509 16/16 H Warlock DEMONOLOGY Guide

90 Troll Warlock
10930
Pyru's Demonology Guide for Beginners/Casuals/Hardcore Raiders.

1. General Rambling about Demonology. (Don't need to read if you don't want.)
2. Talents/Glyphs
3. Secondary Stats/Gems/Reforging
4. Opener
5. Cooldown Management
6. Single Target Rotation/Priority List
7. 2-4 Target Rotation/Priority List
8. 4+ Target AoE Rotation
9. Random Tips for different encounters
10. Affliction vs Demonology
11. BiS List (From SimulationCraft.org)
12. Suggestions to Warlocks/Demonology
13. PvP

1. General Rambling about Demonology. (Don't need to read if you don't want.)

First, if you want. http://www.wow-heroes.com/ (US-Ner'zhul // Pyru)

I've been seeing too many threads where people are saying that demo is clunky/weird. While I will agree to some extent, the people judging it are playing it 100% wrong. Demonology is actually a very viable spec. It might not do the same damage on single target as affliction, but it offers burst and very good multi-dot/aoe. I prefer it on many fights. Lei Shi is a great example of how Demonology burst will help your guild out over affliction. ex:(The quicker you break out of Get Away on heroic, the better you will be off)

You can skip this if you want, just my thoughts on why I feel like demonology is 10x better than the !@#$storm it was in cata. >>

Demonology has changed alot since Cata. And when you see people saying they liked it better, they either didn't play it much/correct, or they are just into some weird %^-*. Demonology in cata was one of the most unfun/RNG-based specs I've ever had the pleasure of being forced to play for my guild. Impending Doom ruled your dps more then people remember. (15% static chance to lower CD on Meta, which was a 3 minute CD, on the casting of SB and Incin. It didn't include Soul Fire till a later patch, so the execute did not lower your meta cd.) Meta in cata was ALL your damage. You just kinda hit with a plastic sword until it came back up. This was a decent thing on some fights where burst AOE was needed. (Maloriak) But for most other fights, was very annoying if Impending Doom didn't proc. Not to mention, our felguard did !@#$ dps and we actually used a felhunter for single target. Demonology got some love due to a completely overpowered trinket that lined up mastery every 2 minutes. (Made demo one of the best specs in firelands, but it was still very unfun.) My guild had no ele shaman and 3 warlocks. Our warlocks actually had a roll-based way of seeing what unlucky bastard had to go demo. They would actually pay me to go demo sometimes because they hated it so much. History lesson over.

2. Talents/Glyphs

Tier 1:

Dark Regen/Soul Leech: This is up to you as both are good. Soul Leech is for fights with steady/ongoing damage. Dark Regen is better for fights where aren't taking constant damage. (example: Take Soul Leech on H Will, take Dark Regen on Blade Lord)

Harvest Life: I actually think this talent is complete trash for all 3 specs. I will explain why in the AoE section. The only time it would ever be used is if you had to AoE and you couldn't be within 25 yards of the boss. (Not common at all)

Tier 2

Howl of Terror: Not a very good talent for raiding. I'm sure it could be used for some "oh-%^-*" cc moments, but there are generally better ways to CC than to fear. Only fight I'd ever consider it would be Lei Shi to help the elementals not %%*%%%@% your raid.

Mortal Coil: Actually a very-useful talent for raiding. It's a 15% instant cast heal on a 45 second cooldown. I generally take this 95% of the time. I wouldn't use it on CD even if you aren't at 100% HP, but I would use it if you feel in danger of dying or if you think your healers need help. A little trick: When you are working on Garalon/ H Garalon, you can shoot it out as he is in the air about to Crush, and the heal will go off right after the damage if you time it right. (Very useful on H Garalon as Crush damage+Pheremones is insane damage to heal)

Shadowfury: I'm not gonna call this talent bad, because it's not at all. If you feel it will help your raid, take it by all means. I don't use it much just because there are longer/better AoE stuns your raid has access to and I would use the longer stuns first. (Leg Sweep/Shockwave) If your raid needs it, take it! It's a very fast, decent sized ranged-AoE stun.

Tier 3:

Sacrificial Pact/Dark Bargain: Realistically, Sacrificial Pact is the better choice as it will prevent more damage over the course of the fight. However, Dark Bargain is a good idea to have on most fights as it works as a good "OH-!@#$" button. If you feel confident in your raid awareness 100% of the time, I would take Sac Pact. Some fights you will need Dark Bargain though, just make sure you SCREAM at your healers when you use it because most of them don't have the debuff on Grid yet, and if there is on-going damage during the DoT, you are in some real trouble. However, if you are being used to absorb very high damage, Dark Bargain works VERY well with Unending Resolve. (ie: soaking sparks on Will)

Random Tip for Affliction: If you have sacrifice and are in a Mind Control effect that breaks on a certain % of your health (Vizier/Sha of Anger), you can hit this and it will nuke half your current health which will usually instantly break you out. And you get a HUGE 400-500k shield for 20 seconds!)

