A Middle Ground Option for PvP

90 Undead Mage
9215
@Aurellian

You made a long post a page ago that I don't feel like quoting, about the lack of middle ground in PvP. It was an interesting read.

What would you think about this suggestion:

The current CTA BG has an alternative mode for queuing, that can only be queued into with a full group. The rewards remain exactly the same.


So, in the count down Q's thread this topic came up. Mostly because I personally feel that the current PvP system is flawed in several ways that are not up for discussion in this particular thread.

Here is the suggestion:

The Current CTA BG has an option to Q as a full group. You must make a full raid group prior to Q'ing for this BG to prevent random people with horrible gear coming into the group.
There is no minimum ilvl or resilience except what the GL decides.

Winning this battle as a full group will ALWAYS reward 100 Conquest. and a bonus of 200 honor.

Teams that want to Q together should be able to go in together. Blizzard has stated they don't like the premade V Pug (PUG Stomping) and lots of Alliance are quite upset about the current disparity of use for an addon that is called oQueue.

I feel that RBG's are way too much of a hassle with the rating system and everything else to get going keep going and keep fair as we all know win trading...DDOS'ing and buying carries is prevalent.

This, in my opinion, would give those of us who fit somewhere in the middle of the PvP crowd - a place to compete that is a good fit for us. Would the RBG'ers come in here and plow for fast conquest? I doubt it. I don't think the quest greenies would try and get in here and GL's would certainly be able to weed them out.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6860
It will be interesting to see where this goes.
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60 Human Death Knight
900
Sounds like a very reasonable idea with little or no downside assuming there's enough interest to maintain activity. Also seems a very good thing for guilds to prepare teams for rated battlegrounds as well, without such a concern about every mistake potetntially dooming your win ratio and/or your rating. More about fun.

Hopefully there's siginificant interest and positive feedback about this, or at least something like this.

edit- the idea is sound. The suggested rewards I cant personally speak for, but more than nothing is fair.
Edited by Warglaive on 1/17/2013 6:17 AM PST
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90 Undead Mage
9215
FWIW - can you imagine 40 V 40 premades in AV and IOC - glorious battles.
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90 Undead Warrior
12140
to keep those that aren't about the good fight, the
strategy, the coordination and communication out
of the group and enjoying the company of those
that are, i'm in. facing an enemy that's also of this
mindset is welcome. stomping is still going to take
place but these folks are not going to complain.

some blue says that the normal battlegrounds are
meant to be devoid of coordination, and many like
myself don't care about ratings or the hassle that's
associated with the ratings platform, so something
has to be offered. something in a meaningful way.
this idea is a worthwhile consideration. it has merit.

Cheers.
Pleb.
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As requested, here I am. ;)

I don't think it's a bad idea. I think one of the concerns about premade vs. premade that had merit was the way it rewarded players and this addresses that.

I have to wonder though, how will this affect groups who don't have any requirements aka gear, class comp, etc? If you know you're going to be facing groups that will have those requirements, I think that could be a problem.
Edited by Jadei on 1/17/2013 10:49 AM PST
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90 Goblin Hunter
4900
This would be awesome. I love this idea. As an avid Premade leader, I relish the opportunity to go toe to toe with other premades in a non-rated environment. And don't get me wrong I enjoy RBGs a lot. But I don't want to tank my rating with people I PUG from oqueue and haven't playd with at all.

This is a great alternative and compromise for oQueue users that I think many people would find enjoyable.

There are the obvious pros for this, but just to mention some cons to keep the discussion going, I do see queue times being directly affected, for both premade queues and solo queues.

I would imagine that our suggestions could help, but Blizzard would have to determine the breakdown of everything, as they are the ones with the statistics of how many players are on during peak and off-peak hours, and how this might affect BG queues.
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90 Undead Warlock
7580
As good of an idea as this is, it will never happen. Que times would sky rocket for both premade groups and solo queuers. I don't really think a lot of people care, but there would be too many complaints and switched back if they ever did implement it.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
9730
As good of an idea as this is, it will never happen. Que times would sky rocket for both premade groups and solo queuers. I don't really think a lot of people care, but there would be too many complaints and switched back if they ever did implement it.


