@Blizz: Make the Holy Dps Spec -- easy way

1 Undead Priest
0


Have you seen classes as they level? Are we playing the same game here?


You can respec shadow? Aside from that, since when is this game balanced around classes while leveling? Are we really playing the same game here?
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90 Pandaren Priest
8765


Have you seen classes as they level? Are we playing the same game here?


You can respec shadow? Aside from that, since when is this game balanced around classes while leveling? Are we really playing the same game here?


Oo Oo I can play this game too: You cannot fail at this sad attempt to troll. Aside from that, you made a blanket comment, and I gave you a blanket, generic invite. You may leave now.
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100 Human Paladin
13775
If they were ever to make something such as a holy dps spec for priests or paladins, I personally feel the only way to accomplish well, where it doesn't feel patched together, is to give them a 4th proper spec.

We dealth with bears and cats sharing the same feral tree for a long time, and it really limited what they could do with the spec, not to mention all the problems with death knights in wrath having 3 shared dps/tank specs. In the future, it would tie down the spec and makes it so any great ideas they have, will always have to work around the fact that the spec is dual role.

An entirely different spec gives MUCH more freedom in the design process, and I'd think if Blizzard ever was to consider something like this again, they'd add 4th spec like they ultimately ended up doing with druids.

Just my 2 copper. I'm not for or against the idea though.
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90 Human Paladin
9320
03/29/2013 10:07 AMPosted by Kraddark
You tack it onto the chakra state...this is not hard at all.


Which can be used in combat and has a 30 second cooldown? Thats not enough of a deterrent to stop "holy dps" spec'd players from just going heals mid-fight.

If you try playing the spec to optimized stat priorities, you'd know that there actually are issues with switching modes like this midfight since the stat priorities are very different.
Holy DPS: Int > enough Haste* > Crit > enough Spirit*. No Mastery whatsoever, because it's useless for DPS.

When you do switch to heals, you're running maybe... 4-5K spirit instead of 12K. You will OOM very quickly and it's very difficult to recover large amounts of Mana without Spirit as a Priest. Holy mastery is also a powerful efficiency stat, but you don't have that either. You need to put more of yourself into a Holy DPS role if you choose it than most people seem to think.
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90 Troll Druid
17085
It would be cool to see holy's echo of light mastery work for both damage AND healing. Makes mastery useful to both stances.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8765
04/01/2013 08:15 AMPosted by Misdirectomy


Which can be used in combat and has a 30 second cooldown? Thats not enough of a deterrent to stop "holy dps" spec'd players from just going heals mid-fight.

If you try playing the spec to optimized stat priorities, you'd know that there actually are issues with switching modes like this midfight since the stat priorities are very different.
Holy DPS: Int > enough Haste* > Crit > enough Spirit*. No Mastery whatsoever, because it's useless for DPS.

When you do switch to heals, you're running maybe... 4-5K spirit instead of 12K. You will OOM very quickly and it's very difficult to recover large amounts of Mana without Spirit as a Priest. Holy mastery is also a powerful efficiency stat, but you don't have that either. You need to put more of yourself into a Holy DPS role if you choose it than most people seem to think.


Thank you. The only fight i've ever done a real chakra switch was Tsulong, and I was able to do the switch thanks to the breath giving me back mana. As i said in another post to respond to the one you did, I have no mastery and I have no spirit. I OOM faster than any caster, literally, when I'm forced out of smite/holy fire and a few trickles of pain.

People have this really bad misconception that "Oh, you can dps AND heal -- no way!"...yeah, no....I can't. Not the way 'you' think I can at least.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8765
It would be cool to see holy's echo of light mastery work for both damage AND healing. Makes mastery useful to both stances.


I can dream!
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100 Night Elf Rogue
10695
If you try playing the spec to optimized stat priorities, you'd know that there actually are issues with switching modes like this midfight since the stat priorities are very different.
Holy DPS: Int > enough Haste* > Crit > enough Spirit*. No Mastery whatsoever, because it's useless for DPS.


If you read the original post he asked to switch the mastery to benefit dps or healing depending on your state.

When you do switch to heals, you're running maybe... 4-5K spirit instead of 12K. You will OOM very quickly and it's very difficult to recover large amounts of Mana without Spirit as a Priest. Holy mastery is also a powerful efficiency stat, but you don't have that either. You need to put more of yourself into a Holy DPS role if you choose it than most people seem to think.


