5.2 lol

90 Troll Shaman
5315
Hpal are doin the best right now and in 5.2 they are getting buffed while they nerf druids lol.

What are you doin to heals blizz.

and they nerf resto shamans even more.
Edited by Zyzx on 12/22/2012 1:46 AM PST
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100 Tauren Shaman
HC
17675
what?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8850
Which version of patch notes were you looking at? lol

Hpal are doing the best? LOL
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90 Worgen Druid
12130
Nerfing resto druids? Looks like some buffs to me, at least the pve stuff.

9% mana reduction on rejuv is nice. Too bad they can't overbuff it, with one of their typical 50-75% changes, but 9% is still very nice.

Nature's vigil.. I actually like the change, because it makes for less paying attention on my part. Before, I didn't want to macro it to tranq or tree, in case I needed it for one or the other, but now I can put it on both. Assuming it's off the gcd.. (is it? I never paid much attention).

So, some small druid buffs. We'll see how that turns out. It's kind of annoying that pvp impacts my talents, with the typhoon change, but I only really use it on three fights anyways.
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
The only buffs that holy pallies are getting is 10% damage reduction being added to Hand of Purity and Eternal Flame healing for double when cast on themselves. Their output is also only about middle of the pack.

PvE resto shaman are not getting nerfed in any way. The only change that is likely to be significant to PvE is Elemental Mastery being changed to a 1 minute instead of 2 minute CD, likely making it overtake Ancestral Swiftness as the strongest Resto talent that tier. I guess the Purge glyph change can be seen as a PvP nerf, but none of the other changes are likely to affect us at all so far.

Healing overall should be more balanced. Removing Disc mastery from Spirit Shell should work out to about a 10% Disc throughput nerf, making them less ridiculously ahead of the other specs than they are now. I still don't think it's going to be enough given that the delta is more like 20-25%; Disc is going to need to be nerfed further. What is particularly egregious is that they actually buffed Rapture to 250% to compensate for taking away the interaction with Mana Tide and other short term Spirit buffs. They in no way needed compensation for that; it should have been a flat out regen nerf.
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90 Draenei Monk
17435
The only buffs that holy pallies are getting is 10% damage reduction being added to Hand of Purity and Eternal Flame healing for double when cast on themselves. Their output is also only about middle of the pack.

PvE resto shaman are not getting nerfed in any way. The only change that is likely to be significant to PvE is Elemental Mastery being changed to a 1 minute instead of 2 minute CD, likely making it overtake Ancestral Swiftness as the strongest Resto talent that tier. I guess the Purge glyph change can be seen as a PvP nerf, but none of the other changes are likely to affect us at all so far.

Healing overall should be more balanced. Removing Disc mastery from Spirit Shell should work out to about a 10% Disc throughput nerf, making them less ridiculously ahead of the other specs than they are now. I still don't think it's going to be enough given that the delta is more like 20-25%; Disc is going to need to be nerfed further. What is particularly egregious is that they actually buffed Rapture to 250% to compensate for taking away the interaction with Mana Tide and other short term Spirit buffs. They in no way needed compensation for that; it should have been a flat out regen nerf.

Yep everything you said.

The HPal changes seem pretty reasonable to me, and I'm glad to see Shaman talents are being given more appeal.

I agree with everything you said about Disc. I've been of the belief that SS did need a slight nerf, and that's what it's getting, however as I've understood it, the Divine Aegis buff was the big culprit to Disc's crazy throughput. And yes, unlinking MTT from Rapture is really needed, but buffing Rapture because of that is incredibly unnecessary.
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90 Orc Shaman
15810
With regards to the mastery scaling, I guess we all expected it - I know I was calling this out a few weeks ago though people were giving me flak for it. I know some were claiming you cap out on spirit shells, but this is only true in a 10 man if you do 3+ casts on each group (obviously if you cast more than 3 on one group, it will cap out, but why are you doing this?). Of course if you get lucky crits, then it can be done in 3 casts, but that isn't exactly reliable.

The spirit shell nerf is more of a check for future tiers where discipline priests will swarm in high amounts of mastery. Just look at the formula for how spirit shell is cast and it makes sense. You might argue that we will cap out there because of the higher mastery, but consdier how disproportionally our maximum health rises up as well with each gear.

Just looking at how my holy paladin who is 18 ilvls than my resto shaman, I have 47k (!) less health than him. Now consider how I am no where near BiS and how a discipline priest maximum health will increase just as the intellect / mastery does and it becomes harder and harder to cap shields. Thus, a nerf was in order for it.

