You ever have that awkward moment

90 Pandaren Monk
6610
When you have to inform your co-healers that they may be awful?

What I mean is I'm in this guild and they are all very nice people. Our tanks are great, our dps is on point, but our healing is full of issues. We've only been at it for two weeks but at the same time it's late enough into things that Vaults should be fairly easy with everyone executing things, but we find ourselves unable to progress because healing is coming up short. We are three healing (Monk, Shaman, Priest) which should sail us through at least the first few encounters but instead we wipe endlessly.

We finally made it to the third boss last week, which I've actually two-healed on my Shaman before I rerolled, and while we could have easily made the enrage between a lack of healing from out Priest (who has a broken headset and thus can't be told to do anything ever and so can only be trusted to heal.) and our shaman not seeming to be able to get into totems (ironic? Maybe.) we just couldn't get anywhere. After it's all said and done the RL asks me if I think our other healers are worth keeping to which I replying "Urhm. I'm sure we can work on them?" And now I am tasked with working on them.

I'm by no means amazing, and I'm still kinda shuffling my way through monk healing and trying to learn what's what, but I'm always first (usually about 50% of the healing no matter my assignment. Also tank healing as a monk is awful.) and my co-healers kinda lag around 20% each, with our brewmaster and guardian making up the rest. I'm going to run logs tonight, so I can take a better look at what may be going wrong as far as what heals they use/buff uptime, but I thought maybe someone could take a peak at them gear wise and see if I'm missing any glaring issues. My priest knowledge is like, nil at this stage and I was never a very diligent shaman anyway.

Side note: Would our priest be better as disc in this comp? I feel like absorbs would be nice. This whole 'Maziko in charge of healers' things has me flummoxed on all levels.
Edited by ALIAS on 12/31/2012 11:51 PM PST
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90 Worgen Druid
4810
I see some missing enchants, mostly on the priest but the shaman is also missing a bracer enchant, and you haven't enchanted the weapon yet.

I don't really know stat priorities for 10 mans so can't give much advice there, but I do definitely think Disc would be better than Holy for your comp.

Combat logs would definitely give us a better chance at really finding out what's going on. I highly doubt there's much from armory that's going to greatly affect performance, but if there is I'll leave it to others who play those classes regularly to point them out =p (mostly referring to reforges, gemming, specs, and glyphs)
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90 Night Elf Priest
4340
Your priest has rather low spirit @6.5k, if that's his healing set. Others may disagree, but what I would do at that ilvl is ignore the haste breakpoint, stack mastery and spirit, and probably sit in Chakra: Serenity most of the time. And he needs to enchant and get a belt buckle.

All of the fights are easily 2 healable at your ilvls. Without seeing logs I can't say if it's more poor raid execution or healer execution that's the issue. With 3 healers, you're likely going to see 50-25-25 breakdowns because there isn't enough to heal.

If a healer is having class-understanding issues, the best you can probably do is let them know they need to work on it and point them to resources (healing guides here, or elsewhere).

If it's a specific mechanic issue, that's easier to address and help them work through it on the spot. Last week we had a pug 2nd healer for Elegon, a holy priest who usually plays shadow, and he wasn't dispelling the debuff from the Protectors. I told him after the first wipe that we need to dispel it but he was confused what I was talking about. For whatever reason, his Healbot wasn't showing the debuff and he didn't have Purify on a separate keybind, so he couldn't.

Discipline is quite overpowered at the moment, if the healer knows how to use it for the fights. If your priest knows how to play disc it may work out better for you, especially if 2 healing.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6610
12/28/2012 02:56 PMPosted by Evry
With 3 healers, you're likely going to see 50-25-25 breakdowns because there isn't enough to heal.


I would agree with this, except it's like 50-20-20-Dead, and that's the part that worries me. Like I don't think we could drop one of them and down bosses. Not that we down bosses now, lol.

Raid is in about four hours and I've got everything set up on WoL, but i was just told we're taking a different Shaman, which is kind of a downer. Can't really get an accurate view on our usual two with someone different there. :/

I'm going to point the priest, at least, to some Disc guides tonight, hopefully without coming off as offensive or whatever. I'm still working on a nice way of saying "I feel like you could do better."
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
I'll let someone else discuss the shaman. I'm here to critique the priest.

First of all, for your comp, disc is a better choice. Absorbs work well with 2 reactive healers and since you don't have a paladin, he'd be the one to provide that.

However, I know that a lot of priests refuse to go disc or suck at it so I'll give ou some pointers for him if he stays holy.

First of all, he should be in chakra serenity and abusing the ability to roll renews. It is insanely cheap and very high throughput.

Second, he should have at least 10k spirit. It'll give him a bit more room to be agressive with his healing. Some may say to run lower, but i wouldn't suggest it if he's underperforming as much as you say. Have him prioritize mastery, then the haste breakpoint. Master for holy is free healing in the form of a hot, which is extremely useful.

He shouldn't be using flash heal much at all, as generally HW: serenity is fast enough and hits hard enough to get someone out of emergency situations.

