Amber Shaper 10m Help!

90 Draenei Paladin
10900
So the guild is finally working on Amber-Shaper and it's not really going that well.
Here are our logs from tonight.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/tk65hli3jnx45dlh/

I'm pretty sure we lost a tank to 'failure to exit' on every attempt. If it wasn't the first time they were changed, it was the second time. Which is actually surprising, they are actually pretty good tanks. Then we had issues with the constructs not dying enough for ppl to exit. Then we realized that by phase 2 living ambers were out of control. Essentially it was a complete mess, and despite everyone watching the fatboss guide, we all failed to execute.

So how is everyone else doing this fight? Is there something really obvious that we are missing? Any help would be appreciated.
Edited by Ceresc on 12/17/2012 4:39 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
It looks like most of your deaths are caused by player failure, but are you losing people to the debuff?

You should not be losing people to the debuff.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
It looks like most of your deaths are caused by player failure, but are you losing people to the debuff?

You should not be losing people to the debuff.


How are you guys handling the living ambers? It seems that we are getting overwhelmed with them once the constructs come out.
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90 Human Monk
12335
you should have a decent gap between when you dps the construct down to 20% and the next reshape life happens - heaps of time to knock the living ambers down
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
12/17/2012 06:07 AMPosted by Bushmills
you should have a decent gap between when you dps the construct down to 20% and the next reshape life happens - heaps of time to knock the living ambers down


Ya this is what isn't happening. By the time we hit phase 3 there are ambers all over the place, not sure what I can do to help. I specc'd into Holy Prism to try help dps them down, but thats only maybe 100k dps if it crits.
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90 Troll Mage
15740
What is your groups kill priority on all the enemies?

My guild has been getting it down easily for a few weeks and our priority is

Living ambers (if ranged, next to you), the constructs(to 20%, with them always eating 1 amber pool, no more, no less), The boss.

Phase 2 its:

Living ambers (if ranged, next to you), the constructs(to 20%, with them always eating 1 amber pool, no more, no less), The monstrosity.

Phase 3

Do not touch the constructs and only dps the boss.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
What is your groups kill priority on all the enemies?

My guild has been getting it down easily for a few weeks and our priority is

Living ambers (if ranged, next to you), the constructs(to 20%, with them always eating 1 amber pool, no more, no less), The boss.

Phase 2 its:

Living ambers (if ranged, next to you), the constructs(to 20%, with them always eating 1 amber pool, no more, no less), The monstrosity.

Phase 3

Do not touch the constructs and only dps the boss.


That's exactly how we were told to do it, but it doesn't seem to be happening. As a healer, my main role for this fight is tanks and the parasitic growth target. But I'm thinking that its probably going to be better to 2 heal this fight and have our monk go dps. Ambers just weren't going down, ppl weren't leaving the constructs in phase 1&2 and by phase 3 things were so out of hand that the combined chaos was wiping us.
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90 Human Priest
8850
I wouldn't suggest two healing incase a healer gets morphed during P2 and a sole healer is responsible for everything, not too smart or easy for that matter.

We have a shaman and paladin healer while I normall stick with atonement.

DPS goes after constructs, we have our healers DPS to kill living ambers. Atonement does a lot of dps so I am able to kill things quite easy.

People have to learn to properly use contructs, not stand in things, and help dps little adds as much as possible.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
It looks like most of your deaths are caused by player failure, but are you losing people to the debuff?

You should not be losing people to the debuff.


How are you guys handling the living ambers? It seems that we are getting overwhelmed with them once the constructs come out.


Our Boomkin handles them. We just make everyone spread out and have the Boomkin multi dot to kingdom come.
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90 Undead Priest
5795
Same as above we nominated a dps whos role it is to dps the adds, in our case a boomkin
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Our Boomkin handles them. We just make everyone spread out and have the Boomkin multi dot to kingdom come.


This. We got our first kill yesterday. We two healed, so i just switched to lasar chiken. We had our Spriest, Lock, And me just multi- dotting them and focusing on the boss. Ended up killing it with nobody alive - was pretty intense.
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90 Night Elf Druid
13360
The dps need to kill those that go into the shifted form immediately, and you need to asign a dps to be on the glob things full time.
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90 Human Monk
12335
12/17/2012 06:56 AMPosted by Ceresc
Ya this is what isn't happening. By the time we hit phase 3 there are ambers all over the place, not sure what I can do to help. I specc'd into Holy Prism to try help dps them down, but thats only maybe 100k dps if it crits.


don't know much about holy pally dps but I'd suspect it's not really your job to do more than token damage to them. disc priests can probably kill a few and I definitely do a lot of them on this toon with melee healing and when touch of death is up I only need to hit them 3 times then the 4th hit is an insta-kill. I usually save that for when one is on the person with parasite so they don't need to be healed

basically though, it's your dps's job to get the constructs to 20% asap and then kill any living ambers - they have hardly any health, it's pretty easy. they should never be a problem if dps are doing the right thing
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
12/17/2012 05:03 PMPosted by Bushmills
disc priests can probably kill a few


I don't know how your raid is, but I don't have the spare time to be killing them. I'm very busy 100% of the time.
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90 Human Monk
12335
if the players in the constructs are doing their job there's not much to be healed in p2, what are you busy with
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
12/17/2012 05:22 PMPosted by Bushmills
if the players in the constructs are doing their job there's not much to be healed in p2, what are you busy with


Dunno man. You tell me.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-if6x9v9jh7qupjus/sum/healingDone/?s=7871&e=8358
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90 Human Monk
12335
smite off the living ambers more? shrug

anyway, if you take my comment in context I think that saying "disc priests can probably kill a few" isn't worth arguing against
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12490
12/16/2012 09:46 PMPosted by Ceresc
Then we had issues with the constructs not dying enough for ppl to exit.

