And the race is on...

90 Pandaren Shaman
10440
Well someone's going to have to kill Heroic Will of the Emp tonight. Regardless of what happens, we are grateful for you guys coming back and providing competition, making raiding fun for us this xpac :) Good luck to you guys! 2 more instances to go!
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90 Human Warlock
10545
I'll be online the entire night after 7:30 server should you need me Xan. Otherwise good luck to both guilds! It's exciting seeing some competition on Undermine!
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90 Pandaren Shaman
10440
Grats to dying breed. Looking forward to the next two raids.
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90 Draenei Hunter
11540
Thanks Xanaxer, it's always nice to have somebody else pushing you, kind of keeps you on your toes. Good luck to you.
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90 Human Mage
8715
varick your belt is reforged wrong
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90 Draenei Hunter
11540
How so? If I lose the 174 expertise from my belt, I'll be under the expertise cap.....so not sure what you're getting at.
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90 Human Mage
8715
Getting exactly to the hit/exp cap doesn't do anything magical for you. It means you will never miss, but that comes at a cost. It means you give up another stat. Remove the reforge, the haste is better even though you'll be .09% under expertise cap.
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90 Draenei Hunter
11540
While I understand this is a fantasy game and "Magic" is par for the course, it has nothing to do with being hit or expertise capped. For Hunters, not being at hit/expertise cap is a straight dps loss. Period. EJ, WHU, Mmo-Champion or any other Hunter forum will tell you this.

I understand for casters, not being hit capped is something you can get away with, but for Hunters it's not an option.

But lets say I do drop my experstise from my belt, I'm now 32 from being capped which leaves roughly a %0.09 chance to be dodged. At the same time I now gain 174 haste.

With my current gear, expertise has a 2.00 per budget stat. Haste is at 0.69. By dropping the expertise from the belt, thus dropping under the cap, my expertise is now at 2.06 while haste has now dropped to 0.6.

Now, using FemaleDwarf (yes it's a sim, but just for the sake of argument bear with me) dropping the expertise from my belt ends up being ~170 dps loss. Having even just one shot dodged (since hunter shots can't be parried) is a rather huge loss. Over the course of a 6-9 min fight avg, there's a good chance of having more than just that one shot dodged.

Also, keep in mind our pets inherit our hit/expertise a bit differently than they do other stats. For example, if I have 2% hit (or 2% expertise), it gains 1% as hit and 1% as expertise, meaning not being capped in both ends up being a large dps loss to the pet.

Another thing to keep in mind is, when it comes to stats, haste (at least for SV and BM Hunters) isn't as desirable a stat as say agi, crit and to some extent mastery. In the long run 174 haste vs 0.09% chance to be dodged is really splitting hairs, I would still rather be hit/experise capped, but feel free to play how you like.

Lastly, I just picked up the heroic bow last night, which put me further over the cap than I'd like, but since we haven't killed Lei-Shi this week, there's a chance for the Sha touched gun to drop, in which case I'm going to be hurting for expertise and will have to totally re-do all my reforges anyway.

Edit: I apologize for derailing the thread, if it's an issue send me a in game mail or whisper me and I'll delete my posts.
Edited by Varick on 1/16/2013 5:49 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
10440
I love it
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90 Human Mage
8715
lol no

hunters need hp5
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90 Worgen Druid
15480
On a more serious note, Xan thanks for the kind words. It was a lot more exciting last night knowing we were both making attempts on the boss.

@Vidas
http://i.imgur.com/SWspw.jpg
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90 Undead Warlock
12300
Arguing over dps reforging is so early Cata. Instead of philosophizing, try this:

1) Figure out your current scaling factors using SimCraft or whatever
2) Consult the oracle at http://www.wowreforge.com
3) Profit

Brain cells required: zero.

You're welcome, Undermine.

EDIT: Oh, and nice work, guys. Glad to see some folks are still raiding around here.
Edited by Fontaine on 1/16/2013 7:05 PM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
18560
Thanks Xanaxer, it's been a fun tier for us as well.

Arguing over dps reforging is so early Cata. Instead of philosophizing, try this:

1) Figure out your current scaling factors using SimCraft or whatever
2) Consult the oracle at http://www.wowreforge.com
3) Profit

Brain cells required: zero.

You're welcome, Undermine.

EDIT: Oh, and nice work, guys. Glad to see some folks are still raiding around here.


There are variables that sims and reforge plotting can't always account for.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Grats on Will of the Emp Dying Breed its nice to see a good raiding guild on Undermine
Edited by Steinuh on 1/17/2013 2:10 PM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
12300
01/17/2013 10:53 AMPosted by Phelonie
There are variables that sims and reforge plotting can't always account for.


For healers I agree, quite a bit of hand-waving required for any reforging decision. But for dps in particular, I'm not sure what you mean.

Sims are pretty awful at predicting your actual dps, given how variable fights are, but are pretty good at calculating the scaling factors for your stats... the only reason you'd know that haste was better than crit or whatever anyway. And reforge bots are remarkably good at juggling your gear based on those scaling factors... the kind of precision that makes human brains explode. "Exactly at hit cap, again!"

Anyhoo, not intending for this to be a negative in your face kinda thing, I'm just curious what info you'd use as a dps to reforge your gear if you don't trust scaling factors?
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90 Draenei Shaman
18560
No harm, no foul. I could have added more clarity to my post above.

Sometimes it's data pulled from WoL, sometimes it's just how the fight is progressing, and sometimes it just "feels" better. Raid comp, our groups strengths and weaknesses, and tasks in a fight I may need to perform outside of parking on the boss and dps'ing can be a factor.

For most fights I agree with you, and I use the very tools you mentioned. There have been a few this tier though, where going against the accepted stat values has helped me make a better contribution to our team.
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100 Troll Hunter
11995
femaledwarf.com

Use it. And as far as Expertise goes with Hunter, we would rather be a tad over than under. As with the majority of our stats it is but another we share with our beloved pets, and all the !@#$ed up %^-* that comes with them.

Edit: Won't lie. Saw you two arguing about the need of Expertise and didnt even bother to read your Wall of Text. But good on you for being ahead of me.
Edited by Razir on 1/21/2013 6:25 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
9025
http://blog.askmrrobot.com/2012/11/how-mr-robot-feels-about-hit-caps/

Food for thought.
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100 Troll Hunter
11995
You know after I commented I thought back.... Exactly what are the odds of someone going to miss if they are say..... .09% under Hit Cap.

Thanks for bringing that back up.

Edit: Fully read the article. Oh !@#$ it even did my odds for me :D
Edited by Razir on 1/22/2013 4:25 PM PST
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