@Blizz: Make the Holy Dps Spec -- easy way

100 Pandaren Priest
10505
01/20/2013 10:49 PMPosted by Zhengjin
I still believe Displine should be a holy casting dps spec. Displine was so similar to a caster dps spec before wrath kick in, besides why a class need 2 healing spec anyway, it is like having warrior having 2 tank spec, absolutely boring and pointless.


That was the plan i believe back in the day considering atonement was put in place to allow the disc priest to dps and heal at the same time. Then, they made chakra state: chastise give all dmg a 50% increase and that went out the window.

I agree with the general statement you made though.
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90 Worgen Mage
12575
I used to call discipline home, but I hate what they've done with it since early cata. Don't like spirit shell, not a big fan of super restrictive pw:s costs. Not sure if I'd like it all just disappearing though.
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90 Human Warlock
13045
A gimmic spec would have been shockadin back in the day as you had to talent carefully to do so. This is using exactly what the state is intended to be used for...dps as holy.

It seems that you are against a class that only has one single dps spec having another....now why is that? You picked a class with three dps specs....why aren't you happy for others getting a second?

Edit: You are quoting the pvp response....so, I have to ask, "What exactly is that post for?" Holy cannot dps competitively in pvp, so what exactly is your point?


My first sentence was a response to the PvP quote, the rest was a general response to the topic.

It's a gimmic spec in the sense that Blizzard didn't design Holy to be a competitive raid DPS spec; you're attempting to do something with the spec (DPS in a raid, specifically) that wasn't necessarily intended (i.e. not intended to replace Shadow as the go-to DPS raid spec).

As I said in that post of mine that you quoted, I'm pretty sure I remember the intent of healers getting the ability to DPS in a limited capacity was to: 1) Help healers do dailies to ease the silliness of having to spec and respec and 2) to help move things along a little faster in dungeons (and perhaps raids) when there is nothing else to do because you over gear the place.

To be clear, I am not against classes having more than 1 of any type of tree. What I don't like is ambiguity; either make it a DPS tree, or a healing tree, but not both. If they want you to have a Holy DPS spec, I feel like they should make a Holy DPS spec (one that doesn't have to use Shadow spells *COUGH*), and not try to cram it into an existing healing tree.
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100 Pandaren Priest
10505
A gimmic spec would have been shockadin back in the day as you had to talent carefully to do so. This is using exactly what the state is intended to be used for...dps as holy.

It seems that you are against a class that only has one single dps spec having another....now why is that? You picked a class with three dps specs....why aren't you happy for others getting a second?

Edit: You are quoting the pvp response....so, I have to ask, "What exactly is that post for?" Holy cannot dps competitively in pvp, so what exactly is your point?


My first sentence was a response to the PvP quote, the rest was a general response to the topic.

It's a gimmic spec in the sense that Blizzard didn't design Holy to be a competitive raid DPS spec; you're attempting to do something with the spec (DPS in a raid, specifically) that wasn't necessarily intended (i.e. not intended to replace Shadow as the go-to DPS raid spec).

As I said in that post of mine that you quoted, I'm pretty sure I remember the intent of healers getting the ability to DPS in a limited capacity was to: 1) Help healers do dailies to ease the silliness of having to spec and respec and 2) to help move things along a little faster in dungeons (and perhaps raids) when there is nothing else to do because you over gear the place.

To be clear, I am not against classes having more than 1 of any type of tree. What I don't like is ambiguity; either make it a DPS tree, or a healing tree, but not both. If they want you to have a Holy DPS spec, I feel like they should make a Holy DPS spec (one that doesn't have to use Shadow spells *COUGH*), and not try to cram it into an existing healing tree.


Ahh clarity...

The reason healers were given dps tools was for leveling purposes. Some ppl, i don't know why, just really like healing specs in pve questing. So, they gave healers the ability to kill stuff as they are questing, which is why you see all healers with the 15% hit baked into the spec. Holy, as of yet, is not the go-to spec as ppl are against it, have geared for Shadow, or believe shadow is leaps and bounds above so don't care. I, personally, just like to be able to be a priest again.

I do agree that there needs to be a final say in this and let it be done. That is why I said from the beginning to dual purpose the mastery and be done as the spec is already self-sufficient as is. They just need to finish it with a very minor addition. As for the last part, all hybrid specs that are dps will use the same spells to an extent. Really, the only main spell i use of shadow is pain as it's all i really have access to with mb being stripped from all but shadow. I smite and fire with pain adding in dmg just to have be there.

