Use of Noxxic, askmrrobot, etc...

Again, pedantry over remedial and insignificant gains and losses.


Hah, I missed this argument when it was going on but I just thought I should say...

Did you really just spend all that time trying to justify going that far over the hit cap?

And you accuse me of pedantry?


Isn't irony delicious. ;)

02/17/2013 07:58 AMPosted by Hiroran
No actually these support my argument versus hinder yours. Your argument is that its fine to be .5% over hit cap. My argument, like I quoted, was that your range was far too wide.


Bam. Right here we have the clearest example of just how bad your reading comprehension actually is.

Here's the original claim, Hiroran:

Hakuren:
MrRobot seems to almost always value mastery over haste for arcane. And many people seem to think Noxxic is trash.

15%(+-.5) hit cap is something both should be recommending, though.


The claim is that two programs will tell you something within this range. Whether I find it acceptable or not is another story and is actually irrelevant to the topic. Throughout this topic, my gear has changed. I've gone from AMR telling me to go over hit cap by .3% or under it by .4%.

Like I said: the programs take approximately 72 gear combinations for each slot into consideration for their 'upgrade' system. It is more than likely that any given random mage (especially those gearing up) will go to AMR and find that, due to the mage's current gear restraints, that he will only be able to choose a range within (14.5%,15.5%).

What you claim is that AMR's calculations are so precise that you will never find a gear combination where you cannot reforge, regem, or reenchant to be under 15.5% (and, in fact, 15% by your claim). Not only do you not understand how AMR's program is constructed, but you also claim to be superior to the program (you know, the one programmed to optimize) and can account for all of those possibilities.

Again, it's pretty simple: AMR and other programs will spit out a range of 14.5%-15.5% for any given mage. Mages that are just gearing up are especially prone to the outlier values of 14.5% and 15.5%. But saying these outlier values do not exist...well, like I said: pick another major. You're bound to get someone killed.
Edited by Hakuren on 2/17/2013 9:48 PM PST
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90 Undead Mage
10880
*popcorn*

I would like to add my 2cents here.

Every time i have used AMR or Noxxic or anything that tells me to reforge .5% over or under the hit rating I ignore the data and go with my gut feeling to get as close to 15% as i can. But given that, most times my gear has either too much hit on it that I have to reforge to a lower lvl and this has generally placed me within 0.1-0.5 OVER the hit cap otherwise i would be under by 1% if I reforged more. So all this arguing about the ACCEPTABLE range for hit cap is pointless when the MAIN OP asked about reforging and hit cap and why expertise is used.

As a mage community we are losing site of helping each other, instead we have taken it on to try and prove everyone is wrong even in real life.

If the person makes a mistake in Real Life outside of WoW, sever consequences happen. IE if that Aeronautical engineer makes a mistake and a life is forfeit then his head will roll and he loses his job. Don't try to correct stubbornness as it leads to more stubbornness. Though that statement is a contradiction in itself....funny that.
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MVP
90 Human Mage
10015
What the everloving frak?
________________________________________________
Find answers to questions about Mage mechanics in
Lhivera’s Compendium • http://lhiveras-library.com/compendium
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100 Worgen Mage
18770
What the everloving frak?
________________________________________________
Find answers to questions about Mage mechanics in
Lhivera’s Compendium • http://lhiveras-library.com/compendium


My thoughts exactly
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*popcorn*

I would like to add my 2cents here.

Every time i have used AMR or Noxxic or anything that tells me to reforge .5% over or under the hit rating I ignore the data and go with my gut feeling to get as close to 15% as i can. But given that, most times my gear has either too much hit on it that I have to reforge to a lower lvl and this has generally placed me within 0.1-0.5 OVER the hit cap otherwise i would be under by 1% if I reforged more. So all this arguing about the ACCEPTABLE range for hit cap is pointless when the MAIN OP asked about reforging and hit cap and why expertise is used.


Let's look at the OP's statement:

I use both sites. In fact, Noxxic refers folks to askmrrobot for reforging advice. My problem is that the advice that mrrobot gives does not always match the things that Noxxic suggests: 15% hit cap for one. Plus, mrrobot keeps wanting me to change from haste to expertise in many cases. Based on all I read, this doesn't make sense as expertise is more aimed at melee dpsers. So, long story short, do you use askmrrobot? Do you find one source, such as Noxxic and stick with that? How exactly do you make your decisions on reforging stats?

Thanks in advance for any advice.


The OP asked about expertise. I told him/her that there was a change where expertise worked for spell hit now. First question out of the way.

The OP asked about the discrepancies between the two programs (implied: they didn't agree on the 15% hit cap). I told the OP that each program should be recommending a hit cap % within a certain range and, as long as you're in that range, you'll be ok.

This is kind of the point. Some situations give you too much hit or too little and you find yourself short of the 15% hit ideal cap. There is no argument that having over 15% hit is a DPS loss (minimal at that). However, this is why I stated AMR would spit out a value in my prediction interval's range. I don't know every possible gear combination so I picked a large interval to make sure I covered everyone. In fact, my main post addressed all of the OP's questions.

What ensued, though, was nitpicking at this interval's range. It is quite pointless and really detracted from the OP's original question.

02/17/2013 10:32 PMPosted by Mokrâh
As a mage community we are losing site of helping each other, instead we have taken it on to try and prove everyone is wrong even in real life.


I'm afraid to have to inform you but the mage forums have almost never been helpful to new players...especially the ones gearing up. I compiled a list of links during the WotLK era for common questions we'd get typically asked but the trend didn't stick.

02/17/2013 10:32 PMPosted by Mokrâh
If the person makes a mistake in Real Life outside of WoW, sever consequences happen. IE if that Aeronautical engineer makes a mistake and a life is forfeit then his head will roll and he loses his job. Don't try to correct stubbornness as it leads to more stubbornness. Though that statement is a contradiction in itself....funny that.


When you have a point that you are willing to defend, why shouldn't you? If the mage community wishes to become pedantic, why not just beat them over the head with facts until it sinks in?

We are playing a game, yes...but our decisions in this game often reflect the types of decisions we make in real life. I personally do not want an aspiring engineer to think that a blown up range is unacceptable because that very same blown up range is most likely what he'll be reporting to his boss in the end.

The maximum amount of stress for a material is given until it breaks. Are you going to use that exact value in your calculations when designing something that uses that material? No. You are going to play it safe /always/ and multiply that rating by at least 10~20% its base value to obtain a range that should be used.

Same concept. I know my mage never goes over .3% hit in either direction but, for the OP's sake, it's best to include a scenario in which the OP might discover that he is .5% over/under the hit cap, exclusive. The OP had questions about the hit cap at 15% and saw discrepancies in the programs. Indeed, the mean value of my given range is 15%. Was I sure that all mages fit in this category? Was I sure mages all fit within the (14.95,15.05) category? No not at all. But I was certain that all mages fall within the (14.5,15.5) category.

Really a moot point.
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91 Worgen Death Knight
12760
As I recollect, Mr. Robot was more willing to put you above hit cap during Cata than he is now; I think he may have gotten religion that the points above cap are 100% always wasted vs. a tiny chance of missing with a spell, because now he will almost never put my mage above cap (or if above, only by fewer than 10 points or so, and certainly not at 16-18%).

But for real life purposes, we're still talking about ridiculously small impacts. If getting from 15.01% down to 14.99% means completely regemming and reforging, only the most obsessive would bother. If the .01% chance of missing is trivial on the bottom end, the impact of the wasted stats on the high end is in all likelihood trivial as well.
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