In Raids, Resto Shaman, not so hot

90 Pandaren Shaman
6180
I figured out that I can take my combat log, edit it for size and then import that into the World of Logs site. I can see how I perform, but better yet I can look at what other resto shamans are doing to get the high hps. Using people's profile from battle net I can see how folks gear themselves. I use askmrrobot and wowreforge to work my gear. I have tried a half dozen variations, some from mrrobot and some through brute force and awkwardness. I use both skada and recount and I set one for over heal and the other for HPS and %healing of total. Yet, I am still falling behind in Raids.

I encounter a lot of players who are stuck on data addon's numbers. Many cold and cutting folks in the game, who will kick a person out for not meeting the expected numbers.

And now with MOP I feel like good tanks have awesome damage mitigation that a tank does about a 1/4 of the healing. Beware the bigmouth who notices that in a run.

Then, looking at simucraft data on classes in raid fights, it looks like resto shaman and elemental shaman are the not-so-hot specs. Yet, I see in WOL that there are resto shamans who do awesome.

I ran my profile in simucraft and it says I should be putting out twice as much as I am.

Cheese and Rice!

How do I bring up my HPS? Understanding that HPS is really a poor measure of one's performance, I want to know what I got to do to make a solid and consistent hps somewhere above where I am and below what simucraft says is the ideal. By the charts!

Does it come down to always casting with perfect precision and never stopping??
Edited by Pacshee on 1/2/2013 11:29 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
It's very hard to help you when you don't post any logs. I tried to find some under your guild on World of Logs, but there was no entry under your guild's name.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
6180
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/okiiuqgsrtje23ul/

My apologies. Changed servers recently. Here is my TOES run today.
Edited by Pacshee on 1/3/2013 12:44 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
LOL.

You're overhealing encounters with two Disc Priests and two Paladins. There's no way to snipe when you have that kind of comp.

I notice these are LFR logs. In LFR, there's very little TO heal. The logs that you're looking at where Resto Shaman are shining are logs where everyone is spending a lot of time below 70% health. Your Mastery doesn't really kick in until people drop below 80% health, and if you're in a raid with mitigation healers (i.e. Disc Priests and Holy Paladins), it's going to be very difficult for you to get any healing in edgewise when you're overhealing encounters.

With that said, is Crit somehow way more awesome than Mastery now? I notice you're reforging out of almost 1000 Mastery and 1269 Haste to...Crit? Why not keep that Haste to hit the Earthliving Weapon Haste break (you really want 12.5% Haste) and keep the Mastery to have beefier heals when the raid needs them?
Edited by Tiriél on 1/3/2013 1:59 AM PST
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91 Pandaren Monk
8130
He's running AS, meaning with 5% raid buff he'll be over the haste required for that ELW tick. The common "specs" or haste reforges, are 817 w/ AS, 2018 w/ EM (because, frankly, one more tick on ELW isn't all too much extra healing), or 3800 w/AS (for HTT)

Assuming you're in farm content, crit outperforms mastery because of mana returns, smart heals from crits (sniping), and being more powerful for throughput than mastery on casted heals until 50%~, and other heals around 70%~. Depending on spell selection and how low the raid is most of the time, crit can overtake mastery.
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22 Gnome Warrior
80
If you want to throw healing ROLES out the window and focus only on the healing METER, then you need to play your resto shaman as a healing sniper and live with big overhealing numbers.

Resto are masters of big raid damage and/or tank healing. That means that on some fights, if you are doing what you are supposed to be doing, you will be high on the meters. On other fights that are more about constant, low damage and dealing with mechanics, your mastery is going to leave you at the bottom.

There is literally nothing you can do with just reforging that is going to suddenly shoot your HPS through the roof. Learn the boss encounters and figure out if it is a tank healing fight or a raid healing fight and heal accordingly and you will be topping charts even in blue gear.
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90 Troll Shaman
13250
01/03/2013 01:57 AMPosted by Tiriél
Why not keep that Haste to hit the Earthliving Weapon Haste break (you really want 12.5% Haste)


Because more than 50% of your elw tends to go to overheal anyway.

Advice to the OP, don't worry about your hps. If people are alive then everything is okay. I heal with two priests and two paladins so sometimes there just isn't as much to heal. I find my satisfaction when the tank is about to die and i hit him with a 400k+ghw. Does that really show up on the overall meters? Nope. Does that save your group from a wipe? Bet your a** it does.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
Don't worry about the healing meters, especially not in LFR. That healer makeup was extremely unfavorable to you.

That being said. Your ES uptime could be better. I prefer UF over Primal Elementalist, even with PE you only used one elemental. (Could have used fire and earth in these fights.) HST use could be better. You never used Ascendance at all.