Soul Link: The talent itself is useless, the only reason you see people take it is if they are soloing old content or they are using Sacrifice pet. (Sacrificing a pet with soul link gives you 20% bonus HP) <<Mostly for affliction.

Tier 4:

This tier is very underwhelming and I wouldn't mind removing/redoing all of the abilities.

Blood Fear: Strictly an over-powered PvP talent that is getting changed next patch. If it stays the way it is on 5.2 notes, you will never see a warlock use this talent ever again. Due to the extreme lack of other options in Tier 4, I could see it being ok to use if you want a quick-instant CC (Lei Shi). Once again, they're better CC options your raid will definitely have access too, but if they want you to have it, take it. It costs 10% of your hp, don't forget that.

Burning Rush: Seems useful, and is what you take 70% of the time, but is actually very underwhelming. I honestly use this spell to get back from wipes faster. Yes, it has it's uses during mechanics but it's very clunky. Not only does it cost a GCD to activate it, but if you forget to turn it off, 10 seconds of BR on is 40% of your HP. That's extremely dangerous. If you feel you need to get somewhere faster, or you want to negate the slow from Kil Jaeden's Cunning, go for it just remember to turn it off! It does come in handy on H Blade Lord during Blade Tempest if you don't feel like you are gonna make it out.

Unbound Will: I actually really like this talent, and it has quiet a few uses this tier. It works like the human racial/PVP trinket and it also removes all magic effects on you. It's on an extremely short CD for the effectiveness of it too. Just be careful, as it does have a pretty high health cost. If you think you will be ok, use it. You can always mortal coil after too, but it usually shouldn't be too much strain on your healers. Definitely grab this on Wind Lord to break out of Amber Prison. It doesn't debuff you. I would consider this on Spirit Kings, (Heroic Spirit Kings you might want Burning Rush if you are learning the fight, there is lots of running). Shek'zeer to break out of fear. I would be careful about using it on H though, as your healer should be able to dispel you, but just in case it's ok. Sha of Fear in case you get feared by dread spray. (I would learn how to dodge it though, as it will be required for the achievement/heroic) I don't think it works for the H Elegon stun from soaking the Annihilation, but you should be affliction for that fight.

Tier 5:

http://simulationcraft.org/510/Pets_and_Grimoires_-_Demonology.html

Grimoire of Supremacy: As you can see, Grimoire of Service is slightly ahead of Supremacy. If you use this for whatever reason, use the Wrathguard. There's not much to say about this, as I never use it. It's not really bad though, I just take service because it is slightly better.

Grimoire of Service: This is just slightly better than Supremacy, but I really like it. You get another cooldown, which adds to the whole feel of Demonology. I play demonology for the burst damage it brings, and this does just that. This is the primary talent for single target and AoE. You want to prioritize using this when there is burst AoE, but you want to keep it on cooldown. I'll explain how to use this later.

Grimoire of Sacrifice: This does exactly what it says. It sacrifices your pet. You are a DEMONOLOGY warlock. Besides it making no sensem this is actually a huge DPS loss under service/supremacy. I literally see no point to ever taking this. The only point I'd ever take this, is to feel like a warrior and Sac a felguard and charge a target dummy? Idk. Affliction/Destro talent.

Tier 6:

Archimonde's Vengeance: This talent makes me very upset. It was 25% on the beta. They said it was too weak, so they buffed it to a higher %. They called it OP when it was around 40%, so instead of putting it somewhere in between 25-40%, they put it back to 25%. Makes sense right? Technically, on a Patchwerk fight with NO movement, this is the *cringe* highest DPS gain. I say that lightly, because for a 90 talent, this is absolute garbage. There are also no fights this tier I would take this over KJC/MF. If you MUST use it, make sure to actually use the activation effect during heavy raid damage. (As a warlock though, you should never use this just so blizzard gets the point that it is total trash and eventually removes/changes/buffs it.)

Kil'Jaeden's Cunning: This was recently buffed in 5.1 to basically make warlocks 100% mobile. There are very few fights where the 30% slow actually will hurt/kill you. I would be careful on H Vizier/H Blade Lord. I would also never use the active unless you KNOW you wont be moving for a minute. A very amazing talent though. It's more attractive for Affliction because demonology is a very mobile spec due to ToC and leap. Still worth taking on fights you don't need the AoE Range on Carrion Swarm/Hellfire.

Tip: If you start a non-channeled spell while not running, you can actually move while casting and you won't get a stack of the slow debuff. I wouldn't worry about managing this too much, but it can help a tiny bit on some fights to not be slowed. (This is fixed on the PTR)

Mannoroth's Fury: Ahh, the talent that makes your whole realm/raid want to turn down their spell effects. I love and hate this talent at the same time. There is not much to say, it does exactly what it says. Take this on fights where you will be casting Hellfire/Void Ray/Carrion Swarm even once. You be the judge if it's worth dropping KJC for. This makes Carrion Swarm absolutely huge. It does not increase HoT/Shadowfury. I will explain in the suggestions what I don't like about this talent.

