Can I just come out and say this?

90 Night Elf Druid
4060
Healing is balanced in pvp right now. The actual problem is gear disparity due to upgrades and conquest cap. Also people who think they can just walk into a pvp enviroment and run their little dungeon healing rotation and then wonder why they die so fast. Yeah I'm being blunt. You could even say rude.

I rarely die in random bgs. Honestly its just a mentality. You keep yourself up first and you constantly evaluate the level of risk involved in beginning to heal others. You cc enemy melee who are at full health, because it is likely no one is dpsing them. You CC enemy damage Cooldowns, ITS SO MUCH EASIER THAN TRYING TO HEAL THROUGH THEM. You stay at max range so the enemy has to overextend to silence or cc you. You LOS when you can, get in a position were you can heal your target but the enemy can't cast on you, you are constantly jockeying for this position. YOU PEEL FOR YOURSELF. Nature's grasp, Bash, Ns clone, displacer beast pounce, maim the single combo point later for an interupt, typhoon for an interupt, juke a silence and hard cast cc, these are the basics people. L2P before you complain.

If you're not trying to pvp at your classes' maximum potential then just go back to PVE and run a canned rotation for 3 hours and then loot the boss and go to bed happy.

Someone has to say these things or the devs will get the wrong picture of the true state of the game right now.
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90 Night Elf Druid
4060
Also, READ YOUR MINIMAP! Who is overextended?! Select them and pre-hot them first! All this stuff.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
In random battle grounds, of course ever healing class is balanced. It's hit or miss for just about everyone. The issue is when a class can't keep up in say... 3v3 or 5v5 or rbgs.

Take disc priests for example, we can shield until we're blue in the face but 3 button clicks from an offensive dispel class and we're defenseless.
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90 Night Elf Druid
4060
Yeah rated battlegrounds are different mentality, then its basically whichever team's dps ccs better wins. Thats why I like arena because you usually win when you play well and lose when you mess up but rarely get to blame other people 100%. There is always something you could have done differently.

Rated bgs are the same tactics to survive but a lot more burst healing and more punishment for people who don't cc well.
Edited by Anoru on 1/12/2013 2:54 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
Also, there are healers that could use some buffs. Mistweavers, holy priests, and disc priests are flailing to keep their heads under water when a dps can dps them down almost without ccing. 1v1. That's the big issue that most healers have.

Chaining ccs is also a big problem. When you're alive for 30 seconds or so and stunned over half of that, there really isn't time to do ANYTHING. In the case of disc, anything you CAN do is dispelled going into the cc.

Now, some of these problems are being addressed going into 5.2, so we'll see. I will agree, however, that paladins, resto and resto are balanced in a fairly decent way, with resto slightly behind, in organized pvp. The other 3 need more help to become viable and wanted, and above all, enjoyable to play. (not op. there's a big difference.)
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90 Orc Warrior
10110
My resto druid has full malevolent. I regularly go 100% to 0% in random BGs because of CC chains. Stun > Silence > Horrify > Stun > Dead.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12960
01/12/2013 03:12 PMPosted by Gruklaar
My resto druid has full malevolent. I regularly go 100% to 0% in random BGs because of CC chains. Stun > Silence > Horrify > Stun > Dead.

So are you saying that there's a problem with the other team being able to pull off a coordinated CC chain in order to kill a healer?
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90 Orc Warrior
10110
01/12/2013 03:21 PMPosted by Dezie
My resto druid has full malevolent. I regularly go 100% to 0% in random BGs because of CC chains. Stun > Silence > Horrify > Stun > Dead.

So are you saying that there's a problem with the other team being able to pull off a coordinated CC chain in order to kill a healer?


I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's a bad game design to have a system where by you give a player 30 or so buttons, and then allow them to die without being able to hit any of said buttons.

Should I be able to tank three people as a healer? No. Should I be able to at least get a single instant heal off? Yeah, I think I should.
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90 Night Elf Druid
4060
Why are you eating cc in the first place? Thats the real problem. Do you realise you can pop barkskin in a stun? Do you realise you should always have at least a rejuv on yourself becasue people love to switch rdruid? Do you realise how bad that makes you sound because you're having problems in full mal?