Have him spec into cascade and use it to refresh renews (it refreshes it on any target with renew up in serenity chakra.)
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
Oh, and the fact that the priest has pure haste gems is holding him back. Tell him to gem spirit for blue slots, spirit+int for red slots and spirit+mastery or spirit+ haste for yellow slots.

He'll notice an absolutely huge difference, i guarantee.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
Talents look alright for the shaman. He has a lot of haste and very little mastery and crit. He needs to pick up more of those and dump some of that haste. He has Riptide glyphed which I don't care for personally outside of Garalon. Unless he is actually using it to maintain something like 90% Tidal Waves uptime, you really don't need it in any other encounter. Totemic Recall is best replacement for the RT glyph, imo.

Without logs I'd be guessing to tell you what he could improve. Usual things I see going wrong with low performance shamans: Low uptime on Earth Shield. Not using HST regularly. Not using cooldowns.

You're definitely overhealing. Maybe if you drop to three one of the others will start to perform better. Right now it may be there is nothing for the other two healers to do - a common plight I am familiar with from running with a monk. :P
Edited by Fluffy on 12/28/2012 3:29 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12550
Well, you could say it without necessarily being direct, and see if they catch on.

Something like - guys, we're having healing issues. We all need to turn it up a notch, so we can down this boss. This does two things; first, it makes it a team effort, rather than finger pointing. Second, it sends the message that underperformance is not going unnoticed.

See if that makes a difference - if not, then it's time to start having a specific conversation.

Riôt
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8360
12/28/2012 02:29 PMPosted by Maziko
which I've actually two-healed on my Shaman before I rerolled

12/28/2012 02:29 PMPosted by Maziko
two-healed on my Shaman before I rerolled

12/28/2012 02:29 PMPosted by Maziko
on my Shaman before I rerolled

12/28/2012 02:29 PMPosted by Maziko
Shaman before I rerolled

12/28/2012 02:29 PMPosted by Maziko
I rerolled

/thread
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For the Shaman, I would suggest using Unleashed Fury instead of Primal Elementalist. It would depend on how he's making use of the elementals, but as far as I know, UF is the better talent for healing, it can lead to some monstrous heals. Other than that, it's hard to say. I would guess low uptime on Earth Shield and HST, and not planning out Healing Rain usage well, but it's hard to say without logs.

For the Priest, he's gotta enchant all of his gear. He'll notice a big difference by doing that. His gems could use work too. Pure gems are bad, he should be doing int/spirit for blue and spirit/haste or spirit/mastery for the blue. He could use a bit more spirit, Holy's pretty meh in the mana department and could use all of the mana boosting you can get.
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90 Draenei Priest
6975

/thread


How is this even remotely relevant?
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90 Pandaren Monk
6610
12/28/2012 05:31 PMPosted by Dysrhythmia
How is this even remotely relevant?


/shrug

I'm not sure if he's offended I was a shaman and am now a monk (Though I would theorize that most monks had to, you know, reroll from something else what with them being a new class in all) or that I no longer play my shaman (but then my guild would have 3 intellect wearing shamans so that would be silly, where as now I'm the only intellect leather user.) or what.
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To answer your last question, I have been in my progression group when it started as I started raiding as holy, and every boss we downed I simply don't see the benefit of not going disc. But holy is also considerably easier to pick up then disc, since disc has a lot of tools in its kit to learn. Not to say holy is a bad healing spec, I just think disc brings more to the table when played right.

How are they doing on mana? If mana is a problem for them, they seem to have a decent amount of non-spirit gear, mainly the shaman. He should probably fix that. As well as replacing those INT meta gems with spirit gems. Also to your priest, I feel that mastery is the better choice for him, due to the fact that it increases his healing output without costing more mana. Haste really should only be used when mana is not the issue and straight up output is extremely important.

I highly recommend to try to assist them in improving, and if they cannot then you should probably bench them. Not to bring you down, but the first 4 bosses in MV are really easy to heal, if you're healers can't improve them its just going to get so much more nasty down the road.

If your priest does switch to disc, make sure to tell him that if the damage on the tank with voodoo doll is absorbed, no damage will go to the other voodoo dolls.
And if/when you reach elegon, atonement healing is extremely powerful in it.
Edited by Trollinhobo on 12/28/2012 5:52 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8360
12/28/2012 05:39 PMPosted by Maziko
How is this even remotely relevant?


/shrug

I'm not sure if he's offended I was a shaman and am now a monk (Though I would theorize that most monks had to, you know, reroll from something else what with them being a new class in all) or that I no longer play my shaman (but then my guild would have 3 intellect wearing shamans so that would be silly, where as now I'm the only intellect leather user.) or what.

If you want an honest answer, you're entire raid sucks collectively. You should be blowing through MV normal. Elegon was the only fight my guild had to spend serious time on, and that was spent on keeping transitions tidy so we didn't have healers getting oneshot.