Tip: Obviously, this is very helpful on Lei Shi. On Normal, you shouldn't have much trouble getting him out of Hide quickly, but on Heroic it can make or break the attempt. What I would suggest doing to help your guild is to stand in the middle of the room, aim towards one side of the platform, cast carrion swarm. If you don't see numbers/vapor trail, run to the side you didn't check with hellfire on. You should be finding it the majority of the time. Don't forget to save Felstorm for helping damage! Demonology warlocks are huge for breaking Hide!

Glyphs:

Required:
Glyph of Imp Swarm: Instead of getting an Imp every 20 seconds, you get 5 imps instantly. The cooldown scales with haste. The downside to this is that you don't get the imps every 20 seconds while it is on CD.

This glyph used to be under discussion because people thought over longer fights, this was a DPS loss compared to just not using it. This glyph is actually a DPS increase in every situation. Not only is it a fury-generating cooldown, it does TONS of burst damage! The way you wanna use this glyph, is everytime it comes off cooldown, you want to wait 24 seconds for the passive effect to come up.

TL;DR: Cast it, when it comes off CD, wait for the Demonic Calling buff (I track this with Tellmewhen), then cast it again. You get 6 imps every 1:50ish minutes.

Glyph of Shadow Bolt: Separates your Shadow Bolt into 3 smaller bolts. It does the same damage. You take this for the sake of higher uptime on your intellect procs. It's a small dps gain, but since it's a minor glyph, it's worth taking!

Major:

I'm going to list some you should consider using, and some you should NEVER use.

Good:

Glyph of Demon Training: Gives your felguard 20% more hp. Good for keeping him alive, but it also gives you more of an absorb on your Sacrificial Pact.

Glyph of Healthstone: Raises your healthstone healing from 20%-40%, but makes it a HoT over 10 seconds. I feel this is very useful. It just increases your overall healing done, and the 5 seconds it takes to 20% should never be a life or death issue.

Glyph of Siphon Life: Useful for all 3 warlock specs, it's better for affliction, but it's still worth taking on fights where healing is an issue.

Glyph of Soul Consumption: Whenever you get a kill while in Demon Form, you get 20% of your health back. If you want insta-22 stacks of the buff on H Gara'jal, I'd take this for all 3 specs! Can be useful on some other fights, it heals for ALOT of mobs are constantly dying.

Glyph of Soulstone: I feel like warlocks should never be the ones to battle rez, but if your raid needs you to, this is the glyph you are gonna want to take. Try to push the fact that it's much better for a Druid/DK to do because it's instant!

Glyph of Life Tap: This glyph can be useful, but can also be dangerous. The only reason to take this glyph is to stop the over-healing you receive from life tapping on fights where there isn't much raid damage. Think about it, when you life tap when everyone besides the tank is at 100%, 5 healers are gonna all try to heal you at once. If you have this glyph, your health doesn't go down, you just soak up the overhealing you would already be taking from AoE raid heals. Careful though, it can kill you if you aren't careful, it stacks up to about 2.7 million healing absorb if you want to troll healers.

Glyph of Fear: Decent for Challenge Modes if you have to be CCing where you can't have the add fleeing.

Minor:

Demonology has a lot of fun/useful minor glyphs.

Glyph of Carrion Swarm: This should really be required, but since some raid groups might want the knock back, I'll leave it here for now. I use this 100% of the time though since there are better knock-backs your raid can have, and I use Carrion Swarm VERY often. (I'm not saying it's bad to use it for the knockback, I'm just saying the knockback is weak compared to others but if your raid needs it, ie H Tsulong, then by all means take it!)

Glyph of Falling Meteor: Very interesting glyph, if you use leap while falling, you turn into a meteor, and you fall much faster and take close to 0% fall damage. Not very useful for this tier, but it's awesome!

Glyph of Felguard: I love this glyph! Let's you transmog your felguard's weapon! It doesn't offer any DPS increase and it's purely cosmetic, but it's still awesome! Oh, it picks a RANDOM item in your "backpack." Not the whole 5 bags, just the default 16 slot bag you've had since level one. If you want to use a specific weapon, make sure it's the only one in your 16 slot default backpack. It has to be in your backpack to work. This also works with the Wrathguard, and he will dual-wield!

Glyph of Hand of Gul'dan: This makes does exactly as it says. I feel like it actually increases the radius of HoG, but I'm not 100% sure on that. I personally don't use this because it can feel clunky when you have 2 charges and the green circle doesn't go away. I feel it's a DPS loss to use on single target because it will probably slow you down a little bit. But if you feel you can do it perfectly, use it! I would consider it on when you are using your HoG strictly to AoE though.