It's worth a shot though, as it does seem nice to have another option available. And Blizzard needs to be more open minded about people queuing together just for some casual PvP, instead of pointing fingers at Wargames/RBGs like it's the perfect fix.
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90 Undead Warlock
7580
I agree, it is def. worth a shot. But, that's my prediction of what will happen. As of now, solo que for SSM is a 3-4 min wait, which makes no sense to me. Horde have always had pretty instant que times.
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6 Undead Priest
0
There's a simple way to do this:

Solo Queue - can only queue with 1 member

Group Queue - anything above 1 member
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
8795
I use OQueue for rbgs, I run my daily random by myself, often a few in a row just for some pvp action, I hardly ever come up against a solid premade team, if any at all. Are they out there? Sure, but it really isnt as often as the people screaming bloody murder insist they are.
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90 Undead Warlock
10635
Sounds like glorified 2's no real rewards just conquest points. People will prolly replace this since it'll be easier to cap this way instead of 2s. But then people are gonna start feeling required to do a premade in order to conquest cap

Bad players will lose a lot so they'll feel the need to cheat(ddos) in a premade.

So, no things are good the way it is now. Just need to fix the bots in randoms problem and win trading in rbgs.
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90 Worgen Druid
10230
01/17/2013 01:32 PMPosted by Jugaa
Que times would sky rocket for both premade groups


Exactly this reason. If I remember correctly, i could be wrong because it was so long ago, but if you tried going a full raid into AV back in the day, you would be enjoying a 45 minute to a 1 1/2 hour queue time, at the least. Same with going into AB and WSG as a full group, just not being as bad timed as AV.

Pretty much this was your start to countdown queues as well. People saw the advantage of splitting groups for faster times, which also brought the negative of people doing this to be queued against a team lesser in size, taking it as a advantage to playing against the other team.

They can turn back to this way and I'm sure some will suck it up and deal with the horrible queue times. But you still would have people counting down for faster queues in smaller split up groups, just it wont be limited to 5 people like it is now. Also, and for some players, getting the slight advantage of a larger group of people being pitted against smaller groups.

If you can figure out a way around this, awesome. Imo they need a complete revamp of their non-rated bgs in more than just grouping by getting out of the honor grind that supports botters and soakers. Make groups any size they want. Just give me a better grind that cant be abused easily.
Edited by Lankynibs on 1/17/2013 5:46 PM PST
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Que times would sky rocket for both premade groups


Exactly this reason. If I remember correctly, i could be wrong because it was so long ago, but if you tried going a full raid into AV back in the day, you would be enjoying a 45 minute to a 1 1/2 hour queue time, at the least. Same with going into AB and WSG as a full group, just not being as bad timed as AV.

Pretty much this was your start to countdown queues as well. People saw the advantage of splitting groups for faster times, which also brought the negative of people doing this to be queued against a team lesser in size, taking it as a advantage to playing against the other team.

They can turn back to this way and I'm sure some will suck it up and deal with the horrible queue times. But you still would have people counting down for faster queues in smaller split up groups, just it wont be limited to 5 people like it is now. Also, and for some players, getting the slight advantage of a larger group of people being pitted against smaller groups.

If you can figure out a way around this, awesome. Imo they need a complete revamp of their non-rated bgs in more than just grouping by getting out of the honor grind that supports botters and soakers. Make groups any size they want. Just give me a better grind that cant be abused easily.


Things have changed since then. It was battlegroups only with no xrealm feature meaning you'd have to form your 10/15/40 man from your realm only and then queue into your specific battlegroup. They've since removed battlegroups and given us an xrealm grouping feature. I think these two things could make for shorter queues than we saw on previous attempts.
Edited by Jadei on 1/17/2013 6:17 PM PST
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90 Undead Warrior
12140
patch 5.2, and 5.3 are going to have a rather large
impact on things. with the way conquest is going to
be handled, and other things, you're going to figure
out that the premade was never the problem.

i still like the idea here, but, hide n watch.

Cheers.
Pleb.
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60 Human Death Knight
900
01/17/2013 01:40 PMPosted by Jugaa
Horde have always had pretty instant que times.


Currently solo queueing random with no blacklist, my horde queues have been slower than alliance. Just adding to your own experience there. I'm not sure solo queues would "skyrocket" tho... not for certain.

But your premades' undoubtedlty would get somewhat longer. Without solo's to feed them, i'd assume.
I guess it would be up to Blizz to ascertain the demand before any possibility of moving forward.

Probably could use more support.
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