Use of Noxxic, askmrrobot, etc...

90 Night Elf Mage
6300
I use both sites. In fact, Noxxic refers folks to askmrrobot for reforging advice. My problem is that the advice that mrrobot gives does not always match the things that Noxxic suggests: 15% hit cap for one. Plus, mrrobot keeps wanting me to change from haste to expertise in many cases. Based on all I read, this doesn't make sense as expertise is more aimed at melee dpsers. So, long story short, do you use askmrrobot? Do you find one source, such as Noxxic and stick with that? How exactly do you make your decisions on reforging stats?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
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Expertise got a change...I don't know when. It now gives you the same amount in terms of spells.

MrRobot seems to almost always value mastery over haste for arcane. And many people seem to think Noxxic is trash.

15%(+-.5) hit cap is something both should be recommending, though.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
12485
01/18/2013 11:52 AMPosted by Hakuren
15%(+-.5) hit cap is something both should be recommending, though.


You never want to be over 15%. You always want to be slightly under if not exactly at 15%.
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90 Night Elf Mage
6300
Askmrrobot consistently wants to put me at anywhere from 16 to 18% on hit rating, with haste generally around 4%. I've started comparing what other arcane mages have in terms of stats and am trying to reforge accordingly. I'd heard that expertise contributes to another stat but haven't seen exactly what it's supposed to do.
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90 Night Elf Mage
6300
Thanks for the good input!
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01/18/2013 12:00 PMPosted by Kaikou
15%(+-.5) hit cap is something both should be recommending, though.


You never want to be over 15%. You always want to be slightly under if not exactly at 15%.


(14.5,15.5) is an acceptable range. Reforging and gemming will not always give you exactly 15% and sometimes you have so much hit on your gear that it isn't possible to get exactly on 15% or below.

Pedantry is best saved for the DPS forums.
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90 Troll Mage
10625


You never want to be over 15%. You always want to be slightly under if not exactly at 15%.


(14.5,15.5) is an acceptable range. Reforging and gemming will not always give you exactly 15% and sometimes you have so much hit on your gear that it isn't possible to get exactly on 15% or below.

Pedantry is best saved for the DPS forums.


This is not an example of pedantry. You should never be that far over hit cap. There are too many gemming and reforging options to let that be an acceptable loss of stats. Losing 170 of another secondary stat is a big hit.
Edited by Methusulä on 1/18/2013 2:34 PM PST
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92 Undead Mage
8465
I just ran through your toon on mr. robot, and when I hit optimize it showed that they are aware that you are over the hit cap, and they are having you reforge to correct it.

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/kul_tiras/jodida

Also, take note that they want you to take 3 sensai's wild jade gems, which mr. robot will take into consideration when calculating your overall hit.

01/18/2013 01:55 PMPosted by Jodida
I'd heard that expertise contributes to another stat but haven't seen exactly what it's supposed to do.

It will act exactly the same as hit.

01/18/2013 11:31 AMPosted by Jodida
Do you find one source, such as Noxxic and stick with that? How exactly do you make your decisions on reforging stats?

I used noxxic long ago when I started playing, however I found their information to often be faulty or inaccurate, so I stopped. Now if I need any information on classes or specs, I'll us a combination of forum posts from wow and elitist jerks, and then info from icy-veins, which is just a far improved noxxic. Their arcane mage guide can be found here if you're interested:

http://icy-veins.com/arcane-mage-wow-pve-dps-guide
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01/18/2013 02:33 PMPosted by Methusulä
This is not an example of pedantry. You should never be that far over hit cap. There are too many gemming and reforging options to let that be an acceptable loss of stats. Losing 170 of another secondary stat is a big hit.


So you think there is no possibility that any given random mage will fall within that range?

If you plan on taking statistics, stay away from six sigma. Stay away from prediction intervals. And definitely stay away from confidence intervals.
Edited by Hakuren on 1/19/2013 1:53 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Mage
5870
01/18/2013 01:55 PMPosted by Jodida
Askmrrobot consistently wants to put me at anywhere from 16 to 18% on hit rating, with haste generally around 4%.