What will be interesting, someone who does math get on this, is to see how the new solace change affects holy dps as we'll have to choose to either hard cast fire or give up the mind binder. I'm tempted to just hard cast, tbh, as binder is just too great of a dps cd.

Sidenote: They need to remove the dmg limitation on Halo already and let it do it's dmg at w/e range you are standing. I'm not saying this b/c i want to be lazy (yes please), but having to stand 25 yds to get a max yield with a (about to be with glyph which I will be taking) 40 yard spell set. This primary affects shadow atm, which is beyond annoying to me. Either that or buff the other two to give us a choice. The DStar buff, i seriously doubt, will be anything substantial in terms of replacing halo unless it will crit for 250k.
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90 Human Warlock
6135
WTF healers complaining they have too many healing trees? How about give it to the rest of us so we can skip the hour long queues. Ungrateful bastards. If Holy gets a DPS spec I demand healing spec.
Edited by Lilicia on 1/21/2013 2:43 AM PST
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100 Pandaren Priest
10505
01/21/2013 02:43 AMPosted by Lilicia
WTF healers complaining they have too many healing trees? How about give it to the rest of us so we can skip the hour long queues. Ungrateful bastards. If Holy gets a DPS spec I demand healing spec.


You are in left field here...try this again
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90 Gnome Monk
6495
01/21/2013 02:43 AMPosted by Lilicia
WTF healers complaining they have too many healing trees? How about give it to the rest of us so we can skip the hour long queues. Ungrateful bastards. If Holy gets a DPS spec I demand healing spec.


If you want skip hour long que you would roll a healing class in the first place>
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53 Blood Elf Priest
7480
Since the thread seems to be gaining some discussion and argument I thought I would give a few ideas on how the Holy DPS spec could function or just some frills and mechanics.

I'd personally call the spec "Inquisitor" or "Confessor" (after our two actual smite priests Whitemane and Paltress)

-It would of course use Smite and Holy Fire.
-Holy nova would become a base-line Aoe (with greatly reduced healing).
-The spec would be based more on Holy than discipline (for thematic reasons).
-Atonement could become a raid utility CD. (activate it and your DPS provides healing, much like the shaman's ancestral guidance).
-Our shadow dots would transform into holy equivalents at certain levels which would provide a new mechanic
-SW:P could become Holy Word: Confession (a stacking dot that does damage and occasionally resets the CD on Holy fire if at full stacks)
-SW: Death could become Holy Word: Divinity (a finisher move which floods the target's body with holy energy exorcising evil from them)
-Holy fire would become a dual-school spell combining Fire and Holy damage to combat school lockouts.
-We could also get a stun spell like Chastise so Holy priests could keep their. It could be called Excommunicate and it would also be dual-school holy/fire. You inflict a Holy symbol onto the target stunning them for x sec.)
-Even though it isn't changed for any of the other priest specs, we could have our sfiend changed into a holy servitor who would inflict holy damage rather than shadow.
-Existing talents wouldn't need a large amount of tweaking as they are already made with DPS in mind. (but Solace would probably need to be changed as it would be a practically required choice unless it was given a decent CD)

Anyone else have some ideas?
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100 Blood Elf Priest
5170
Ok, so this is a bit Necromatic of me. Please forgive me, but I believe the reason that Holy can never be more than a gimmick spec is because you cannot resist it. There are no defenses against holy, so if it were to become a true dps class that had the deeps a mage or lock could have, it would become a tier 1 class immediately.

You wouldn't be able to miss (or very rarely would) and so you're dps would be far too consistent and outstrip many other classes. I'm currently rolling a holy priest, and in 5 dungeons I'm consistently destroying all other dps classes, even though I don't have any BOA's. it isn't that I have particularly amazing talents, I'm just using the holy fire/smite combo SW:p on bosses, and shadowfiend, but because I don't need hit (at all) and smite has a 1.5 sec cast time (one thats very short for it's damage output) I can just knock enemies down in seconds in PvE.

Blizzard will have a very long way to go to make Holy Dps, resistances are a must first off, and then we'll have to lose the 15% hit as well, which I'm rather unwilling to give up. Holy is just fine in terms of healing, chakra states are to boost your abilities, not to allow hybrid class specs.
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90 Human Priest
12075
Please no Ponderous.

