Healing Garalon 10N

90 Night Elf Druid
10550
So my guild and I have been working on Garalon. We have about 20 wipes so far. I'm looking to see if there's anything I could be doing for the better healing this fight. We have chosen to three heal the fight. I unfortunately did not log our 2 heal attempts. It seemed my mana could not keep up with the throughput required... even with our monk's high throughput.

Here are logs from our last 6 attempts: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/tx5lcb6zllik80hd/

I am using SotF and what I've been doing is basically keeping LB up on the kiter, WG on cooldown (try to), swiftmend our rogue/paladin which are eating the frontal and tossing out rejuvs as much as mana allows. I also tend to stay near Garalon's right front leg and adjust as he turns towards the kiter; this way I can reach most everyone for heals.

Is the kiter the best candidate for my LB?
What about SW? I've been using it on our rogue who seems to lose half his health bar with each frontal ability and I figured since our pally tank is there, the Efflo isn't a complete waste.
SotF or Tree?

Any tips would be appreciated :)

EDIT: I'm pretty sure our Shadow Priest has too low dps. We're working on him :\
Edited by Sherbear on 12/20/2012 2:59 AM PST
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
At how many stacks were people swapping? Was it more than 15-16? I think mathmatically 15-16 stacks is the number where crush+gas damage is the lowest it can be. Going to 20-25 stacks will cause pain.

Advice you don't want to hear: When the blues say that doing LFR isn't manditory for progression, while at the same time saying that normals should be hard. What they are really saying is that if you don't have 80% MSV/Valor gear you still need to be running LFR (or MSV)... or be satisfied with being stuck progression wise. You are at the minimal ilvl for early HoF. I'd say you are below the threshhold for Empress though.
-Your weapon is blue. The second half of HoF has 2 483 weapons, ToES has 2 483 weapons. Second, for a druid the 2pc is a redic mana saver. Scoring either the Tier helm or the Tier gloves would do amazing things for you.

Talents - My personal choice on my druid (who just does LFR and tries to carry the group in just LFR gear, which is higher ilvl than your gear)... is Tree of Life. Really there are only 4 spells you cast in Tree of Life... Tree of Life is basically being mana neutral for 30 seconds due to lifebloom spam + clearcasting regrowths (still using WG/SM on regrowth HoT).

The regrowth crit glyph is a HPS loss. I'd drop it for nourish cast time reduction. For burst healing it is more reliable, but it amounts to less overall, especially if the person dips below 20% and the hot refreshes. Since their is no tank burst on this fight, there is no need for the regrowth glyph.

The rogue should be combat, and should be doing as much damage as the warrior if not more. Between the 2 of them all the legs should be dying.
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90 Pandaren Monk
13685
Since you are hitting the enrage, your problem is dps, not heals.

Kiters should be the 2 tanks, resto druid and holy priest, monk should stay full time dpsing the boss for jab/jab/uplift. That's what seems to be going on.

Your priest should go discipline to dps the boss as well, it would probably make the difference. But yes, your issue is dps, not heals. We did Garalon monday with 2 socials from the guild on their first time, and even then we got 552k DPS versus your 484k dps.. Garalon requires 500k dps exactly to beat the enrage.. so find 16k dps somewhere, IMO the priest could do that as disc easily.
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90 Draenei Priest
11625
We're having the same issue on Garalon currently as well. But we are hitting enrage, so it seems to be a dps/kiting problem. A metric ton of damage feels like it's going out and double crushes weren't helping.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ymj46yad8nmz18fo/sum/healingDone/?s=1665&e=2090
Edited by Ocyla on 12/20/2012 9:25 AM PST
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90 Orc Shaman
19875
Since you are hitting the enrage, your problem is dps, not heals.

Kiters should be the 2 tanks


Our approach was a bit unconventional - we 3 heal it as well but we also 1 tank it. Our 2nd soaker is our Holy Paladin, and myself and a Mistweaver heal everyone else while the DPS take turns kiting.

We were able to come close to 2healing it when we were first getting the fight down but we never succeeded with that approach, though I'm sure we could now.

DPS requires and understanding of Venn diagrams.... still trying to get ours to stand in the large area where Healing Rain and Leg Hit Box overlap, so healing is only as easy as DPS make it in that fight.
Edited by Ninetales on 12/20/2012 9:23 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17095
I think everybody has good ideas regarding strategies for the dps. There are many different ways to do this. We had two ranged dps pick up the kiting a couple of times in addition to the two tanks.

