What's wrong with Scorch-Weaving?

90 Human Warrior
10675
I think the answer is pretty straightforward:

What would be wrong with warriors having a cheap means of keeping colossus smash up 100% of the time?

That's the problem.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
6075
02/09/2013 11:42 AMPosted by Williame
What would be wrong with warriors having a cheap means of keeping colossus smash up 100% of the time?


Except for the part where it isn't.
Both styles involve us managing our debuff to keep ourselves going.
One involves casting spells that do not effect the debuff, whilst the other involves clearing the debuffs.

It would be akin to doing less DPS every 2-8 casts such that you can do more damage on those other casts as opposed to doing one bit of damage, then ramping up to it again.

12/23/2012 03:06 AMPosted by Lhivera
You're hardly "chained,"

Correct to say we aren't chained, but to have effective mana regen, we must either return to a rune or recast it.
Edited by Warping on 2/9/2013 3:22 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Warlock
16225
http://i.imgur.com/PngpPZ1.jpg

It's simply too strong.

It's not particularly hard, either. Even if I play like garbage and dip to 65-70% mana with no mana gem off cooldown I don't feel punished for it and it's easy to recover with just some scorches and missiles in place of ABs.

I don't enjoy the rollercoaster of changes and feeling like I need to change specs and gearing with every patch to stay competitive, but I think it's hard to argue Arcane isn't overtuned atm.
Reply Quote
8 Draenei Priest
0
http://i.imgur.com/PngpPZ1.jpg

It's simply too strong.

It's not particularly hard, either. Even if I play like garbage and dip to 65-70% mana with no mana gem off cooldown I don't feel punished for it and it's easy to recover with just some scorches and missiles in place of ABs.

I don't enjoy the rollercoaster of changes and feeling like I need to change specs and gearing with every patch to stay competitive, but I think it's hard to argue Arcane isn't overtuned atm.


The other DPS are pretty darn low there.

However, nobody said Arcane wasn't overtuned. In fact, I said that it was overtuned. Like, six posts ago. But that wasn't even the issue being discussed when I made this thread (which was two months ago), and it's not why Blizzard is taking it away.

I think the answer is pretty straightforward:

What would be wrong with warriors having a cheap means of keeping colossus smash up 100% of the time?

That's the problem.


Colossus Smash is nothing like Arcane Blast. Blast is Arcane's filler. It builds charges. It has the lowest DPET of any of Arcane's single target spells. It doesn't have a cooldown or apply a debuff. ... You don't have to use it in melee range. Okay, that last one was a little silly.

Unless you meant the Colossus Smash debuff is like Arcane Charges, but that's not a good comparison either. Colossus Smash has no drawback other than its cooldown. Arcane Mages cannot normally maintain high Charges (with Rune of Power) because Blast will consume too much mana, lowering your mastery bonus multiplier and your damage for the rest of the fight as you struggle to regen the lost mana.

Scorch-Weavers got around this by, well, weaving Scorch, which is another sacrifice itself. It was slightly more powerful than standard Arcane, yes, but that's not the reason Blizzard is removing it. It's simply not their intended playstyle. No matter how hard a warrior tries, he/she cannot maintain the CS debuff at all times, because the actual rules of the game forbid it. Unless you found a way to reliably trigger Sudden Death every six seconds, but that's RNG, which is definitely not involved in gaining or maintaining Charges (yes, you can get super lucky with Missiles procs, but you'd still lose more mana than you gain).

But again, not the point. It was a rhetorical question. Old Arcane was whack. Blizzard has been trying to make it more "fun." Huzzah and such.
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
16320
The whole point of the talent revamp in MoP was to move away from cookie cutter builds and mandatory talents.

Scorch Weaving Arcane (aka the best Mage spec you can play if you want to be competitive) is the exact opposite of that direction. You're forced to spec both Scorch and RoP. They are absolutely mandatory.
Edited by Zildjian on 2/9/2013 5:36 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Warrior
11020
he whole point of the talent revamp in MoP was to move away from cookie cutter builds and mandatory talents.