You won't oom nearly as fast as an elemental shaman or feral druid trying to heal. The versatility is way too overpowered to be given to a damage dealer. The fact that you can go healing and be effective at it for a good length of time is what makes it overpowered. There are many mechanics designed to test your healers. A couple of "holy dps" priests can trivialize some boss abilities.

History has shown that dual-role specs just don't pan out. Either the healing will be gimped because of offensive capabilities or vice versa.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8765
If you try playing the spec to optimized stat priorities, you'd know that there actually are issues with switching modes like this midfight since the stat priorities are very different.
Holy DPS: Int > enough Haste* > Crit > enough Spirit*. No Mastery whatsoever, because it's useless for DPS.


If you read the original post he asked to switch the mastery to benefit dps or healing depending on your state.

When you do switch to heals, you're running maybe... 4-5K spirit instead of 12K. You will OOM very quickly and it's very difficult to recover large amounts of Mana without Spirit as a Priest. Holy mastery is also a powerful efficiency stat, but you don't have that either. You need to put more of yourself into a Holy DPS role if you choose it than most people seem to think.


You won't oom nearly as fast as an elemental shaman or feral druid trying to heal. The versatility is way too overpowered to be given to a damage dealer. The fact that you can go healing and be effective at it for a good length of time is what makes it overpowered. There are many mechanics designed to test your healers. A couple of "holy dps" priests can trivialize some boss abilities.

History has shown that dual-role specs just don't pan out. Either the healing will be gimped because of offensive capabilities or vice versa.


Yes, I asked for a dual mastery. This is so to make it appealing as Blizz has said they want everyone's mastery stat to be useful in some way to them. For Holy dps, currently, it is not. Thanks for reading.

An ele sham will not go oom before i will if we are spamming heals, period. They are rocking spirit...a lot more than my 2-3k that i have currently. As for trying to use ferals in that context, no...just no. It's a feral, ie. a melee, non caster hybrid. They aren't meant to be casting, hence the lack of int on any of their gear. Do not try to go out of your way to be that dense. You never go full retard when you have absolutely no reason to do so, so dial it back bud.

You are posting on a topic you have no clue on, so why are you? I am really curious. If you want the ins and outs of the spec, ask. Don't sit on this thread and pretend you know what you are typing about, b/c you don't. Now, currently, each point you try to make has been met with facts that shut them down...so unless you go do ur lil research and have something correct to post, go away.

edit: Please explain to me how I will trivialize a fight to the point where the threat becomes non-existent...i would love to hear this one. The only time I made a real difference was Tsulong since I could GA each healing phase for higher burst heals on the him....that is literally it. Or, are you still on this kick of me dropping chastise to sanct/seren and being able to blast out heals non-stop then switch magically back to chastise with full mana and continue on?
Edited by Ponderous on 4/3/2013 4:49 AM PDT
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100 Night Elf Rogue
10695
An ele sham will not go oom before i will if we are spamming heals, period. They are rocking spirit...a lot more than my 2-3k that i have currently. As for trying to use ferals in that context, no...just no. It's a feral, ie. a melee, non caster hybrid. They aren't meant to be casting, hence the lack of int on any of their gear. Do not try to go out of your way to be that dense. You never go full retard when you have absolutely no reason to do so, so dial it back bud.


Hybrid dps is hybrid dps.

Why are elemental shamans "rocking spirit?"

Ironically, Feral druids with dream are probably required to cast more healing spells than any of the dps hybrids.

Yes, I asked for a dual mastery. This is so to make it appealing as Blizz has said they want everyone's mastery stat to be useful in some way to them. For Holy dps, currently, it is not. Thanks for reading.


And it shouldn't be. If you read what I quoted she used mastery being bad as a reason why it would be balanced. In the scenario we are talking about mastery would be changed so it was not bad...You can't just ignore what I'm responding to. Its important in understanding the comment.

You are posting on a topic you have no clue on, so why are you? I am really curious. If you want the ins and outs of the spec, ask. Don't sit on this thread and pretend you know what you are typing about, b/c you don't. Now, currently, each point you try to make has been met with facts that shut them down...so unless you go do ur lil research and have something correct to post, go away.


Lol. You're all hostile now because someone disagrees with you?