Ancestral Vigor uptime is really low, which suggests to me that you're not just healing all the time. You should just be healing constantly on the tank with Earth shield. Keep Riptide up on him and cast HW and you'll snipe heals and see your HPS improve dramatically. This is one of my favorite things to do in LFR. Let the other silly shamans run themselves out of mana by casting healing rain over and over whether it's needed or not, and keep my almost neutral mana RT->HW spam going on the tanks. Then I have unlimited mana for when the poop does hit the fan and the same silly shamans are foolishly reaching for Mana Tide when they are at 30% mana and I'm at 80% - which benefits me all the more.

I'm also really aggressive with Healing Tide, I cast it pretty much any time there's more than 5 ppl with less than 50% health and then I totemic recall it asap so the CD is much shorter and I have it again. :3

*snipes*
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/03/2013 03:00 AMPosted by Astråios
Assuming you're in farm content, crit outperforms mastery because of mana returns, smart heals from crits (sniping), and being more powerful for throughput than mastery on casted heals until 50%~, and other heals around 70%~. Depending on spell selection and how low the raid is most of the time, crit can overtake mastery.


The logs he posted are from LFR. With two Disc Priests, two Holy Paladins, and a Holy Priest. He's last because there's literally nothing to heal. And with two Disc Priests AND two Paladins, there's no way to snipe anything.
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91 Pandaren Monk
8130
I merely provided a potential reasoning for choosing crit over mastery, and if most of what you do is overgearing normals or LFR's, then crit is likely superior to mastery.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17065
With that said, is Crit somehow way more awesome than Mastery now? I notice you're reforging out of almost 1000 Mastery and 1269 Haste to...Crit?


It might be if he is running LFRs, especially with multiple disc priests. Sounds like a recipe for folks' health rarely being low. Having said that, the people that aggressively reforge out of mastery are nuts, imo.
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90 Tauren Shaman
15790
01/03/2013 01:49 PMPosted by Taymage
Having said that, the people that aggressively reforge out of mastery are nuts, imo.


Crit is the higher throughput stat on average. People who don't want to gimp themselves are nuts?
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/03/2013 04:09 PMPosted by Convictfish
Having said that, the people that aggressively reforge out of mastery are nuts, imo.


Crit is the higher throughput stat on average. People who don't want to gimp themselves are nuts?


*looks up Sensations' character sheet*

Nope, I'm sticking with what he does. Mastery all the way.
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90 Draenei Monk
11920
So mastery is the go to stat because one person reforges for it? Mastery and Crit are both very strong stats for restoration shamans. They both have advantages and disadvantages, and therefore there is no real correct answer between them. Mastery might be ideal for one fight, while crit shines on another fight.

Crit outdoes Mastery in throughput on targets above 50% health. On targets below 50% health, mastery is going to do more for you... Mastery is also much more reliable, and definitely is the stat you want to depend on when it comes to saving low health targets. However when it comes down to in general raid healing, things like healing rain and riptide tick quite often, and therefore the randomness factor of crit is not such a big deal.

The big thing that crit does for you is provide a second source of mana regeneration with resurgence. Healing Wave actually returns more mana than the cost of the spell if you crit with it. Something that mastery does not provide for you, which is one reason why crit rating is sought after by so many shamans now.
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90 Draenei Priest
6975
I'm honestly a little shocked that Tiriel, of all people, would admit to blindly copying others, even if only jokingly.
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
Crit is actually a stronger stat than Mastery even for most progression content. The math has been done on Life in Group 5 and on Elitist Jerks, but when looking at throughput alone, Mastery only becomes better than Crit when you are healing a target that is at about 65% health or lower for AoE heals that do not proc Ancestral Awakening (for the most part everything except single target direct heals) and 35% health for single target direct heals. You have to consider what percentage of your spells are actually landing on targets below those thresholds. I suspect that in 25 man, in 99% of cases, Crit is going to beat Mastery for pure throughput. Even in heroic modes, people generally don't sit below 65% health for a sustained period of time. If you're running with a lot of absorb based healers (Disc Priests and to a less extent Holy Paladins), they sit at the lower health threshold even less often. 10 mans may be different, but I see no reason to stack Mastery in a 25 man raid, regardless of healer comp or difficulty. The thresholds were higher in Cata, which made Mastery more attractive, but it's really a fairly weak secondary now.

On top of that, the 65%/35% thresholds are throughput alone. Crit also provides a boost to regen through Resurgence. Taking an average AoE healing heavy fight (Heroic Shek'zeer) - Resurgence accounted for about 3285 mp5. This is with about 24% raid buffed Crit. This directly scales, making each 1% crit worth around 140 mp5, which is a fairly nice secondary bonus. Because of the regen bonus, the 65%/35% thresholds for Mastery to overtake Crit are probably closer to 60%/30% or 55%/25%.