My advice is find a new guild. MW's are easy enough since all you do is spam ReM and uplift + w/e is the best chi generator in that situation. 3 buttons = not hard = no trouble getting into a better guild. Except no guild is recruiting mistweavers since they are 100% useless in every single way except one niche ability. Therefor you're left with going back to your shaman and finding a better guild.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
Judging from the Totems comment, I'm guessing Garajal? Keep in mind when looking at healing numbers on that fight that your recount/skada/wol won't count anyone who is in the spirit realm while you (or the person loging) are out, or while you are in and they are out. Seeing a 50/20 split on that fight is completely normal, and odds are they are seeing the same 50/20 split from their perspective with you doing the 20. If you want an accurate comparison, have them link their personal number and compare it to your personal number.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6610
12/28/2012 08:16 PMPosted by Sotanaht
Judging from the Totems comment, I'm guessing Garajal?


I actually meant in general, not just that fight, and was kinda venting on the irony of a shaman not doing well on a totem mechanic. But I've been taking logs tonight and things are less bad, mostly because we switched our original shaman (the one I linked above) to dps and have a different resto. I do have some info on the priest, now running as disc, if anyone is interested; I would appreciate any suggestions/notes if there are any. He may be fine now; its hard to say since as others have said we are kind of overhealing so he might just be having issues getting healing in.

To be fair to him we seem to be having more issues with raid execution than healing anyway, so everything may be fine with us/other people need to stop dropping fire/purple in the raid.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/i6ih8219heq2qlls/ (Feng attempts. We're on a smoke break right now. /shrug)
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8360
12/28/2012 08:48 PMPosted by Maziko
Judging from the Totems comment, I'm guessing Garajal?


I actually meant in general, not just that fight, and was kinda venting on the irony of a shaman not doing well on a totem mechanic. But I've been taking logs tonight and things are less bad, mostly because we switched our original shaman (the one I linked above) to dps and have a different resto. I do have some info on the priest, now running as disc, if anyone is interested; I would appreciate any suggestions/notes if there are any. He may be fine now; its hard to say since as others have said we are kind of overhealing so he might just be having issues getting healing in.

To be fair to him we seem to be having more issues with raid execution than healing anyway, so everything may be fine with us/other people need to stop dropping fire/purple in the raid.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/i6ih8219heq2qlls/ (Feng attempts. We're on a smoke break right now. /shrug)

Logs are skewed, at least in my experience, on that fight. Since when you get zoned it stops taking other peoples data. I do 60%+ of the healing done on that fight, which is not accurate. If you're hitting enrage timers your dps fails miserably, or your healers aren't SPAMMING heals inside totems. It's probably a combination of both, which is why i say reroll shaman and find a real guild.
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90 Orc Shaman
11830
In general for Gara'jal, I'd advise someone in your raid group getting this addon:
curse.com/addons/wow/garajalannounce
You set it up before the fight with a priority list for dps/healers to take the spirit totems, and it adjusts dynamically based on who gets Voodoo Doll. Make sure that whoever is running it is the ONLY one listed as Raid Assist and have the RL turn off DBM auto-marking for that fight (or have the RL be the one with the addon and remove all Assists for that fight), and the addon will take care of marking the people to take the totem.

And have someone get that new shaman a Windsong enchant.
Edited by Mahanik on 12/28/2012 9:40 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12025

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/i6ih8219heq2qlls/ (Feng attempts. We're on a smoke break right now. /shrug)


On your longest attempt his [shaman] ES uptime was 64%, his TW uptime even tho having glyphed Riptide was only 65% (easily achieved w/o the glyph). He didn't use Ascendance (granted it can be hard to use so I'll cut him slack there(especially when 3 healing)). He is specced for AS but only used it once in a 7 minute fight. HST usage was lower than ideal, it can easily account for 10-15% of healing in any given fight. He doesn't use Unleash Life ever.

Also he didn't use Stormlash totem. He should get into that habit.

Edit: Oh this is a different shaman than the one originally discussed. How weird that he would so easily fall into the parameters I predicted in my first post. :P

Edit2: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/proudmoore/Cemetiere/simple Specced for UF but doesn't use it. Glyph water shield = nono usually. Way more than needed haste. Crit/mastery (crit moreso) preferred given raid format/composition. Plus all the above minus note about rt glyph since they dont use it.
Edited by Fluffy on 12/28/2012 9:54 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
6610
12/28/2012 09:40 PMPosted by Fluffy
Oh this is a different shaman than the one originally discussed. How weird that he would so easily fall into the parameters I predicted in my first post. :P


Common Shaman mistakes maybe? Idk, I wasn't a great shammy, just kinda skated by on the laurels of my class, lol. However I will let him know about all of this, good suggestions!

In general for Gara'jal, I'd advise someone in your raid group getting this addon:
curse.com/addons/wow/garajalannounce


Used it for our last three attempts and it went pretty well. We had some issues (Disc priest couldn't top people up in the spirit world. ...not sure what that's about.) but VooDoo Doll/totems wasn't one of them at least. Sadly what Imgandiloljk is saying is kinda true, some of us are kind of...lackluster?
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