Please explain to me how I will trivialize a fight to the point where the threat becomes non-existent...i would love to hear this one. The only time I made a real difference was Tsulong since I could GA each healing phase for higher burst heals on the him....that is literally it. Or, are you still on this kick of me dropping chastise to sanct/seren and being able to blast out heals non-stop then switch magically back to chastise with full mana and continue on?


You are acting as if we are talking about live. We are talking about after buffs to holy dps (specifically the buffs asked for in the OP).

You aren't even trying to read everything in context. Go back to the original post and read that. The fact is without a major overhaul, holy dps just isn't a good idea.
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90 Human Paladin
9320
04/03/2013 11:00 AMPosted by Kraddark
Why are elemental shamans "rocking spirit?"

The same reason shadow priests and boomkins do, because Spirit = hit in those specs for ease of gearing between magic DPS and healing for those classes. Spirit doesn't actually do anything for in combat regen in those specs, though.

Spirit does affect regen as Holy DPS, but the more Spirit you have the more you're slacking on Haste/Crit.
Edited by Misdirectomy on 4/3/2013 11:11 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
8765
04/03/2013 11:00 AMPosted by Kraddark
An ele sham will not go oom before i will if we are spamming heals, period. They are rocking spirit...a lot more than my 2-3k that i have currently. As for trying to use ferals in that context, no...just no. It's a feral, ie. a melee, non caster hybrid. They aren't meant to be casting, hence the lack of int on any of their gear. Do not try to go out of your way to be that dense. You never go full retard when you have absolutely no reason to do so, so dial it back bud.


Hybrid dps is hybrid dps.

Why are elemental shamans "rocking spirit?"

Ironically, Feral druids with dream are probably required to cast more healing spells than any of the dps hybrids.

Yes, I asked for a dual mastery. This is so to make it appealing as Blizz has said they want everyone's mastery stat to be useful in some way to them. For Holy dps, currently, it is not. Thanks for reading.


And it shouldn't be. If you read what I quoted she used mastery being bad as a reason why it would be balanced. In the scenario we are talking about mastery would be changed so it was not bad...You can't just ignore what I'm responding to. Its important in understanding the comment.

You are posting on a topic you have no clue on, so why are you? I am really curious. If you want the ins and outs of the spec, ask. Don't sit on this thread and pretend you know what you are typing about, b/c you don't. Now, currently, each point you try to make has been met with facts that shut them down...so unless you go do ur lil research and have something correct to post, go away.


Lol. You're all hostile now because someone disagrees with you?

Please explain to me how I will trivialize a fight to the point where the threat becomes non-existent...i would love to hear this one. The only time I made a real difference was Tsulong since I could GA each healing phase for higher burst heals on the him....that is literally it. Or, are you still on this kick of me dropping chastise to sanct/seren and being able to blast out heals non-stop then switch magically back to chastise with full mana and continue on?


You are acting as if we are talking about live. We are talking about after buffs to holy dps (specifically the buffs asked for in the OP).

You aren't even trying to read everything in context. Go back to the original post and read that. The fact is without a major overhaul, holy dps just isn't a good idea.


Mate, I AM the author of this thread...that is my alt. Gj. Also, no one is getting hostile with you...I am just flat out debunking what you said. If you take it hostile, that's on you. No one can make you feel a certain way unless you allow it.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
10695
Mate, I AM the author of this thread...that is my alt. Gj. Also, no one is getting hostile with you...I am just flat out debunking what you said. If you take it hostile, that's on you. No one can make you feel a certain way unless you allow it.


So you know that what I said was concerning a change to mastery and an increase to the damage of chastise.

Why would you fall back on anecdotal evidence, using examples from live to defend your hypothetical situation?...Nothing on live can defend the "overpowered-ness" of a dps/healing holy spec.

You haven't debunked anything.

Dual-role specs aren't balanced. Unlike normal hybrid dps, a single spec that performs multiple roles leaves too much utility. Especially now that you are awarded every single ability in the specialization.

You would literally have every single tool/ability a holy priest has to heal and then be given damage dealing abilities. You wouldn't have the regen of someone who geared to heal but for intense healing phases the ability to switch between roles is too strong and easily abused. You won't have infinite mana but you will have very, very potent heals. Heals as big as actual healers.

But this shouldn't come as a surprise to you. Its something blizz has tried before (Dks, druids). They tried it and removed it for a reason.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8765
04/03/2013 12:19 PMPosted by Kraddark
Mate, I AM the author of this thread...that is my alt. Gj. Also, no one is getting hostile with you...I am just flat out debunking what you said. If you take it hostile, that's on you. No one can make you feel a certain way unless you allow it.