This was try #10, your longest attempt
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/tk65hli3jnx45dlh/analyze/dd/source/?s=8509&e=8955&target=45
This is showing damage done to the big abom, not the reshaped aboms that weren't dying quickly enough. I'm not sure how you had the DPS setup, but it looks like you were 3 healing and, while he was reshaped multiple times this attempt, was focusing a lot more damage on to the big abom than the Living Ambers and the reshaped abom compared to the other DPS.

This is try #5
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/tk65hli3jnx45dlh/analyze/dd/source/?s=4004&e=4341&target=45
On this attempt, the hunter appeared to be heavily focusing the big abom in phase 2 over living ambers and reshapes in comparison to other DPS. With 3 heals, it's pretty important to have all the DPS focusing the correct targets.

Make sure all ranged DPS understand that Reshapes and Living Ambers need to be DPSed down before putting any focus on the boss.

On try #8
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/tk65hli3jnx45dlh/analyze/dd/source/?target=45&s=7211&e=7563

It looks like most of the DPS wasn't doing too much to the abom, so I'll assume at this point you were having problems with the Living Ambers.

Here's the link to the damage done to those by the raid:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/tk65hli3jnx45dlh/analyze/dd/source/?target=45&s=7211&e=7563

It looks like almost all of the damage on them is from the Spriest and a little from the Hunter. The Shaman and Lock really need to do more damage to the little adds at this point. It's a similar story on:

Try 10:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/tk65hli3jnx45dlh/analyze/dd/source/?target=33&s=8509&e=8955

By Try 11, the Warlock, Hunter and Spriest were about equal damage to the adds.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/tk65hli3jnx45dlh/analyze/dd/source/?target=33&s=9177&e=9509

I can't exactly identify what the problem is on each attempt, so if you could explain what you know about each attempt, that could help me analyze it.

I would also consider 2 healing this fight. We had to bring in some PuGs for our kill this week, but here's a link to our damage on the kill:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-wp3s0p32ud7o5zrf/sum/damageDone/?s=4352&e=4804

Here's the damage done to Living Ambers:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-wp3s0p32ud7o5zrf/analyze/dd/source/?s=4352&e=4804&target=63

Here's damage done to Monstrosity (big abom):
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-wp3s0p32ud7o5zrf/analyze/dd/source/?s=4352&e=4804&target=65

Our ranged DPS all focus on Living Ambers > Reshape > Big add, while melee DPS focus the big add > monstrosity. We use 2 healers instead of 3, which puts less stress on DPS when one is put into the abom, but a little more stress on the healer when a healer is in the abom. We had a few Amber Explosions from the boss that made for close calls, but was manageable, even when we were solo healing with the other healer in the abom. Make sure that everyone understands how to work the abom and Phase 1+2 won't be an issue with 2 healers.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
12/17/2012 06:33 PMPosted by Comb
Make sure all ranged DPS understand that Reshapes and Living Ambers need to be DPSed down before putting any focus on the boss.


I think one of the main issues is that our dps don't want to switch and/or just aren't paying attn.

Our ranged DPS all focus on Living Ambers > Reshape > Big add, while melee DPS focus the big add > monstrosity. We use 2 healers instead of 3, which puts less stress on DPS when one is put into the abom, but a little more stress on the healer when a healer is in the abom. We had a few Amber Explosions from the boss that made for close calls, but was manageable, even when we were solo healing with the other healer in the abom. Make sure that everyone understands how to work the abom and Phase 1+2 won't be an issue with 2 healers.


I suggested this to the RL and we are going to try 2 healing and having our monk dps as his renewing mist isn't selective on which target it heals, making the parasitic target take more dmg. I'm also going to suggest the division between ranged and melee on the abom. I'm hoping this will help get adds down much faster. RL also told us all to practice the constructs in LFR. I'm hoping that ppl took his advice.
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90 Pandaren Priest
12725
Tell your DPS to use a kill priority of oozes > constructs that need broken > monstrosity > boss. It looks like you have plenty of range so you can probably have melee focus on constructs, the monstrosity and the boss.

Reshape life has a 50s interval between casts and a construct should be able to remain active for ~40 seconds before needing any slime pools to stay afloat on willpower. There isn't really a huge rush to break them out provided it isn't a healer stuck in one. If someone is going to be in one for over 30-40 seconds they should haul !@# and eat a puddle.

It's much easier to use the construct properly if people know how it works instead of reacting to everything. Constructs attempt to blow themselves up about every 12-15 seconds. You should be able to amber strike roughly 3 times per explosion interrupt and have a bit of spare time to eat puddles if necessary. So ideally when placed in a construct it goes amber strike x3 > move to puddle (if necessary) > struggle for control > eat puddle (if necessary) > rinse/repeat until able to break out > break out.

Try to make sure you push p2 shortly before or right as a reshape life is going out. It will make interrupts on the monstrosity easier to manage.

The entire crux of this fight is time management, construct execution, amber strike debuff management and DPS. It's shouldn't feel like any manner of healing check until p3. And if you manage amber strike debuffs correctly that should be over quickly. If this is not the case people are messing up somewhere.
Edited by Volios on 12/17/2012 7:40 PM PST
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