Regarding healing, what got it for our group (just finally downed him last night) was that the dps learned to be good about sticking close-ish together. The biggest complaint was people being out of range. So sticking together to the greatest extent possible really helped out the healers. Btw, we two-heal: resto shaman and disc priest.
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90 Night Elf Druid
8375
The kiter doesn't take any more damage than the rest of the raid. Pheromones are a global pulse. If anything, put LB on one of the people soaking the cleaves because they will be taking Pheromone damage as well as direct hits.
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90 Night Elf Druid
10550
12/20/2012 05:59 AMPosted by Pitkanen
At how many stacks were people swapping? Was it more than 15-16? I think mathmatically 15-16 stacks is the number where crush+gas damage is the lowest it can be. Going to 20-25 stacks will cause pain.


We were swapping at about 19-20 stacks.

Advice you don't want to hear: When the blues say that doing LFR isn't manditory for progression, while at the same time saying that normals should be hard. What they are really saying is that if you don't have 80% MSV/Valor gear you still need to be running LFR (or MSV)... or be satisfied with being stuck progression wise. You are at the minimal ilvl for early HoF. I'd say you are below the threshhold for Empress though.
-Your weapon is blue. The second half of HoF has 2 483 weapons, ToES has 2 483 weapons. Second, for a druid the 2pc is a redic mana saver. Scoring either the Tier helm or the Tier gloves would do amazing things for you.


I'm all for gear advice. I have the next week off so I'm hoping to get in double LFR (monday and tuesday).

The regrowth crit glyph is a HPS loss. I'd drop it for nourish cast time reduction.


I'm not sure I agree with this. I don't know many progression druids at all that use the Nourish cast-reduction glyph. It's been debated time and again. The clear winner was that Regrowth glyph is superior.

The rogue should be combat, and should be doing as much damage as the warrior if not more. Between the 2 of them all the legs should be dying.


We did discuss this and our rogue is looking into getting a proper MH weapon so he can swap specs for this fight.

The kiter doesn't take any more damage than the rest of the raid. Pheromones are a global pulse. If anything, put LB on one of the people soaking the cleaves because they will be taking Pheromone damage as well as direct hits.


Ahh that makes sense. Thank you Gloo!
Edited by Sherbear on 12/20/2012 1:54 PM PST
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
Could use more information here. Like how many kiters are you using, how many stacks are you doing, who is doing the kiting, and what order is the kiting. Having the Spriest in the kiting order is a pretty bad idea since thier mobile dps is terrible. Generally with 3 healers you use 4 kiters at 20 - 21 stacks each and often at least 2 healers are involved in the kiting order. It's best to go healer, dps, healer, dps so that 2 healers are never preoccupied to handing off before a crush. You can also have the rogue or tank take pheramone as long as you are careful on the hand off timing to and from them since they will be right in the boss face soaking swipes and dpsing.

I used to LB the kiter constantly until our prot paladin switched to ret soaker and started needing a ton more healing. Just have a healer or moving out into range of the kiter if you can't get him with beacon/LB and such
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90 Night Elf Druid
13360
If you don't have 4pc I'd recommend not going SotF. Try and use tree between crushes to conserve mana and to help out on the raid healing. As when you tree on that type of fight the other heals can slack off for a good 20 - 25seconds :)
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90 Night Elf Druid
10550
12/20/2012 03:08 PMPosted by Stratis
Could use more information here. Like how many kiters are you using, how many stacks are you doing, who is doing the kiting, and what order is the kiting. Having the Spriest in the kiting order is a pretty bad idea since thier mobile dps is terrible.


Sorry about that. We've been using 4 kiters switching at 19-20 stacks. Our kiters are our Mage, Hunter, Holy Priest then our MW Monk. I'll definitely see about switching the order around so 2 of our healers aren't overly occupied on the switch.

12/20/2012 11:22 PMPosted by Adriael
If you don't have 4pc I'd recommend not going SotF. Try and use tree between crushes to conserve mana and to help out on the raid healing. As when you tree on that type of fight the other heals can slack off for a good 20 - 25seconds :)


Thanks, I'll certainly give it a go :)

I appreciate the feedback everyone. Thanks so much!
Edited by Sherbear on 12/21/2012 2:45 AM PST
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90 Troll Druid
11860
The regrowth crit glyph is a HPS loss. I'd drop it for nourish cast time reduction.