Glyph of Health Funnel: Your pet will either die in like half a second, or stay at 100%. If you feel your pet staying at low HP, you can always take this, but beware, it does cost a GCD and will eat some of your health. Healers should be keeping your pet up, but if they aren't and you are using Sacrificial Pact, by all means, take it.

Glyph of Soulwell: Purely cosmetic, but awesome, and somewhat helpful. Leaves a huge green circle, so don't cast it where you will be during the fight.

Never Use/Bad:

Glyph of Demon Hunting: I feel bad putting this here because of how awesome it is. This pretty much turns you into a Demon Tank and gives you wings! I rock this while I'm questing just because of how cool the wings look, but as for raiding, it's a huge DPS loss. If you feel like tanking a 5 man heroic though, this will totally work. You will take less damage than some under-geared tanks actually, and the physical part scales with your mastery. The reason you can't use this while raiding is because it gives you 500% bonus threat. You will pull in 1 HoG and be miles over the tank. Not to mention, like stance dancing, this resets your fury to 200. I'm working on a way for this to work as a type of cooldown during some fights. The idea I have is that if you are under 200 fury, you can pop in this, use your Q 3 times, and pop a fury ward, then hop back out. This is totally just theorycraft I've been working on, don't actually do it! Discussion welcome though.

Glyph of Dark Soul: What this does, is nerf your active Dark Soul stats by 10%, and gives them to you passively. That sounds like it might work, but the only way you get the passive is if Dark Soul is OFF cooldown. Not only do you lose 10% of the active effect, but you won't gain the passive because Dark Soul should never be off CD for more than 10-15 seconds. NEVER TAKE THIS UNLESS YOU ARE DOING DAILIES IN DREAD WASTES WITH LUCIDITY BUFF!

Glyph of Everlasting Affliction: I'm not going to get into the math of this glyph, but the -20% damage, isn't worth the 50% bonus duration. Corruption is easy to keep up most of the time with Touch of Chaos, and Doom is a minute-long dot. Don't even consider this glyph!

Glyph of Shadowflame: Basically, you lose out on SO much damage if you take this glyph, and the gain is so minimal. Shadowflame from HoG is 60% at 2 stacks. You basically gain a 10% slow, for half as long as the 60% slow, and you lose HALF of the damage from HoG/shadowflame and HALF the fury gain. It's TERRIBLE.
Edited by Pyru on 3/4/2013 7:47 PM PST
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90 Troll Warlock
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3. Secondary Stats/Gems/Reforging

As demonology, you are going to want to prioritize intellect. As you gear up, you always want to compare the intellect values, as intellect stat for stat gives you the highest DPS.

Demonology is very confusing to properly gem/reforge. The general outline of it is this:

Intellect-> Hit Rating 14.00%+ -> Mastery = Crit = Haste

Intellect: Spell Power and a small amount of crit. It will be your primary stat.

Hit: Hit rating is a little different then it was in Cata. If you can get to 15.00%, do it. This is all preference. I personally prefer sitting around 14.00%. Anywhere between 13.00-15.00% is good. That's up to you.

Haste: Reduces the cast times, makes your dots tick faster, (even doom), reduces your GCD, makes your pets attack/cast faster and reduces the cooldown on Wild Imps.

Mastery: Increases the damage you do in caster form and the damage your pets do. It increases the damage you do in Demon Form by a huge amount.

Crit: Crit has a chance to double all damage you and your pet do by 100%. Critical Doom ticks proc a Wild Imp and it increases the damage of soul fire.

Mastery, Crit, and Haste are so close, that you will actually have to run a SimCraft on your gear to find out what stat weights are better for you. Lots of top demonology warlocks are doing different things. I've tryed going 4717 haste -> all mastery, ive gone mastery>crit>haste, crit>mastery>haste, and haste>mastery>crit. Right now, I'm going Crit>Mastery>Haste. This is really up to what your Sim says.

Gems:
Red: 160 Intellect
Yellow: 80 Int/ 80 Haste/Mastery/Crit (Depending on what your sim says is your highest secondary)
Blue: 80 Int/160 Hit 320 hit is OK if you need it.

Don't copy my armory, I am trying new things all the time and switch frequently. I am also currently gemmed for affliction.

Reforging:
For Reforging, you are going to want to get an addon called ReforgeLite. This addon finds the best possible way to reforge your gear to prioritize what stats you want. Put in your hit value: 4800 is what I use, it's around 14.00%. 5100 is 15%. Then put either mastery > haste > crit, crit>mastery>haste, mastery>crit>haste.

This sounds very vague and it's probably not what you are used to but that is literally how close the secondary stats are. I don't want to give you a guideline to follow that only works for my gear. It changes by every piece you get. If you can't find stat weights for your character, just go Hit = 14-15%>Intellect>Mastery>Crit>Haste.