Scorch Weaving Arcane (aka the best Mage spec you can play if you want to be competitive) is the exact opposite of that direction. You're forced to spec both


Well I think we all called that it would be preferred talents from the get-go. The biggest problem with scorch-weaving is that it's not what blizzard intended. It's in the mobility tier, so it's main purpose is primary to provide moment based casting. However arcane mages aren't just using it for that purpose, they are using it for mana savings which breaks the spec.
Reply Quote
MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Human Mage
10015
02/09/2013 03:20 PMPosted by Warping
You're hardly "chained,"

Correct to say we aren't chained, but to have effective mana regen, we must either return to a rune or recast it.


Right. You're free to move, at a cost, which is the intended design. Part of the design is that a good player will be better than an average player at knowing when it is best to live with the reduced damage and regen until it's possible to return to an existing rune, and when it's best to place a new one. These periods of downtime are part of what the multiplier is balanced around, and finding ways to minimize that downtime is the opportunity that good players have to differentiate themselves from average players.

The general design is good. It may require some tweaks in response to the changes to Invocation, since Invocation is becoming much easier to maximize and, once the buff is up, will grant its bonus even while moving and regardless of positioning. I suspect that in 5.2, Rune will be a lot less popular; to compete effectively with the reworked Invocation, it probably needs to have a superior multiplier. But we'll see; perhaps people will keep using it.
________________________________________________
Find answers to questions about Mage mechanics in
Lhivera’s Compendium • http://lhiveras-library.com/compendium
Reply Quote
59 Draenei Death Knight
10360
How dare you mages invent a new playstyle for your class.

Don't you know you're supposed to be pigeonholed into the playstyle that the developers choose for you? Especially in this day and age where the game is all about being able to have your own unique style of play!
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
0
http://i.imgur.com/PngpPZ1.jpg

It's simply too strong.


Yeah, comparing your parses to the rabble that is LFR is definitely a good way to make accurate comparisons about spec performance.
Edited by Kaikou on 2/10/2013 6:56 AM PST
Reply Quote
85 Draenei Shaman
5930
I find it hilarious how PVErs come up with these fancy names for such trivial things.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
12435
Right. You're free to move, at a cost, which is the intended design. Part of the design is that a good player will be better than an average player at knowing when it is best to live with the reduced damage and regen until it's possible to return to an existing rune, and when it's best to place a new one. These periods of downtime are part of what the multiplier is balanced around, and finding ways to minimize that downtime is the opportunity that good players have to differentiate themselves from average players.

The general design is good


Have to disagree with you here. I do feel very chained to it, especially in arcane. Everything you do revolves around casting it, standing in it, running away from it, or running back to it for 100% of every fight. It's constantly involved with everything you do, and you know the second that you're not standing in it, because your regen suffers severely.

Hopefully 5.2 Invo will be a better choice although only a slightly less crappy choice. This kind of feels like an election, I don't get anything that I want and have to choose the lesser of two crappy choices.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Warlock
13800
Back in the Burning Crusade, Destro had a build that involved sacrificing the Succubus, and spamming Shadow Bolt. That was literally all. You pressed 111111111111111 and got 10k Shadow Bolt Crits. You could, and people did, often just have a spam Macro and tab out during boss fights.

Now this was an alternative playstyle, as is Scorch weaving. It is a more extreme example to demonstrate the point, and Blizz draws the line somewhere.
Reply Quote
88 Undead Warlock
5480
The whole point of the talent revamp in MoP was to move away from cookie cutter builds and mandatory talents.

Scorch Weaving Arcane (aka the best Mage spec you can play if you want to be competitive) is the exact opposite of that direction. You're forced to spec both Scorch and RoP. They are absolutely mandatory.


And the whole point of Arcane was to manage your mana, right? Weaving achieved this and yes I can see where you are coming from with the 'this is the way to play if you want to be competitive' argument, but that philosophy will not work. There is always going to be 'the spec' and 'the rotation' in wow.

Come 5.2 Arcane will simply be 'dump at 4 stacks'. That's it. No mana management of any kind other than keeping it above 90%. I don't know about you but I would rather scorch weave than AB, AB, AM, AB, ABR.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]