Casting our most mediocre spell quicker is a HPS gain over a guaranteed cit + living-seed on one's tank? That's just silly.

OP - look here

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/xlnrx1yc2mwe7swj/sum/healingDone/?s=19204&e=19604

Take note of Harmony and LB upkeep compared to your pulls. This tells me you're having a wee bit trouble staying in range and or switching LB targets. Keep it on the tanks and a RJ on the kiters. But there's no need for it to fall off - switch it to yourself temporarily to save the GCDs.

SotF isn't king here - IMO tree is superior for a few good reasons. One is you can 3x LB on kiters and both tanks. This is big.

Don't LB kiters out of tree - there is no need. Use Ironbark instead with rj.

SM yourself in range or close to a leg that's being DPS'd - ST SM other than a group is a waste here.

Two heal it. Honestly you can do it. Think that unlike most fights you'll see very little OH 2 healing.

http://www.wowreforge.com/Profiles/5119812?template=Haste=3043+,Haste:0.8,Spi:0.75,Crit:0.6,Mastery:0.65

This looks much better reforge. You could set Mastery to .75/spirit .65 but going forward into HoF it's a better idea to keep the spirit.

Start off blasting - this means go ToL early - no need to wait for a crush. lB everyone but kiters and tanks first.
Only tranq after crush
Keep WG on CD
Fill with rejuv <60%
Stay close to the front area of pink circle with tanks just in and out of range - drop your SM there and have ranged stack with you if they can. Here's my first kill video - it shows positioning pretty well and keep in mind my gear level at this kill date was lower than yours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZncJSfdiEM
Edited by Moophious on 12/21/2012 8:28 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
10550
Wow Moo. Thanks so much for taking the time to post! I'll put it to good use on our next raid night :)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8850
19-20 stacks is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much.

2 heal and swap at 15, 4 kiters, ezpz.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9645
We had similar "lack of dps" issues when we did this a while back. We eventually shifted to 2 heal 1 tank + 1 plate dps soaking. 4 kiters swaps at 20 (although it is indeed smoother if swaps occur sightly before).

I don't know what's the state of your healers' mana(or indirectly gear). We've been 2 healing as MW+Hpal and from the MW perspective, for so long as you have faith that the co healer will pickup the tanks it's quite doable.

Regardless the only few tips I can give you is to have your holy priests&rdruid kite, preferably along with your tank and then one ranged DPS. It's really going to be the lowest dps giveaway to kiting you can do with your raid comp assuming you run 1 tank 3 heals 1 soak.

Now for more particular infos, since I play MW and have been ranking pre nerf and hell post nerf really close to it again lately, tell your MW to use no BoK, no TP just spam jab to generate chi, use ReM on CD and spam uplift. Even without the help of the hpal, that can easily cover most of the raid. I won't go into full details but the gain of the eminence heal and whatnot alongside with the lack of mobility of the statue is seriously offset by the simple fact that uplift will be close to 100% effective healing anyway. I push around 9k-10k dps using only jabs+melee when healing this encounter, your MW was around 5k trying to keep his eminence healing going. Idk if he was running around but anyway.

Then yes, your SP is quite low on damage. So is your mage on the 3 longer encounters I've watch. If he is kiting, he definitely needs to not play arcane...

If your rogue is decent at Combat, blade flurry is absurd broken at legs cleave for this encounter(although I just noticed that your rogue is feint-soaking the cleave if he's not used to combat you might wanna refrain from putting that added pressure). Note that since you are 3 healing, you could very well just have your warrior soak and gain slight extra dps from mere bonus rage generation. There just needs to be an asigned healer to top him off after each cleave.

My honest real gut is saying your guilds is going to be one of the many, many that will be stuck on this encounter for a while because it has a very rough enrage timer and healing requirements. Most casual serious guilds have had to "shift pressure around". Wether it was 2 tank + 3 heal because healers were bad and dps are amazing (fewer cases) or 2 heal and 1 tank because healers are amazing and there are a few bad apples as far as dps goes. I'm wishing you the best but looking at the dps logs, unless you can shift heavy pressure to your healers, you will likely have to keep gearing up for a cpl weeks before breaking the enrage timer in your current 1 tank 3 heal setup.
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