4. Opener
The opener for Demonology is a very confusing subject for most people. There is alot you need to accomplish very quickly and it's not very straight-forward like other specs. This is what I've been using, if you think you have a better opener, I'm open to suggestions, but this I feel is the best way.

>> Pre-pot on 2 on the Pull Timer
>> Cast Shadow Bolt
>> Cast Corruption, Send Felguard in
>> Cast Hand of Gul'dan
>> Cast Imp Swarm
>> Cast Felguard Service
>> Cast Doomguard
>> Cast Hand of Gul'dan
>> Cast Felstorm, you want to cast felstorm when your felguard is at around 40 energy.
>> Meta
>> Cast Doom
>> Cast Touch of Chaos 2 times to refresh Corruption, and buff it with the Meta damage increase.
>> Get out of Meta
>> Cast any remaining Molten Core Procs you have left

5. Cooldown Management

You might be wondering why I didn't cast Dark Soul in the opener. I've done lots of testing on target dummies while using Dark Soul right before I cast Doom and when I have to first refresh Doom. I find the best time to cast Dark Soul is when you have around 600-700 fury. I generally try to do it right before the 2nd Doom tick. The way Doom and Pandemic works, is you can pop Dark Soul and if you refresh Doom right before it ticks, it will tick anyway with the newly refresh Doom damage.

Dark Soul Rotation:

>> Meta
>> Refresh Doom right before it ticks
>> Touch of Chaos spam until you can't

Imp Swarm

To make the best use out of this glyph, when it comes off CD you want to wait the 24ish seconds for the imp to proc. This lets you get 6 imps out every 2 minutes. Also be aware that this glyph is also good to use with Dark Soul if you can but don't hold Dark Soul for too long. I'd wait about 10 seconds to line them up, that's it. Wild Imps is also a very good source of Fury regeneration so if you low on fury a little before Dark Soul is up, it's sometimes useful to just use it right away instead of waiting the 24 seconds so you will have more fury going into the Dark Soul.

Hand of Gul'dan

HoG is a huge part of Demonology. This is a 2 charge AoE spell that has a low initial hit but a HUGE DoT attached. It also slows for the duration of the Shadowflame dot for 30%/60% depending on how many stacks. When shadowflame ticks you also get fury every second. Shadowflame also stacks up to 2 times so the most beneficial way to use this spell is to cast 1 charge, then wait till the dot is about to fall off and cast the second charge. The dot with our current haste levels lasts about 6 seconds. Depending on your haste, you can almost always cast 2 shadow bolt in between the 2 charges. There are alot of little combos you can do inbetween these charges.

2 Soul Fires and an instant
Meta and 4 Touch of Chaos
2 Shadow Bolts
3 Life Taps

The whole idea is to keep the dot up for the longest amount of time possible to get the most fury you can and to get the double stack damage. You ALWAYS want to use Hand of Gul'dan. Due to PvP nerfs, Chaos Wave is a waste of fury UNLESS the mobs need to die VERY fast and Shadowflame wont last at least 4 seconds on the targets. ie Feng

TL:DR Never use Chaos Wave unless the DoT won't last.

For AoE fights like Will of the Emperor, Shadowflame will be your 1st/2nd top damaging ability. If the mobs will only be up for about 7-8 seconds, just use HoG twice right away to get the double DoT stacking. When you use it on multiple targets, try to use some of your Molten Core procs so that you won't go over 10.

Grimoire of Service

This is the highest DPS Grimoire over Supremacy by about 80ish DPS. However, for fights where you want burst at certain parts of the fight, this is the grimoire to use for sure. ie Amber Shaper, Lei Shi. This talent gives you about 60 fury over the duration of it and alot of AoE/burst damage. It is worth it to wait about 10-15 seconds to line it up with Dark Soul but in most cases, cast it on CD.

Summon Doomguard

I don't think any locks have really confirmed when is the absolute best time to use it. Some people like it during lust, some people like it at the start of the fight, some people like it during the last 20%. If you have a lust during the last 20% that is probably the best time to use it but make sure it will be up for the full minute and make sure to use it with Dark Soul. I like to use it at the start of the fight with my prepot and all my trinkets/cds up, specially if there is a lust. Make sure to use it twice on the longer fights though.

Felstorm/Wrathstorm

This is your felguard's Bladestorm ability. Make sure to use it on CD but make sure to use it when there are alot of adds as it does full damage to all adds. Also make sure to not use it when your felguard is at 100% energy because he will not be able to stun/mortal cleave while he is spinning.
Edited by Pyru on 2/12/2013 7:02 PM PST
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90 Troll Warlock
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6. Single Target Rotation/Priority List

The basic priority list is this:

Cooldowns:

Dark Soul
Summon Doomguard
Grimoire of Service
Glyph of Imp Swarm

Generating Fury:

Corruption
Hand of Gul'dan
Soul Fire with Molten Core
Shadow Bolt

Spending Fury:

Doom
Touch of Chaos
Under 25%, ToC to refresh Corr, otherwise spam Soul Fire

General:

>>Keep Doom up 100%. Sometimes it is beneficial to let the last tick hit if it is alot stronger than what you would be refreshing it with. (A good way to track this is the addon called Affdots)
>>Keep Corruption up with Touch of Chaos
>>Use Cooldowns on CD. (Check Cooldowns Section)
>>Use Hand of Gul'dan with >6 seconds before the 2nd charge.
>>Use Soulfire with Molten Core procs
>>Spam Shadow Bolt.
>>Under 25% spam Soul Fire.