Mr. Robot actually is trying to place you at 14.74% Hit because right now you are well over the Hit cap. Basically exceeding 15% Hit is pointless, and you're at 16.94%. His strategy is to pull down to your Hit to optimize your other stats.

The reason he's pulling down your haste is because the way he's designed to optimize Arcane mages is the following:

Hit (to 15%) > Mastery > Haste > Crit

You can manually change the stat weight of Haste/Mastery to ask him to reforge you towards haste. For the record, Arcane mages fare better with a mastery build.

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/kul_tiras/jodida
Edited by Breaktheice on 1/18/2013 11:54 PM PST
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90 Dwarf Mage
7465
Download a addon called reforgelite. It's simple to use and you can reforge all your gear with once click.
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100 Orc Shaman
10840
Dont use noxxic.

ever.
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90 Troll Mage
9620
Another option would be to check out worldoflogs and other sites which post raid parses, Armory some of the top mages of your spec. Don't just choose the number 1 mage, because it's possible the dps was cheesed somehow by letting the mage do something do boost his dps artificially (like cleaving protectors in terrace).

You can get a feel for what the top mages are doing. There's lots of data out there, particularly haste vs. mastery for arcane. If all the top dps mages are mastery, well then you should probably reforge to mastery.
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100 Troll Mage
17020
So you think there is no possibility that any given random mage will fall within that range?

If you plan on taking statistics, stay away from six sigma. Stay away from prediction intervals. And definitely stay away from confidence intervals.


Reforging has NOTHING to do with statistics and probability...

Their is no good reason for a player to ever go to 15.5% hit rating. It should always be 15% or a bit lower and that "a bit lower" is more dependent on what the individual player gains or loses.
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90 Troll Mage
10625
So you think there is no possibility that any given random mage will fall within that range?

If you plan on taking statistics, stay away from six sigma. Stay away from prediction intervals. And definitely stay away from confidence intervals.


Reforging has NOTHING to do with statistics and probability...

Their is no good reason for a player to ever go to 15.5% hit rating. It should always be 15% or a bit lower and that "a bit lower" is more dependent on what the individual player gains or loses.


This.

Your response makes no sense, despite your attempts to sound intelligent. Losing 170 of a secondary stat due to being way over cap is simply laziness. I have no doubt there are people who run around like that, but the fact remains, there is no excuse. Your claim that 15.5% hit is acceptable is simply not true, at least for anyone who actually cares enough to look into the issue in the first place.
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90 Pandaren Mage
5870
Reforging has NOTHING to do with statistics and probability...

Their is no good reason for a player to ever go to 15.5% hit rating. It should always be 15% or a bit lower and that "a bit lower" is more dependent on what the individual player gains or loses.

I agree, I went just under 15% myself instead of just a little over
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Reforging has NOTHING to do with statistics and probability...

Their is no good reason for a player to ever go to 15.5% hit rating. It should always be 15% or a bit lower and that "a bit lower" is more dependent on what the individual player gains or loses.


Actually, it does. There are cases where it cannot be helped. Hence, why you would use a prediction interval so large. That way, you can generalize about 99% of mages without having pedantic spats like this. Oh wait.

Your confidence interval would, by definition, be much smaller. In general, it's perfectly acceptable.

Theoretical mean value: 15%
Prediction interval: (14.5-15.5)
Confidence interval: (14.9-15.1)

All to demonstrate to an inquiring player that 15% is the effective hit cap. Will you hit exactly 15%? Yes, there are specific instances where you can. They are few. Could you be over hit cap? Yes. There are specific instances. They are few. Will you be under hit cap? Yes. There are specific instances. This is where the majority of players are.

There are how many combinations of gear given the amount of slots we have? This should be pretty simple application of classical probability given the # of slots we have available that can have hit on them. Given all the possible combinations on any given mage (including ones gearing up), there will always be someone in the range mentioned that cannot actually reforge or regem yet still be over hit cap.

This.

