Needed RET Changes for 5.2

90 Human Warlock
5225
12/27/2012 01:27 AMPosted by Polyxo
Wasn't it mentioned a while ago that Censure was bugged in pvp and was hitting for like 1/5th the damage its supposed to? I really haven't heard any changes about this.


Not just censure. All HoL damage.
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90 Human Paladin
4355
Hand of purity will be a nice addition in 5.2 so minor buff.
Eternal flames HoT affect is 100% more healing.

Paladins did not need a buff in 5.2, and hammers does hit hard. 60-70k hammers with cds popped is not big enough for you? if we were running around hitting 100k with hammers we would be called OP. censure does fine enough damage to tick away at his hp before you burst him down. And fix our mastery? are you kidding thats constently my top damaging ability in lfr and heroics, mastry is fine.

Classes ranked above us in the tier list were nerfed and our now on par with us, classes were bad and got buffed now there on par with us. 5.2 will be a great patch! We will be able to take on any class and not feel at a disidvantage.
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90 Human Paladin
5545
You obviously haven't pvped at all as a ret since the healing nerfs...
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90 Human Paladin
16210
12/26/2012 08:13 PMPosted by Ravicana
I think HoW is suffering the same fate warrior Execute did, back during WotLK: since you can circumvent the health requirement (via Sudden Death for arms, via Wings for ret), it can't hit too hard, because being able to open with a full-strength execute is kiiiinda unfair. One way around that would be to increase its damage only when the target is in execute range, but the other method - and the one they favored for Execute - is to remove the ability to work around the requirement. So, in a way, I think AW allowing the use of HoW is kind of a bad thing for the spec.


This is exactly what is happening and something that was pointed out numerous times pre-Cata. It is what led directly to the loss of the +60% crit talent on HoW partway through the last expansion.

Personally I think they should split the difference. Make HoW an autocrit against targets at or below 20% health for Ret and Prot paladins, otherwise leave it as is. This prevents Holy from having an Execute (as of now, HoW is more like a CS you can use at range under certain conditions or a bonus Exorcism), and increases the hitting power of the move so it can do what it was initially supposed to do without making it overpowered when used out the gate on a fresh target.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9715
The purpose of this post in regards to Hammer of Wrath is that its SHOULD be more of an execute than it currently is. If anyone remembers in BC and WoTLK it was entirely and execute mechanic. Did not build holy power and was not usable during wings. If you got someone below 20% and got a HoW off it was very likely that you were going to land a kill. Much more so than it currently is. Holy prism and exorcism both do more damage most the time. They can take away it generating holy power for all I care. I am not saying it needs to hit as hard as warrior execute does . . . but if it is going to be and execute type mechanic then other spells should not take priority over it when the target is below 20%.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9715
12/27/2012 03:51 AMPosted by Facèroll
Paladins did not need a buff in 5.2, and hammers does hit hard. 60-70k hammers with cds popped is not big enough for you? if we were running around hitting 100k with hammers we would be called OP. censure does fine enough damage to tick away at his hp before you burst him down. And fix our mastery? are you kidding thats constently my top damaging ability in lfr and heroics, mastry is fine.


I love how people post on a forum without reading the topic of the post . . . I specifically stated that if they buffed hammer of wrath for targets below 20% that they would have to nerf its damage while Avenging Wrath is active.

Read the post , comprehend it, think about what you are gunna say before you post something that makes you look like a moron.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
5195
so does dispatch.I suppose thats not a exacute either..
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
5195
Your the dumbass who does not seem to know wtf a execute is sooo....
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90 Draenei Paladin
2795
Increasing censure damage would fix the sustained dps gimpness of Ret in PvE...I hear that ret can't really heal well in PvP, so whatever blizz needs to do to fix that then I say go for it.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7060
12/26/2012 06:59 PMPosted by Paladinww
Hammer of wrath is not a execute and it is a move that happens to have a requirement of having the target below 20% health to use.


it is an execute. What are you saying?
It's an execute that doesn't EXECUTE the target.
Edited by Angelista on 12/30/2012 3:09 PM PST
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90 Human Monk
5880
I think Crusader Strike, Templars Verdict and Judgment all need their damage buffed by 10%. Then I think Paladins will be ok. Warriors, Mages, Warlocks and Hunters all still need to be toned down.
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90 Tauren Paladin
13945
They should make hammer of wrath function like drain soul, where it has a multiplier when the target is under 20%, but using it above 20% (during wings) would make it hit for its normal amount.
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90 Draenei Paladin
13225
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/t3733fsgoo8t38hm/details/5/?s=6266&e=6806

how is HoW crit avg not even close to double the non-crit avg? all the other spells have a good almost 2* distance between hit damage and crit damage, but not HoW?

12/30/2012 04:48 PMPosted by Halfcalf
They should make hammer of wrath function like drain soul, where it has a multiplier when the target is under 20%, but using it above 20% (during wings) would make it hit for its normal amount.
immagining all the pallys saving CDs for 20% and getting HoW for 1m
Edited by Tharna on 12/30/2012 6:36 PM PST
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
HoW data is likely skewed from being used under Wings more than any other ability; that particular parse's discrepancy probably means no HoW crits occurred with Wings up.
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90 Draenei Paladin
13225
12/30/2012 06:36 PMPosted by Grôgnárd
HoW data is likely skewed from being used under Wings more than any other ability; that particular parse's discrepancy probably means no HoW crits occurred with Wings up.
i'd like to believe that, but it's like that for the entire raid.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
I really do think it's just a case of bad RNG in not getting HoW to crit with Wings up. I'd like to use my current Recount data to help justify my claim, but it's skewed in that I was lagging horribly through the whole dungeon, it's five-man data and not raid data so it's absent potentially meaningful buffs, and my better crit and four-piece means I have a greater chance of popping a HoW crit under Wings.

Bit of math, though:
Avg HoW crit: 123014
- Size of base crit for avg (Avg HoW crit / 2): 62057

Avg HoW hit: 88990
- Size of base hit removing Wings (Avg HoW hit - [Avg HoW hit * .2]): 71192


So not quite what I supposed, it seems. Though, looking at your gear, the procs from Lei Shen's and Dancing Steel coupled with the on-use of the Darkmaster could make up that 10k discrepancy. But that would further push things over to the realm of bad luck with no crits, even with procs, and that does seem extremely unlikely even though statistically possible. Frankly, I'm stumped; maybe take it over to EJ and see what the superior number-crunchers have to say about it?
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12/30/2012 04:48 PMPosted by Halfcalf
They should make hammer of wrath function like drain soul, where it has a multiplier when the target is under 20%, but using it above 20% (during wings) would make it hit for its normal amount.
All it needs is to auto-crit when used in execute range. This matches our post-killing blow healing effect (auto-crit FoL), and the way it used to work (where HoW had a huge hit chance).
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8355


I believe they fixed this problem in the most recent patch. I heard Vanguards talking about it in his stream.

Anyone know for sure?


Did they? I haven't checked recently. If it's been fixed, great.


I'm fairly certain they fixed this. I've noticed it in recount over the past few weeks.
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90 Gnome Rogue
6855

2.) FIX HAMMER OF WRATH - This ability was intended as and execute and still operates as one but does HORRIBLE DAMAGE (outside of wings / Holy avenger) when compared to Kill Shot, Execute and other similar abilities.


and compared to . . . (what was it called) . . . shadowburn? last night i think one of those hit my pally for 202k.
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