Molten Core

Soul Fire with MC up gives you 5 more fury then shadow bolt does, does slightly more damage, and has a faster cast time. In demon form, yes, it does more damage but it still costs 80 fury. It's ok to cast Soul Fire if you have Doom/HoG hitting multiple targets because you will have more then enough Molten Core procs.

Basically, don't cast it in Demon Form unless you have a huge surplus of Molten Core procs. Under 25%, you spam it as your filler in meta and in caster form though.
Edited by Pyru on 2/12/2013 7:06 PM PST
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reserved
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RESREDSERSDESRR
Edited by Pyru on 1/1/2013 12:57 AM PST
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Very nice
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01/01/2013 12:51 AMPosted by Pyru
Harvest Life: I actually think this talent is complete trash for all 3 specs. I will explain why in the AoE section. The only time it would ever be used is if you had to AoE and you couldn't be within 25 yards of the boss. (Not common at all)

Thi Talent is really good in raids for you gain Demonic Fury faster on mobs. All of the ne raids have tons of adds you also heal and do damage at the same time. It should be never used in demon form period.

Glyph of Falling Meteor: Very interesting glyph, if you use leap while falling, you turn into a meteor, and you fall much faster and take close to 0% fall damage. Not very useful for this tier, but it's awesome!
There bosses that like to pop you in the air. This is the best counter to this. To also add the Demonic teleport does not share the same CD as your caster form. When both are on CD to avoid HIGH damage use this glyph.

Glyph of Demon Hunting: I feel bad putting this here because of how awesome it is. This pretty much turns you into a Demon Tank and gives you wings! I rock this while I'm questing just because of how cool the wings look, but as for raiding, it's a huge DPS loss. If you feel like tanking a 5 man heroic though, this will totally work. You will take less damage than some under-geared tanks actually, and the physical part scales with your mastery. The reason you can't use this while raiding is because it gives you 500% bonus threat. You will pull in 1 HoG and be miles over the tank. Not to mention, like stance dancing, this resets your fury to 200. I'm working on a way for this to work as a type of cooldown during some fights. The idea I have is that if you are under 200 fury, you can pop in this, use your Q 3 times, and pop a fury ward, then hop back out. This is totally just theorycraft I've been working on, don't actually do it! Discussion welcome though.
you can actully use it for raids to get out of crazy Stuff like Vizer is a good example for fury ward can save you from Most of his moves. And also s of 5.1 Fury ward does not share the same CD with Twilight ward.

Glyph of Hand of Gul'dan: This makes does exactly as it says. I feel like it actually increases the radius of HoG, but I'm not 100% sure on that. I personally don't use this because it can feel clunky when you have 2 charges and the green circle doesn't go away. I feel it's a DPS loss to use on single target because it will probably slow you down a little bit. But if you feel you can do it perfectly, use it! I would consider it on when you are using your HoG strictly to AoE though.
No it only spreads if you got Mannaroth's fury with that glyph.

Glyph of Carrion Swarm: This should really be required, but since some raid groups might want the knock back, I'll leave it here for now. I use this 100% of the time though since there are better knock-backs your raid can have, and I use Carrion Swarm VERY often.
y re ppl using this glyph! The knockback is amazing mobs that like to fixate its very useful when combining this with Demonic leap you get more distance from you opponent. For PvP you can throw ppl off cliffs with this.

Over all this sounds more like an affliction warlock is just copying and pasting from another forums and putting his splash of things in it. Stick with affliction and shut your mouth.
Edited by Endymios on 1/2/2013 5:39 AM PST
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90 Orc Warlock
11360
Endy almost nothing you said holds true on any normal/heroic mode boss this tier. Let the man do his work. I see no problem with this guide.

Required:
Glyph of Imp Swarm: Instead of getting an Imp every 20 seconds, you get 5 imps instantly. The cooldown scales with haste. The downside to this is that you don't get the imps every 20 seconds while it is on CD.

This glyph used to be under discussion because people thought over longer fights, this was a DPS loss compared to just not using it. This glyph is actually a DPS increase in every situation. Not only is it a fury-generating cooldown, it does TONS of burst damage! The way you wanna use this glyph, is everytime it comes off cooldown, you want to wait 24 seconds for the passive effect to come up.