So you know that what I said was concerning a change to mastery and an increase to the damage of chastise.

Why would you fall back on anecdotal evidence, using examples from live to defend your hypothetical situation?...Nothing on live can defend the "overpowered-ness" of a dps/healing holy spec.

You haven't debunked anything.

Dual-role specs aren't balanced. Unlike normal hybrid dps, a single spec that performs multiple roles leaves too much utility. Especially now that you are awarded every single ability in the specialization.

You would literally have every single tool/ability a holy priest has to heal and then be given damage dealing abilities. You wouldn't have the regen of someone who geared to heal but for intense healing phases the ability to switch between roles is too strong and easily abused. You won't have infinite mana but you will have very, very potent heals. Heals as big as actual healers.

But this shouldn't come as a surprise to you. Its something blizz has tried before (Dks, druids). They tried it and removed it for a reason.


You seriously did not read anything in this thread if this is what you are spouting. I need you to go back and re-read what has been offered up before you make another post.

I've already said this before to you, but I just don't switch when healing gets rough. You realize that my role is dps, right? So, if i just drop what i'm doing to heal for 30 sec, as that is my cd, I'm hurting my raid. Could i switch? Yes. Would I switch on something non-gimmic? No. It would deck my mana, thus gutting my dps...thus, hurting the raid more than me healing.

You are solely looking at stance dancing, except when I'm not in my 'stance', I am no longer a dps...which is a liability.

Again, you need to go back and read what has been posted before you make another post, or you will be flagged for trolling with the basic mindset of "lalalalalalalalalala i can't hear you over the priest healing and dpsing at the same time alalalalalallalalalal".
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100 Night Elf Rogue
10695
I've already said this before to you, but I just don't switch when healing gets rough. You realize that my role is dps, right? So, if i just drop what i'm doing to heal for 30 sec, as that is my cd, I'm hurting my raid. Could i switch? Yes. Would I switch on something non-gimmic? No. It would deck my mana, thus gutting my dps...thus, hurting the raid more than me healing.


You still have every single tool the healing holy priest has. Divine hymn, guardian spirit, light well, spirit of redemption. Stacking spirit has absolutely no effect on the potency of these abilities. When there are mechanics that involve healers coordinating their cooldowns, having a dps with fully effective healing cooldowns is just overpowered. Find me one example of another damage dealing spec with anywhere near the same level of utility. You can't because there aren't any.

How is that hard to understand?...
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90 Pandaren Priest
8765
04/03/2013 12:37 PMPosted by Kraddark
I've already said this before to you, but I just don't switch when healing gets rough. You realize that my role is dps, right? So, if i just drop what i'm doing to heal for 30 sec, as that is my cd, I'm hurting my raid. Could i switch? Yes. Would I switch on something non-gimmic? No. It would deck my mana, thus gutting my dps...thus, hurting the raid more than me healing.


You still have every single tool the healing holy priest has. Divine hymn, guardian spirit, light well, spirit of redemption. Stacking spirit has absolutely no effect on the potency of these abilities. When there are mechanics that involve healers coordinating their cooldowns, having a dps with fully effective healing cooldowns is just overpowered. Find me one example of another damage dealing spec with anywhere near the same level of utility. You can't because there aren't any.

How is that hard to understand?...


Pretty sure a feral can pop their fuzzy butts out and hit a 3 min cd to be healing gods along with a rebirth (what?! full rez in combat -- FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)....and that's ok...b/c they are a hybrid. Shamans can spec to it as well to make their dmg be aoe heals on a cd (i see a pattern forming here). Pallies can do it as well (with CD -- honestly, I don't remember the pally talents anymore) with clemency for double hand spells.

The pattern: hybrids. I bring utility. This is why i do. I don't top meters, and I don't sit top 3 b/c I don't have all the modifiers as real dps specs have. I will say it only once for you: in a previous post, I made mention of putting a penalty to chakra: chastise to where we couldn't switch out in combat to limit how the holy dps role would be played, ie. as a dps but still with utility. Until recently, a shadow priest could heal just as hard as I could -- gasp, hybrid.

