edit: Unless your goal is to be a stepping stone... to gear up players, then have them gquit on you to join a better guild?
Edited by Seal on 12/29/2012 4:02 PM PST
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90 Human Warlock
13725
Most of our raiders have been together on a team since this guild was created. We're all very close friends who raid to have fun. But lately we haven't been able to raid for reasons that have already been explained. If you think any of us are going to leave just to join a higher progressed guild, you really have not taken any time to try and understand us. This has nothing to do with power or attention, it's about keeping our raid nights stable so everyone can still have fun and progress together. And we can only do that by actually having options, instead of just hoping everyone shows up each week and calling it a night when they don't.
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90 Human Warlock
13725
12/29/2012 03:59 PMPosted by Seal
Unless your goal is to be a stepping stone... to gear up players, then have them gquit on you to join a better guild?


This is an understandable assumption, and it's possible it'll happen. But, actually having the option to recruit new players and pug from trade once in a while is better than calling raid nights every week because one role is missing. It's just no fun to try and raid on Muradin anymore. At least for us.
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90 Human Warlock
4525
12/29/2012 04:07 PMPosted by Lockandlawl
Most of our raiders have been together on a team since this guild was created. We're all very close friends who raid to have fun. But lately we haven't been able to raid for reasons that have already been explained. If you think any of us are going to leave just to join a higher progressed guild, you really have not taken any time to try and understand us. This has nothing to do with power or attention, it's about keeping our raid nights stable so everyone can still have fun and progress together. And we can only do that by actually having options, instead of just hoping everyone shows up each week and calling it a night when they don't.


I don't think you read my post. Nobody is going to join Paramount that wasn't already in Paramount over a more highly progressed guild. There's no point. The only candidates you really have a shot at, are people with no gear at all, and like i said they will use you as a stepping stone once they're geared. Paramount offers nothing to a newcomer, especially on Proudmoore. Yeah you guys already IN paramount have fun blah blah. That's irrelevant to an applicant.
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90 Human Warlock
13725
Read the post directly above your last one. It's an appropriate response. I probably replied as you were typing your response, so it wasn't loaded.
Edited by Lockandlawl on 12/29/2012 4:34 PM PST
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90 Human Warlock
4525
12/29/2012 04:23 PMPosted by Lockandlawl
Read the post directly above your last one. It's an appropriate response. I probably replied as you were typing your response, so it wasn't loaded.


Ah, trade chat pugs. Something i didn't think about. Carry on.
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On the whole bench thing...there comes a point where it's better to sit the bench in a guild that is at least active and has fun members to do raid finders and 5mans with and sometimes get to go into raid than it is to keep bashing your head against trying to recruit for your own guild or having to put up with what are imo unfair loot practices toward pugs when you CAN find a pug here.

I'd rather bench here and get to hang with Tati, lock, super, and scy (and all the other totally awesome peeps!) than keep doing what I was doing before I got accepted here.
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90 Goblin Warlock
11685
Good luck on your transfer! I hope everything goes smoother for you all in the future.
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Maybe the reason you guys dont raid is because you guys only want to raid with yourselves and not outsiders. I asked to join and you guys said i can be backup tank, but im rank 1 muradin warrior :D
Edited by Reckd on 12/29/2012 8:39 PM PST
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90 Goblin Warlock
4715
I don't understand your theory on having 15 raiders on a core team, and having them sit out fights so others can come in? Why not just have the same 10 people with like 1-2 backups incase some thing comes up where someone cannot make it. I dont see the point in 15 players and having certain people sit out every week and others coming in. I know as a raider it would make me upset/disspointed. I know this sounds self centered, but i dont see the logic in it.
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