Edit: to prove my point, look at my gear, look at this game I just recorded the score of. You should hardly EVER die in randoms with your gear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT1pu2aRbwk&feature=youtu.be
Edited by Anoru on 1/12/2013 3:56 PM PST
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90 Orc Warrior
10110
01/12/2013 03:50 PMPosted by Anoru
Why are you eating cc in the first place? Thats the real problem


I'll just have to juke hammer of justice better.

01/12/2013 03:50 PMPosted by Anoru
Do you realise you should always have at least a rejuv on yourself becasue people love to switch rdruid?


Oh yeah, those 10K rejuv ticks will totally save me from 110K chaos bolt hits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qT1pu2aRbwk&feature=youtu.be


I don't know what monitor you're using, but that 360p video is nearly illegible.
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90 Night Elf Druid
4060
I play on a macbook and I still play better than you. If you're putting yourself in a position to eat a HoJ and then get full burst from a Lock then I don't think anything I say will help.

Except maybe stay away from Hpalla all the time, becasue as rdruid they are our counter, only go near them to nsclone or bash or pounce or hard cast clone if you know they are noob and will not try to outrange you. You see hpalla coming you run. In travel form. You use travel form right?

EDIT: symbiosis the dk and get an ibf and get out of stun free. Use your trinket when you see danger like this, symbiosis a mage and get iceblock.

EDIT 2: Dont pretend your full mal rejuvs tick at 10k. My rejuvs tick at 15k.
Edited by Anoru on 1/12/2013 4:16 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
7275
Healing is balanced in pvp right now. The actual problem is gear disparity due to upgrades and conquest cap. Also people who think they can just walk into a pvp enviroment and run their little dungeon healing rotation and then wonder why they die so fast. Yeah I'm being blunt. You could even say rude.

I rarely die in random bgs. Honestly its just a mentality. You keep yourself up first and you constantly evaluate the level of risk involved in beginning to heal others. You cc enemy melee who are at full health, because it is likely no one is dpsing them. You CC enemy damage Cooldowns, ITS SO MUCH EASIER THAN TRYING TO HEAL THROUGH THEM. You stay at max range so the enemy has to overextend to silence or cc you. You LOS when you can, get in a position were you can heal your target but the enemy can't cast on you, you are constantly jockeying for this position. YOU PEEL FOR YOURSELF. Nature's grasp, Bash, Ns clone, displacer beast pounce, maim the single combo point later for an interupt, typhoon for an interupt, juke a silence and hard cast cc, these are the basics people. L2P before you complain.

If you're not trying to pvp at your classes' maximum potential then just go back to PVE and run a canned rotation for 3 hours and then loot the boss and go to bed happy.

Someone has to say these things or the devs will get the wrong picture of the true state of the game right now.


Your argument is that healing is balanced because as a healer you have 7 CCs? I agree with you that healers in general probably don't take advantage of their own CCs as often as they should, but CCs are one of the major reasons that healing *is* unbalanced.

You're also a druid, as am I. We have an advantage that most other healers do not have, that makes PVP less painful for us than others. The majority of our heals are instant casts, so we aren't as vulnerable to silences and interrupts as much as other healers are (especially with Incarnation). It's significantly less painful to PVP as a resto druid, in my opinion.

From a numbers perspective, I agree that we (dps vs healers) are within range of balance. I think healing is a little short, maybe by about 10-15%~ less than it should be, but pretty close. However, I think CCs are completely out of control, which is what makes healing *feel* underpowered in PVP.

I do not think that any class, under any circumstances, should ever be out of control of their character for more than 5 seconds every 5 seconds. I think it's terrible design. Players want to play, they can't be prevented from that or they won't want to play.

I will agree 100% with you that the Conquest system is terrible. If you happen to be on a bad server where your faction loses frequently or you can't find teammates for RBG/Arenas, you're exponentially punished for things beyond your control.
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90 Night Elf Druid
4060
mm. While I disagree on the 5 second cc only every 5 seconds because I think that's what trinkets are for, and why they are so..... x-factor, and make the pvp experience good, I agree that rdruids have it good, but honestly I would not doubt there are players out there who have figured out how to dominate on the other classes and survive endlessly by adopting a triage mentality and being conscious of positioning and cc opportunities and such things as these as well as rdruids, possibly better.
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90 Night Elf Druid
7275
01/12/2013 03:37 PMPosted by Gruklaar
Should I be able to tank three people as a healer? No. Should I be able to at least get a single instant heal off? Yeah, I think I should.