Read the thread before you comment. Oh, and you've been debunked. Get over it.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
10695
Pretty sure a feral can pop their fuzzy butts out and hit a 3 min cd to be healing gods along with a rebirth (what?! full rez in combat -- FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)....and that's ok...b/c they are a hybrid. Shamans can spec to it as well to make their dmg be aoe heals on a cd (i see a pattern forming here). Pallies can do it as well (with CD -- honestly, I don't remember the pally talents anymore) with clemency for double hand spells.


Battle rez can only be used a certain amount of times per fight and is open to multiple specs. Stacking druids because they have battle rez wouldn't work for obvious reasons.

The utility a holy priest brings is not controlled in any way and is mostly exclusive to the spec. You could bring 6 holy priests and each priest would still bring his entire toolkit of utility.

Feral druid tranq is no where near as good as a holy priest divine hymn would be. Not even in the same ball park.

Healers have far more utility than a damage dealing spec and a healing/damage dealing spec even more so.

The pattern: hybrids. I bring utility. This is why i do. I don't top meters, and I don't sit top 3 b/c I don't have all the modifiers as real dps specs have. I will say it only once for you: in a previous post, I made mention of putting a penalty to chakra: chastise to where we couldn't switch out in combat to limit how the holy dps role would be played, ie. as a dps but still with utility. Until recently, a shadow priest could heal just as hard as I could -- gasp, hybrid.


So how much dps is all this utility worth? Should you be 10% bellow a "real dps spec?"

How about 20% or 30%? I'd argue that it is fine as is but you're asking for a buff to holy dps.

Its painfully apparent why this is completely against blizzard's design intent.
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100 Draenei Shaman
18675
If Blizzard ever did this they'd probably make you cap spell hit via gear :)
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53 Blood Elf Priest
7480
If Blizzard ever did this they'd probably make you cap spell hit via gear :)


A compromise I would be 100% willing to make.
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90 Pandaren Priest
8765
04/03/2013 01:02 PMPosted by Kraddark
Pretty sure a feral can pop their fuzzy butts out and hit a 3 min cd to be healing gods along with a rebirth (what?! full rez in combat -- FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)....and that's ok...b/c they are a hybrid. Shamans can spec to it as well to make their dmg be aoe heals on a cd (i see a pattern forming here). Pallies can do it as well (with CD -- honestly, I don't remember the pally talents anymore) with clemency for double hand spells.


Battle rez can only be used a certain amount of times per fight and is open to multiple specs. Stacking druids because they have battle rez wouldn't work for obvious reasons.

The utility a holy priest brings is not controlled in any way and is mostly exclusive to the spec. You could bring 6 holy priests and each priest would still bring his entire toolkit of utility.

Feral druid tranq is no where near as good as a holy priest divine hymn would be. Not even in the same ball park.

Healers have far more utility than a damage dealing spec and a healing/damage dealing spec even more so.

The pattern: hybrids. I bring utility. This is why i do. I don't top meters, and I don't sit top 3 b/c I don't have all the modifiers as real dps specs have. I will say it only once for you: in a previous post, I made mention of putting a penalty to chakra: chastise to where we couldn't switch out in combat to limit how the holy dps role would be played, ie. as a dps but still with utility. Until recently, a shadow priest could heal just as hard as I could -- gasp, hybrid.


So how much dps is all this utility worth? Should you be 10% bellow a "real dps spec?"

How about 20% or 30%? I'd argue that it is fine as is but you're asking for a buff to holy dps.

Its painfully apparent why this is completely against blizzard's design intent.


You asked for utility...and I delivered. What a feral can do is top notch when they blow the lvl 90 CD and heal. A brez is a brez...still the #1 important utility spell. So, you're wrong.

I still sit below my real dps spec, and that is what matters. Your intent is the 'hybrid tax' logic, which is no longer viable. What I have shown here is that I am being taxed for my utility, and I accept it. What you want is "it must be this way and only this way b/c I don't want some other spec to be different!!!"....which is a fallacy. Btw, before they truly split the specs, feral shared their masteries. I'm guessing you didn't know this --i mean, why would you right? -- so what I purposed has already been done. The difference is that they actually split the specs; what I bring to this is a VERY easy tweak that doesn't even take more than a week to put in with the code.

So, you are wrong in logic. You are wrong in your argument of hybrids and their utility potential. You are wrong in blizz's design currently. Stop. Unless you have something new to bring beyond whining and just false garbage, do not post here again as it has now moved to ignorance --see, not trolling (there is a difference folks) -- of what the spec can do vs what other hybrids can do and what they have in their kits.
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