Your response makes no sense, despite your attempts to sound intelligent. Losing 170 of a secondary stat due to being way over cap is simply laziness. I have no doubt there are people who run around like that, but the fact remains, there is no excuse. Your claim that 15.5% hit is acceptable is simply not true, at least for anyone who actually cares enough to look into the issue in the first place.


I'm sure you have the data to support your claim. I wonder how much DPS is lost with 15.5% hit chance. You say +170 of a secondary stat...that equates, roughly, to a 78 DPS loss. Yet you say this is unacceptable...yet mages do anywhere from 20k to 150k DPS. Thinking 78 DPS matters is, by definition, pedantic when you account for the scale. 78 DPS loss out of even 20k is so incredibly small that you would not notice it even if you were paying attention.

The original quote stated the websites should be recommending something within that range. What is a range of continuous values? Well, if you want to be safe, you take the theoretical mean and estimate about 3 StDs. in each direction to establish an accurate prediction interval that will capture the true population mean.

I do appreciate your compliment, though. Basic statistical principles normally are not employed to make a person sound intelligent.

Again, pedantry over remedial and insignificant gains and losses.
Edited by Hakuren on 2/17/2013 4:20 AM PST
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100 Troll Mage
17020
01/20/2013 12:38 AMPosted by Hakuren
By the way, an easy way to blow your argument out of the water without any use of mathematics: you're a mage LFR on the alliance side. You get in a group. Guess what race one of your party members is? Draenei. Now you have 15.85-16% hit. You're doing it wrong, according to you, and should have calculated for this. You're wasting good stat points that could be spent elsewhere now that you're over hit cap.


This does not exist... It used to exist but hasn't for I think since Wrath....

And for the rest of your post that doesn't matter.

These things do not affect whether someone should be reforging and wasting stats on hit. If you really wanted to get a range for yourself you would set its cap to 15 and the median somewhere below that.

Your argument may of been correct if we did not have hit gems or the ability to reforge 40% of a stat into a new one and having two separate stats to increase our hit rating with. But between those we have enough possibilities that hit should never go that high.

Reforging is based off of a person choosing how to reforge, not it just randomly picking reforges based off of hit capping.

Its completely obvious that you are either an idiot or a troll
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Your argument may of been correct if we did not have hit gems or the ability to reforge 40% of a stat into a new one and having two separate stats to increase our hit rating with. But between those we have enough possibilities that hit should never go that high.

Reforging is based off of a person choosing how to reforge, not it just randomly picking reforges based off of hit capping.

Its completely obvious that you are either an idiot or a troll


Again, incorrect. Reforging 40% of a stat still leaves that remaining stat, dear. To deny a situation where someone would not go over it is very poor form.

Which leads me to the following conclusion:

It's also completely obvious that you're not involved in anything related to the sciences or engineering. Absolutes are for people who cannot ascertain the ideal situations from the real world ones.
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90 Troll Mage
10625
Your argument may of been correct if we did not have hit gems or the ability to reforge 40% of a stat into a new one and having two separate stats to increase our hit rating with. But between those we have enough possibilities that hit should never go that high.

Reforging is based off of a person choosing how to reforge, not it just randomly picking reforges based off of hit capping.

Its completely obvious that you are either an idiot or a troll


Again, incorrect. Reforging 40% of a stat still leaves that remaining stat, dear. To deny a situation where someone would not go over it is very poor form.

Which leads me to the following conclusion:

It's also completely obvious that you're not involved in anything related to the sciences or engineering. Absolutes are for people who cannot ascertain the ideal situations from the real world ones.


Lol you attempt to demonstrate how smart you are in your bs posts and it only serves to further our point that your wrong. Losing 170 secondary stats isn't unacceptable because of the dps you gain, (which is way off btw) but because of how easy it is to avoid the situation. The Draenei example is hilarious and further illustrates the fact that you are simply wrong. It is acceptable to be very slightly over hit cap. .5% is too far and the demonstration of your knowledge of high school statistics is irrelevant for the purposes of this argument.
Edited by Methusulä on 1/20/2013 4:01 PM PST
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