Also no way is blizzard going to keep elemental mastery on 30% spell haste (maybe it will become 30% melee haste). expect a 30% spell haste / 10 sec or 15% spell for 20 sec nerf to go along with the 1 minute cd. Shaman will reach the +3 Healing rain breakpoint easily next tier and if we get two healing rains every minute (if needed) with +3 ticks each time (and if our mana can sustain it), its just not going to work out or balanced.

Basically agree with rapture.

EDIT - just read the changes. you know they nerfed it but they fixed it partially at the same time. Spirit shell is currently a .3 modifier from DA, not the .5 that it SHOULD be. That will at least make the shields equivalent to what a PoH cast is so, a little bit of clarification.
Edited by Gardiff on 12/22/2012 5:48 AM PST
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3 Night Elf Druid
0
druids still rule
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90 Night Elf Druid
10380
From a pvp standpoint i dont like the changes to druid at all...

If there going to add 10sec to typhoon they should make it a stronger knock back, we have the weakest of the 3 knock backs, and its not a 360* knock back..

Displacer beast no longer puts you into prowl?? There will be no reason to pick Displacer over Wild Charge. Wild Charge will by far better then Displacer.. The main thing about displacer is we had a chance to blink to a target and get a quick pounce. Or just making the other team to drop target for a second, but any dot or bleed pulled us right back out. With no prowl i think it kinda defeats the purpose of the whole spell... You basically get 4 different blinks from Wild Charge on half the CD of displacer.

There going to change NV, but leave HotW alone?? really! So cut NV in half with cds and power, but leave HotW alone at a 6min cd??

Symbiosis has a 6sec cd? Why, for what? Change something worth changing!

Treants do more dmg but are still only out for 15sec. When you summon treants they spend 3sec running to you. Then it takes them 4-5 more sec chasing your enemy. you end up with pets casting 2 cast and going away.... I want my old treants back! I want to be able to cast treants on a rogue running away, and them sitting on them with melee! Not running around trying to get los of people!

Maybe this is allot of !@#$%ing before i even try the stuff out, but allot of it doesnt make sense to me!
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100 Human Paladin
9985
From a pvp standpoint i dont like the changes to druid at all...



Displacer beast no longer puts you into prowl?? There will be no reason to pick Displacer over Wild Charge. Wild Charge will by far better then Displacer.. The main thing about displacer is we had a chance to blink to a target and get a quick pounce. Or just making the other team to drop target for a second, but any dot or bleed pulled us right back out. With no prowl i think it kinda defeats the purpose of the whole spell...


And chain cyclone immediately after the un-counterable prowl stun for a nice lengthy un-counterable chain of cc every 30 seconds. It needed to never make it into live. Seriously resto druids have nothing to complain about.

Now if they'll just take purge and ram it up some shaman's !@# I'd be a little more content, but all things aside healing in PVP is pretty much useless ATM anyway.
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100 Undead Priest
TSP
14610
Holy priests are demonstrably and clearly the lowest performing, most non-viable healing spec for PvP...

... and so far they get no changes for 5.2.

No PvE adjustments either despite being significantly behind Discipline in throughput.
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100 Undead Priest
TSP
14610
12/22/2012 09:48 AMPosted by Vaega
Now if they'll just take purge and ram it up some shaman's !@# I'd be a little more content, but all things aside healing in PVP is pretty much useless ATM anyway.


Given the changes to increased self-heals for dps, eliminated damage mitiation talents for healers (though they've given Force of Will back to Discipline ... but not Blessed Resilience back to Holy priest), and expanded cc that were brought into MoP...

... I wonder if it wasn't Blizzard's intention all along to take healing classes out of PvP.
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90 Night Elf Druid
10380
12/22/2012 09:48 AMPosted by Vaega
And chain cyclone immediately after the un-counterable prowl stun for a nice lengthy un-counterable chain of cc every 30 seconds. It needed to never make it into live. Seriously resto druids have nothing to complain about.


Its is counterable, if there is another druid on your team FF and you cant prowl, if not keep a dot or bleed on them and it will pull them out as fast as they went into stealth. You have to be perfect with the range to get a pounce off with a bleed or dot up. Cyclone is counterable, dont let them cast it, Move los, or reflect it. You just cant take it off if you fail to counter it.
Edited by Dingkinghobo on 12/23/2012 2:01 AM PST
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90 Troll Druid
15435
From a pvp standpoint i dont like the changes to druid at all...



Displacer beast no longer puts you into prowl?? There will be no reason to pick Displacer over Wild Charge. Wild Charge will by far better then Displacer.. The main thing about displacer is we had a chance to blink to a target and get a quick pounce. Or just making the other team to drop target for a second, but any dot or bleed pulled us right back out. With no prowl i think it kinda defeats the purpose of the whole spell...