For 25 man, my basic recommendation unless you have a very real reason to go with Mastery would be

Spirit > Int > Crit > Mastery > Haste

You would need to spec Ancestral Swiftness to not have to reforge into more than the basic minimum amount of haste, which I also would recommend.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/03/2013 09:41 PMPosted by Dysrhythmia
I'm honestly a little shocked that Tiriel, of all people, would admit to blindly copying others, even if only jokingly.


Mastery has always been (well, past the first few weeks of Cataclysm) THE go-to stat for a Shaman tackling progression content. By definition, when you're working on progression, you're generally a) undergeared and b) unfamiliar with the things to do to down the boss. People take more damage, in general, when you are learning a fight. And because you generally have less health (due to a lower level of gear), damage is more "intense," as I'm sure you're aware.

In the same way that a Disc Priest provides an invaluable benefit to his or her raid by creating effective health, a Shaman provides an invaluable benefit to his or her raid by both providing extra health and having a Mastery that makes their heals hit harder when they're actually needed.

Note, we're not talking about LFR content here, where the only time you see health bars dip is if a) most (or all) of your healers are afk or b) people deliberately seek out things to damage them (and even then it's not that heavy of damage).

I want you to take a look at something:

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-bwwyhrs8pxnt7uy8/sum/healingDone/ (#1 world parse)
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-xs1l0c2hl8r9u3q0/sum/healingDone/?s=11614&e=12027 (#2 world parse)
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-bwwyhrs8pxnt7uy8/sum/healingDone/?s=1853&e=2214 (#3 world parse)
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-bwwyhrs8pxnt7uy8/sum/healingDone/?s=3289&e=3711 (#3 world parse)
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-z982r1kpn0j42t38/sum/healingDone/?s=2782&e=3390 (#5 world parse)

I could go on.

It wasn't "blindly following" anyone. When I see someone make a statement that makes no sense to me given what I know to be true about Shaman (due to maining a Shaman from Wrath of the Lich King until mid-Cataclysm), I scratch my head and go seek out people who are currently maining a Shaman and doing an extraordinarily fantastic job to see what they are doing. I defy you to tell me that looking to Sensations for Shaman advice is a "bad" idea.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Crit is actually a stronger stat than Mastery even for most progression content. The math has been done on Life in Group 5 and on Elitist Jerks, but when looking at throughput alone, Mastery only becomes better than Crit when you are healing a target that is at about 65% health or lower for AoE heals that do not proc Ancestral Awakening (for the most part everything except single target direct heals) and 35% health for single target direct heals. You have to consider what percentage of your spells are actually landing on targets below those thresholds. I suspect that in 25 man, in 99% of cases, Crit is going to beat Mastery for pure throughput. Even in heroic modes, people generally don't sit below 65% health for a sustained period of time. If you're running with a lot of absorb based healers (Disc Priests and to a less extent Holy Paladins), they sit at the lower health threshold even less often. 10 mans may be different, but I see no reason to stack Mastery in a 25 man raid, regardless of healer comp or difficulty. The thresholds were higher in Cata, which made Mastery more attractive, but it's really a fairly weak secondary now.

On top of that, the 65%/35% thresholds are throughput alone. Crit also provides a boost to regen through Resurgence. Taking an average AoE healing heavy fight (Heroic Shek'zeer) - Resurgence accounted for about 3285 mp5. This is with about 24% raid buffed Crit. This directly scales, making each 1% crit worth around 140 mp5, which is a fairly nice secondary bonus. Because of the regen bonus, the 65%/35% thresholds for Mastery to overtake Crit are probably closer to 60%/30% or 55%/25%.

For 25 man, my basic recommendation unless you have a very real reason to go with Mastery would be

Spirit > Int > Crit > Mastery > Haste

You would need to spec Ancestral Swiftness to not have to reforge into more than the basic minimum amount of haste, which I also would recommend.


Much of what you're saying about Mastery being ineffective entirely depends on a) your strat and b) how badly you're underhealing the content. If you're having DPS issues and can't get past an enrage, the only choice most guilds will make is to start dropping healers. When I was raiding heroic 25 man content on my Shaman, I can assure you that people's health stayed low for extended periods of time, because we were severely underhealing the content due to DPS issues.
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90 Draenei Priest
6975
Actually, I agree about mastery being the go-to for progression, and I'm sorry if I was antagonistic.

Crit is still a fantastic stat for resto, but I agree that it's more useful for farm/easy content where damage is lower or more easily avoidable. Having said that, it's probably not worth reforging for it.

However, I think it's more important to actually acknowledge each side of the argument instead of just writing off crit as a non-optimal stat since that's not helpful to anyone (and depending on the situation, not correct).
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