Personally, here's how I think healing should be designed in a bg. Everything below assumes equal gear and equal skill:

1 healer vs 1 dps: Healer should never be in danger of death or OOM within average times. DPS ideally would give up. After a long length of time (5+ minutes) the healer would run OOM. The goal of the DPS would be to distract the healer from other duties, not kill solo. (For example, interrupting heals on the flag carrier.)

1 healer vs 2 dps: Healer should be in danger of going OOM, but not dying immediately. Gear level will determine how long the healer will last, but the healer will have enough time (1~ minute) to live before going OOM. Healer would have to be focused only on themselves to keep themselves up during that time, but would not have the bandwidth to help others.

1 healer vs 3 dps: Healer should be in constant threat of dying and OOM. Healer would last about 5-15 seconds.

The healer is a support class basically in PVP. A dps is never in danger of dying from a healer, but that needs to come at a tradeoff for survivability for the healer in question. This survivability current doesn't exist due to the massive amount of CC in the game. 1 dps class can kill me (unless I CC him and run away). That feels incredibly punishing to a healer. 2 dps and I can be instantly dead.
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90 Night Elf Druid
7275
01/12/2013 04:22 PMPosted by Anoru
mm. While I disagree on the 5 second cc only every 5 seconds because I think that's what trinkets are for, and why they are so..... x-factor, and make the pvp experience good, I agree that rdruids have it good, but honestly I would not doubt there are players out there who have figured out how to dominate on the other classes and survive endlessly by adopting a triage mentality and being conscious of positioning and cc opportunities and such things as these as well as rdruids, possibly better.


But trinkets have a 2 minute cooldown. If trinkets had say a 15 second cooldown, I might be alright with it. But at the point that CCs are currently in game (especially as a healer that has to cast the majority of their spells), a healer can spend up to 20 seconds completely locked down out of the game. It would literally be faster to die and run back most of the time. I think it's completely unfair to any class (healer or non-healer) and completely un-fun.

It effects druids less because due to our HoT nature and shapeshifting, we're effectively immune to 2 of the strongest CCs in PVP: Interrupts and polymorph.

Either way it's not too important because I believe the next patch is placing many CCs on the same DR. That should help quite a bit.
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100 Draenei Priest
15935
Disc priests have gotten the shaft this expansion with PvP. The only two forms of defensive CC we have are Void Tendrils and Psychic Scream. Psychic Scream just gets trinketed out by everyone , and tendrils is a root, so while it'll help for some melee, it does nothing to stop ranged from killing us. (And even then, most melee are able to get back into our range in no time)

That's it.

The problem is that players aren't smart enough take care of their healers. 95% of the DPS out there have tunnel-vision, while they're off charging at other DPS, the healers are in the back getting beaten down by pretty much everyone. At least in Cata, I could at least take care of myself if someone decided to 1v1, and if I played smart, I could either get away or even kill them.

Now, I don't even have any way to defend myself. Smite? Holy Fire? Haha no. The damage is laughable, and that's just asking to be globaled out of all my spells. A DPS could be at 15% and, I could be at 100%, and I would -still- die if I was caught by myself.

I'm FORCED to be a damsel in distress as disc. And that, is not fun. At all.
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90 Draenei Priest
11815
What I got from the OP was "stop being bad all of you, things are fine, and I never die because I"m awesome". That's cute, and good for you.

Peel for yourself, are you serious? No kidding. I'm not a druid, my self peels are limited. Priests need a lot of peels. Anyway I'm going to stop right there, because I'm assuming this conversation is strictly about druids, who are pretty fine as I understand it.
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90 Human Priest
11345
OP talks down to the peons below him from the lofty heights of the 1700 bracket.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/12/2013 07:19 PMPosted by Amabella
OP talks down to the peons below him from the lofty heights of the 1700 bracket.


We should all be as awesome as he is.
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90 Night Elf Druid
4060
Rated battlegrounds are entirely too dependent to on the overall skill of the group for personal rating to be a true reflection of the skill of one player. If you want to go after my rating, fine I can't stop you. Honestly I watch videos of 2800 healers.... They get all their peels handed to them on a platter by the best dps in the world.
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