And chain cyclone immediately after the un-counterable prowl stun for a nice lengthy un-counterable chain of cc every 30 seconds. It needed to never make it into live. Seriously resto druids have nothing to complain about.

Now if they'll just take purge and ram it up some shaman's !@# I'd be a little more content, but all things aside healing in PVP is pretty much useless ATM anyway.


While I can stand behind the Displacer Beast change (even if it now becomes almost useless over charge in so many situations), adding a Cyclone DR on everything but my mom is ... I don't know. I'm no pvp expert. However it seems pretty damn harsh. Brings down synergy of a druid down to very few comps (RLD, WLD, maybe few feral comps) ...
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1 Gnome Warlock
0
Holy priests are demonstrably and clearly the lowest performing, most non-viable healing spec for PvP...

... and so far they get no changes for 5.2.

No PvE adjustments either despite being significantly behind Discipline in throughput.


Holy Priests aren't bad in PvE. They're just not Disc. So nobody plays them.

Everyone is significantly behind Disc because Disc is insanely overpowered. Best Mana Regen/Longevity, best throughput, best type of healing (absorbs), best cooldowns. They literally win at pretty much everything. Holy Priests, or anyone else, do not need to be brought to that level - Disc has to plummet. Though Blizzard seems content to just let them completely trivialize raids going by the patch notes so far.

Blizzard has been content, for years, to let Holy rot in PvP. If you cornered a dev and actually forced an answer out of them they'd just say "but you can go Disc." Same answer they give pure dps who like to play under-performing specializations. If you're not happy with that answer, and there's no real reason to be... too bad. They clearly don't care. You may as well complain nobody wants your tank on their team.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7675
Yeah im excited about 5.2 spell changes :)
Especially " Hand of purity "
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90 Draenei Shaman
17105
Holy priests are demonstrably and clearly the lowest performing, most non-viable healing spec for PvP...

... and so far they get no changes for 5.2.

No PvE adjustments either despite being significantly behind Discipline in throughput.


Holy Priests aren't bad in PvE. They're just not Disc. So nobody plays them.

Everyone is significantly behind Disc because Disc is insanely overpowered. Best Mana Regen/Longevity, best throughput, best type of healing (absorbs), best cooldowns. They literally win at pretty much everything. Holy Priests, or anyone else, do not need to be brought to that level - Disc has to plummet. Though Blizzard seems content to just let them completely trivialize raids going by the patch notes so far.

Blizzard has been content, for years, to let Holy rot in PvP. If you cornered a dev and actually forced an answer out of them they'd just say "but you can go Disc." Same answer they give pure dps who like to play under-performing specializations. If you're not happy with that answer, and there's no real reason to be... too bad. They clearly don't care. You may as well complain nobody wants your tank on their team.


This. There is nothing wrong with Holy Priests; for 25 Heroic, they actually currently rank as the 2nd highest throughput healing spec.

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Score/25H/all/14/60/default/#0000000000000000000000000000111111

The problem of course is when Disc shares the same class as them, they just won't get played until Disc is nerfed down to more balanced levels. On top of that, Holy Priests probably are better than they represent, because the type of players that are still playing as Holy on fights are likely those that are not as progression focused (since the true min maxers will be playing Disc for everything but Tsulong). As a result, I suspect the numbers for Holy are representative of a lower overall player skill pool than that of other classes. They probably are better than Shaman/Monks/Paladins/Druids by a fairly large margin.

Representation wise, Disc out-represents Holy for 25H parses by nearly a 5:1 margin. All other healing classes out-represent Holy by a 3:1 to 6:1 margin. Tsulong isn't affecting HPriest numbers, because Terrace heroic parses are not working properly in WOL still.

Basically, the only problem with Holy Priests seems to be Disc is way too overpowered and needs to be nerfed.
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90 Tauren Priest
12030
12/23/2012 09:56 AMPosted by Tiberria
Basically, the only problem with Holy Priests seems to be Disc is way too overpowered and needs to be nerfed.


Not just the only problem. Mana is a huge factor, too...still.

I feel like I'm addicted to Spirit, sometimes.

Brb, gotta go get my Spirit fix in...
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90 Undead Priest
11215
12/22/2012 05:39 AMPosted by Swaggle
I agree with everything you said about Disc. I've been of the belief that SS did need a slight nerf, and that's what it's getting


Slight nerf? Raid buffed I have like 45% mastery, so that makes SS 45% less effective. There's nothing slight about that.
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100 Tauren Druid
9040
I like the slight changes to Resto Druid, it's nice to see some attention.

I still think it's a bit of a joke that the healing mushrooms aren't receiving some major attention, be it a slight buff or a mechanical overhaul.
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