I actually hoped they would Nerf Holy DPS, but haven't yet. Which makes me sad.
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100 Pandaren Priest
10505
Ok, so this is a bit Necromatic of me. Please forgive me, but I believe the reason that Holy can never be more than a gimmick spec is because you cannot resist it. There are no defenses against holy, so if it were to become a true dps class that had the deeps a mage or lock could have, it would become a tier 1 class immediately.

You wouldn't be able to miss (or very rarely would) and so you're dps would be far too consistent and outstrip many other classes. I'm currently rolling a holy priest, and in 5 dungeons I'm consistently destroying all other dps classes, even though I don't have any BOA's. it isn't that I have particularly amazing talents, I'm just using the holy fire/smite combo SW:p on bosses, and shadowfiend, but because I don't need hit (at all) and smite has a 1.5 sec cast time (one thats very short for it's damage output) I can just knock enemies down in seconds in PvE.

Blizzard will have a very long way to go to make Holy Dps, resistances are a must first off, and then we'll have to lose the 15% hit as well, which I'm rather unwilling to give up. Holy is just fine in terms of healing, chakra states are to boost your abilities, not to allow hybrid class specs.


Heh yeah, just a slight necro here =p

As for 'resists', all spells are treated the same now. Back in the day, we actually had to account for spell schools and the appropriate resists, but not anymore so no worries there. The 15% hit is just the icing on the cake for being holy. I think resto druids can do something of the same, just not to the same variance as holy. 1.5 casting times are common these days so that point is moot. As for 'killing everything in a few casts', have you seen shadow?

You are correct in that the dmg is constant, basically speaking, as all I have to gear for is haste/crit. Last night, watching nothing but 156k+ smites pop off was something I was O.O at. I was wondering when I was going to stop critting heh.

The point is that everything is already there. They just need to make a joint mastery and buff up the spell: chastise. It's meant to be a proc based CD spell with a base CD baked in...yet it's just not worth casting at all. It is meant to be used offensively, so let it.

@Woaden: But I don't want to be an inky blob anymore =( I like being a smite machine.
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90 Human Priest
12075
I sir, am *no* inky blob.

You're thinking of Mindbender.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
11105
I don't know if thats all it would take to get a balanced holy dps spec.

You would have to find a while to nerf the healing at the same time so that you don't have a spec that has good damage and retain most of its healing potential.

Something like this would definitely require a overhaul.
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100 Pandaren Priest
10505
I don't know if thats all it would take to get a balanced holy dps spec.

You would have to find a while to nerf the healing at the same time so that you don't have a spec that has good damage and retain most of its healing potential.

Something like this would definitely require a overhaul.


You tack it onto the chakra state...this is not hard at all.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
11105
You tack it onto the chakra state...this is not hard at all.


Which can be used in combat and has a 30 second cooldown? Thats not enough of a deterrent to stop "holy dps" spec'd players from just going heals mid-fight.
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100 Troll Hunter
17645
After what they did to DKs & Druids, I don't think they will ever make a dual-role spec again.

Now, they might give Priests a Holy DPS spec, or Paladins a Shockadin spec. That would be fun, IMO +)
Edited by Verdash on 3/29/2013 10:33 AM PDT
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100 Pandaren Priest
10505
03/29/2013 10:07 AMPosted by Kraddark
You tack it onto the chakra state...this is not hard at all.


Which can be used in combat and has a 30 second cooldown? Thats not enough of a deterrent to stop "holy dps" spec'd players from just going heals mid-fight.


Except the fact that we don't rock any spirit...so we're oom faster than any hybrid doing that.
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90 Undead Priest
19095
It's not about the easy or hard way, it's about Blizzard having stated they have no intention of making Holy an actual DPS spec. They were only OK with its damage in 5.1 because it was still behind Shadow by enough.
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1 Undead Priest
0
While they're at it, tanks should get healing abilities equivalent of healers and damage dealers should be able to heal and tank.

/sarcasm for those that didn't pick up on it.
Edited by Namedoesntfi on 3/31/2013 11:58 AM PDT
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100 Pandaren Priest
10505
It's not about the easy or hard way, it's about Blizzard having stated they have no intention of making Holy an actual DPS spec. They were only OK with its damage in 5.1 because it was still behind Shadow by enough.


If holy dmg is 'ok', then ret/ele (just off the top of my head) is down right terrible -- this could be fact, actually.

While they're at it, tanks should get healing abilities equivalent of healers and damage dealers should be able to heal and tank.


Have you seen classes as they level? Are we playing the same game here?
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