This is the only part that concerns me. Over 5 minutes without the glyph you get 15 imps. With it even the way you're suggesting to use it you still get only 12. I fail to see how this can in any way add up to more damage unless I'm missing something huge. Do you mind explaining? Thank you.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
12995
Just gonna touch on the whole soulstone thing.

unless the druid is balance, warlocks should always be the ones doing the rezzes, unless you've got a dps dk.

resto druids can't waste time rezzing when they should be healing.
from a dk tank standpoint using blood tap, I'm constantly rp starved keeping myself at 10 stacks for that clutch death strike, I can't afford the rp to rez someone.

sure, you lose a gcd and soulstone has a small cast time, but the 2-3 seconds you lose on dps<healing from a druid or rp from a dk tank.
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90 Gnome Warlock
12555


This is the only part that concerns me. Over 5 minutes without the glyph you get 15 imps. With it even the way you're suggesting to use it you still get only 12. I fail to see how this can in any way add up to more damage unless I'm missing something huge. Do you mind explaining? Thank you.


With 4 piece I get those imps supercharged with DS, where otherwise the normal wouldn't.
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90 Undead Warlock
12250
I currently have no 4 piece, but i love glyph of imp swarm. i personally save it for when i pop DS, so i end up with even more burst as all demon damage scales with mastery. This seems to work well for me and i get the benefit of the normal procs of DC with the amazing burst of DS. I would assume that with a four set it would still be a strong burst cd.

With regards to soul link, i think this is an under rated talent. I like to use this on a number of fights. It gives you the most effective health of any talent combination when combined with glyph of demon training. raid buffed i have over 600k health with this. It also allows me to double dip when it comes to raid healing, with little penalty to increased aoe damage. It also provides protection from numerous unforeseeable burst damage. It also increases the amount healed by your percent heals, as your health is considered one pool. I dont see this as a useless talent, and think that it is better than many give it credit for.
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90 Undead Warlock
12250
Additionaly, i would like to add that im happy you made this thread, cuz there are no good Demo discussion threads, and i have thought many times about making one to go over the finer details of the spec, as it its the greatest spec ever made.
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90 Orc Warlock
11360
01/03/2013 03:24 AMPosted by Irsemployee
Additionaly, i would like to add that im happy you made this thread, cuz there are no good Demo discussion threads, and i have thought many times about making one to go over the finer details of the spec, as it its the greatest spec ever made.


This.

01/03/2013 01:52 AMPosted by Merlins
With 4 piece I get those imps supercharged with DS, where otherwise the normal wouldn't.


I can see maybe having all 5 buffed with DS every time might would increase their damage enough to make up for the lost imps. Idk. It would require math that I currently can't do because the gear gods of WoW are currently at full out war with my account. Interesting theory that I never thought of though. When/if I ever get 4 set I'll be sure to give that a try.
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90 Undead Warlock
12980
Yay finally some demo discussion!

I'm wondering if any of you can tell me some useful demo addons. I'm currently only using tidyplates and affdots. I find that I'm sometimes letting my HoG reset to 2 stacks, which is probably a loss in DPS, assuming it stops charging when it hits 2. I also have a difficult time keeping tabs on both my mana and fury bar while learning this spec. I don't suppose anyone has a Weak Auras setup that I could use which consolidates all of that information? Everything I look up seems to be outdated by years. XD
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90 Worgen Warlock
12195

Glyph of Carrion Swarm: This should really be required, but since some raid groups might want the knock back, I'll leave it here for now. I use this 100% of the time though since there are better knock-backs your raid can have, and I use Carrion Swarm VERY often.
y re ppl using this glyph! The knockback is amazing mobs that like to fixate its very useful when combining this with Demonic leap you get more distance from you opponent. For PvP you can throw ppl off cliffs with this.

Over all this sounds more like an affliction warlock is just copying and pasting from another forums and putting his splash of things in it. Stick with affliction and shut your mouth.


And why the hell are you talking about knockback uses in PvP when the thread is about Raiding Demonology.....the spell can be unglyphed for situational knockback uses, but every other time its glyphed so it can be part of an AoE roation.

You don't even raid.. and you're trolling a raiding thread.

To OP, very well written thread. Any time a lock gives tips and tricks for encounters, I love it. For Lei Shi do you just always ensure you have a fury pool saved for keep away if you are taking Mannoroths fury for hide?
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90 Gnome Warlock
12555


To OP, very well written thread. Any time a lock gives tips and tricks for encounters, I love it. For Lei Shi do you just always ensure you have a fury pool saved for keep away if you are taking Mannoroths fury for hide?


I try and save the Fury for Keep away. he follows a certain pattern once the fight starts, it changes every wipe. Mostly he does Keep away at the start, but sometimes trows in a hide.

If you save your fury bar for Keep away, no one will touch you on damage for it, especially with imps and service felgaurd and ds.

Mammoths fury is great for finding him when he hides, hellfire is good here also.

