Unholy Death Knights: Mechanical Shortcomings

90 Undead Death Knight
8890
Please don't jump on me for making a bad suggestion (Some Like A Nasty Tussle sometimes, it seems) but what if Timmy was just perma-transformed and DT done away with?

Dmg nerfed appropriately to compensate, of course.

Then there's that stupid pvp again too...


From what I read, apparently our pet dies really quickly in PvP, so don't sweat that too much.

Towards the end of Wrath, Unholy Frenzy was a buff we cast on our lil' buddy. Back then, it was a failure, but only due to the numbers it put out. It just wasn't enough. Although, I find myself liking the idea more as we have more control over Timmy. Make Timmy's DT more like an old school UF (cast on command cooldown) perhaps?

Personally, I always liked the idea of the ghoul flipping out, rather than turning into the-thing-that-keeps-losing-his-arm-but-that's-okay-because-he-has-tentacles.
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90 Orc Death Knight
16140
12/29/2012 01:42 AMPosted by Skaven
As far as the changes are concerned, none of it truly addresses as to what Unholy is supposed to do in a Spiritbinder/Tsulong scenario where there are tons of low health adds that need to die fast. Even with the larger adds, it takes us a while to get to full speed, and more often than not, it's dead before we're "ramped up."


That is a problem that unfortunately would require a rework to the spec to work. I doubt Blizzard really wants to change rune costs for abilities between specs, so I don't see this being remedied at all until 6.0. It would be nice however if we could get something that could instantly convert our BF runes into death runes on a short-ish cooldown, maybe 60 seconds or so. It wouldn't instantly refresh runes like ERW, just simply convert. It would be a bandaid fix and therefore not perfect, but it could work well enough to hold us to 6.0.

12/29/2012 11:04 AMPosted by Skaven
Towards the end of Wrath, Unholy Frenzy was a buff we cast on our lil' buddy. Back then, it was a failure, but only due to the numbers it put out. It just wasn't enough. Although, I find myself liking the idea more as we have more control over Timmy. Make Timmy's DT more like an old school UF (cast on command cooldown) perhaps?


Just a minor nitpick here, but the ability was Ghoul Frenzy. It was a decent concept, but I personally wasn't a big fan of it. If I remember right, it cost an unholy rune, lasted 30 seconds, and gave your pet 25% haste and healed him for 60% of his health over those 30 seconds. I personally feel like DT is the improved version of Ghoul Frenzy. The only good thing about it was that it didn't have any ramp-up and could be used basically whenever you felt like it.
Edited by Semmi on 12/29/2012 11:38 AM PST
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100 Draenei Shaman
4570
Same cost and duration, zero rampup, included a heal, and a smaller buff. The only actual downside was that it didn't look awesome.

Well, and it wasn't worth using rotationally in PvE, as Skaven noted. But I was perfectly fine with it being situational.

That said, "looking awesome" is important. I like the pet transformation. I just think it takes too long to rampup from a cold start.
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90 Orc Death Knight
7780
Yikes, GC tweet:

"DKs have been screaming for qol changes for years. Then they screamed for the same changes on mop beta. Yup, ignored.
They screamed a lot before LK too and we listened a bit too well. (Source)"

Does that concern anyone else?
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100 Orc Death Knight
17465
Yikes, GC tweet:

"DKs have been screaming for qol changes for years. Then they screamed for the same changes on mop beta. Yup, ignored.
They screamed a lot before LK too and we listened a bit too well. (Source)"

Does that concern anyone else?


Yea, apparently no other class screams like we do. Enough to be ignored and have it reference 2 expansions later.....

Ret pallies were OP in wrath, do they still get nerfed for it to this day?
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90 Draenei Death Knight
6095
He seems to be confusing buffs with QoL requests. THAT is worrying.
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100 Draenei Shaman
4570
I think it's more likely that he just missed the QoL part of it.
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100 Orc Death Knight
17465
12/29/2012 02:29 PMPosted by Kevkul
He seems to be confusing buffs with QoL requests. THAT is worrying.


Especially when a simple change like the PS one that came this patch is a massive improvement to the spec with probably the worst target swapping ingame.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9555
I believe GC was trying to make a point that doesn't come across well via twitter. It's an easy mistake to make, and I don't think it warrants serious concern until we see PTR results. Thus far, QoL changes are being addressed.
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91 Goblin Warlock
8710

That is a problem that unfortunately would require a rework to the spec to work.


Not really. It just requires the addition of a mechanic like Mind Spike or the original Obliterate. Something that hits hard, but can't be included in the normal rotation under standard circumstances because of it interacting poorly with our normal mechanics.
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90 Human Death Knight
10680
The tweets that are posted on mmo champion tend to lack the follow up responses. I asked him about that tweet afterwards and he replied.

@Holsety_

@Ghostcrawler how come you keeping using wrath beta feedback as an excuse to ignore DK feedback now? It's 3 expansions ago man.


‏@Ghostcrawler

@Holsety_ It's not about DKs specifically. It's just a good example of the consequences of giving players exactly what they want.
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90 Orc Death Knight
12740
Something to keep in mind: that tweet was from December 12th. Its not really relevant anymore.
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90 Orc Death Knight
7780
The tweets that are posted on mmo champion tend to lack the follow up responses. I asked him about that tweet afterwards and he replied.

@Holsety_

@Ghostcrawler how come you keeping using wrath beta feedback as an excuse to ignore DK feedback now? It's 3 expansions ago man.


‏@Ghostcrawler

@Holsety_ It's not about DKs specifically. It's just a good example of the consequences of giving players exactly what they want.


Thanks for the follow up.
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90 Orc Death Knight
12740
@Krinu
Any updates on your simcraft work?
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90 Undead Death Knight
8890
12/29/2012 11:37 AMPosted by Semmi
Just a minor nitpick here, but the ability was Ghoul Frenzy.


Doh! You are correct, of course. It's not nitpicking if you're right.
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90 Undead Death Knight
16260
12/16/2012 11:18 PMPosted by Magdalena
It doesn’t help that our weapon scaling is terrible due to so much of our damage (ghoul, minions, diseases, etc) not being dependent on it. In fact, one of the main reasons Unholy became so much more popular in 4.3 was due to the presence of a weapon which we actually did scale well with- Gurthalak and its proc.


This is so true. At he begning of the raids, exacly for not having weapons, I would outdps all the 3 frost dks in my raid. But after one weapon, bam, he jumps 20k dps. Me? 5~10k. Even getting gear, it feels like my dps is stuck at 75~80k, while the frost is going to 100k+. Not only him, in weeks I passed for top damage to 10th place in the charts, even having one of the best gears and ilvl in the guild. Very sad.
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100 Draenei Death Knight
8725
It appears that Icy Touch is no longer on Reaping on the PTR.

That is a shame, AoE-wise.
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100 Draenei Shaman
4570
It's just a bug. It was in the patch notes, so they simply missed it. No need to freak out.
Edited by Slant on 1/3/2013 10:11 AM PST
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100 Draenei Death Knight
8725
01/03/2013 10:11 AMPosted by Slant
No need to freak out.


Hmmmm. Unnecessary.

01/03/2013 10:11 AMPosted by Slant
It's just a bug. It was in the patch notes, so they simply missed it.


I hope you are correct.
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90 Undead Death Knight
8890
Do we know exactly what the disparity between the specs in respect to weapon scaling, or are you guys still trying to figure that out?

Given a new tier of gear coming out in the new patch, I'm concerned that we may wind up getting left behind, even with some changes. For now, the numbers are working, but let's just say I look forward to seeing some results.
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