Be careful on the element phase as the felgaurd cleave will break cc on them, I always put him on stay as soon as that phase starts then banish fear the adds I am assigned to.
Remember to take him off stay as soon as phase ends.
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90 Undead Warlock
12250
In a efferot to make sure that this thread does not die, and gets the attention that it should, im going to discuss my opening and mindset when playing demo.

My general goal with opening a fight is to start building as much DF as possible, while still pulling out as much dps as I can. This is something that I would consider would be any warlocks goal, and im sure that there are many locks out there that have thought about their openings allot, and have found interesting ways of achieving this goal.

Keep in mind that when weighting this I did not have my 4 set and the trinkets that I where using where the trinket off of elegon, and the DMF caster trinket. My opening may change should any of these major dps components change. The play style that I enjoy for demo is a style that heavily emphasizes lining up all of my CDs with meta, and being reliant that burst phase to do most of my damage. This play style is reflected in my reforming and stat priorities, and I will discuss these at the bottom of my post.



OPENING

Typically on progression bosses I prepot at about the 2-3 second mark before the pull (almost feels like a waste with how low our caster form dps is, but every bit helps). I then follow this up immediately with Hand of Guldan because of its travel time as well as because of the CD length and DF generation from the spell. Then assuming you don't have someone else that can do it I would then put up CoE, followed by Corruption. Up to this point it would be my guess that so far this is how most demo locks open up, and the actions that follow would be the most varied between players.

Following this initial set up I typically cast a shadow bolt while I wait for shadow flame to get to about 1 second left on its timer so that I can recast HoG. From here I will then continue to cast 2-3 shadow bolts as I wait for trinkets to proc, and I will also use Soul fire should it proc in this time. By now my trinkets should all be proced, and there may be a second or two on HoG. If there is only just a second or two on HoG I will wait to cast that, but if not, I pop Meta and immediately apply doom. Then from there I spam ToC until ether I am at 100 DF, or one of my trinket procs is about to fall off. When ether of these two things occur, I immediately reapply doom, and do one last ToC so that both my dots are up for their maximum possible duration. I then go back to my typical caster rotation of SB and SF, as well as reapplying corruption whenever it is a damage increase, or is completing its last tick of a higher damage value than the one that I can apply.

Up to this point I have not used Dark Soul, Imp Swarm, or any on use trinkets that I might of had with CDs roughly equal to the ICD of my proc trinket. I instead save these CD's until my trinket(s) proc again when I have enough DF to take the full advantage of their up time. When this happens I simply pop all of my damage CD's including Imp swar, and then go into meta. From here I first reapply doom so that it will benefit from all of the damage procs and then I will spam ToC until my last major proc falls off, which is typically all around the same time, and then I go back to my normal caster rotation.

From there on out I follow the general goal of using Meta only when I have both trinkets proced, am high on DF, when DS is up, or when something needs to die that instant. I also like to save my imp swarm for when I pop DS because I like burst dps, and it may or may not be a dps increase.



MY STATS

With my stats and reforging I typical favor Mastery>Crit>Haste. I am a big fan of mastery because not only does it not have any DR, but it dips into so many aspects of the spec. It gives you and your pets a static % increase in dps, as well as 3X that increase while in meta, and as I mentioned earlier I really like meta burst. This being said, there are a few things that I am unsure about in terms of what stats are best.

There are some simulations that suggest crit may be slightly better than mastery, but I have never felt that these simulations accurately reflect the incredible complexity of the meta dance mixed with the raid environment, as well as crit increases RNG, and I like having more control over my damage.

Next there is the haste dilemma, I personally don't like haste that much, and with my current gear and play style, things seem to be lining up nicely right now without pushing for an extra tick of doom, and I haven't done that math on this, so I can't really say for sure, but my gut seems to tell me that unless you plan on playing affliction for a number of progression fights, there is no need to push for this cap. As I dont expect that the damage increase from the extra doom ticks will be that significant when compared to the burst dps loss from CDs+meta, as well as the ability to pick and choose when to use that damage. Im sure that when this extra doom tick becomes easier to reach in latter tiers, it will be worth it, but until then, I like mastery.





How do you open up your rotation and reforge your gear????
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90 Worgen Warlock
18035
Up!

and
Be careful on the element phase as the felgaurd cleave will break cc on them, I always put him on stay as soon as that phase starts then banish fear the adds I am assigned to.


Out of curiosity, you don't just cleave them all down?
Edited by Ezzyz on 2/4/2013 11:24 PM PST
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90 Worgen Warlock
HiJ
9275
Hmm, I sort of wish the OP would write the rest of this. Re: carrion swarm, if you aren't using the knockback on Feng you will definitely want it on Tsulong.

02/04/2013 11:22 PMPosted by Ezzyz
Out of curiosity, you don't just cleave them all down?
They kill people if you do that :(
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90 Gnome Warlock
11160
Well written and informative, Stick(y) this up there with the other guides imo.
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